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Thread: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

  1. #1
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    Default Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    So Denise030 asked if I was going to document my Guillemot build. I'm not a very public person and am quite an antisocial social media user, so publicly documenting this gives me a "walking naked down the street" feeling... I'm sure there are and will be many things I get wrong. Many obvious routes to success will be missed and silly mistakes made. Hopefully people will be kind and developmental and patient. I don't know how long this will take, but having been sailing on Windermere last week and seen a beautiful little clinker built dinghy out on the water, I'm itching to get cracking.

    I've bugged a number of you over the last months. At first it was "should I build a Melonseed?" Then came the "can I use my dad's old aluminium mast on a melonseed?" question. Finally I discovered Iain Oughtred's designs. I convinced myself I could fit a Tammie Norrie in the garage and then saw sense and decided to jump in and go for the Guillemot instead.

    So I bought the plans directly from Iain and they're every bit as beautiful as people had told me they'd be. And, to a beginner like me, every bit as baffling as I expected! I'd helped my dad build a Mirror dinghy as a teenager (hence the aluminium mast question) and remembered that being pretty straightforward, so to see some real plans was a wake up call...

    As I am a bit tight on space, I decided to start with parts that could be hung up out of the way. That meant jumping in to the spars and rudder and centreboard.

    I found some Douglas Fir in a local timber yard and, having watched a bzillion videos of what to do (Marcus Lewis and Paul Sellers and Louis Sauzedde mainly) set to with a plane in my hand for the first time in probably 25 years. I'm quite pleased with my work, although the foot of the mast somehow ended up not quite round and the tapers don't stand up to too close scrutiny. As I don't really know how good is good enough, I'm going with as good as my skill will allow will have to do. I'm sure I'll be remaking things a lot as I move along!







    One of the sets of parts that caused me much head scratching were the jaws for the boom and yard. I had my own ideas, but then was handed (electronically) a set of drawings by Jim Ledger to produce jaws properly. I laminated some European oak and scratched my head before cutting out the tricky 3D shapes and then shaping and rasping and sanding until I got something that looked decent. At first, I was going to glue and screw the jaws on, but then decided to learn how to copper rivet. I couldn't find copper nails long enough to go through the spars and the jaws, so bought some copper rod and roves. After work hardening the middle of the copper rod and somehow managing to get all the holes to line up, I glued and riveted the jaws on. Again, the riveting might not pass close inspection, but I'm pleased with it and have my fingers crossed.









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    After the spars, I turned to the rudder and centreboard. One thing I've found is that there are many many ways of doing almost everything and I pondered for a long time over how to proceed. In the end, I opted for laminated Sapele. A different timber yard this time. Lots of advice from people on here and some more amateurish planing later, I have a rudder blade and centreboard partly completed. I still need to drill and paint the centreboard and make up the "non-raising" bits of the rudder (cheeks?).







    Next weekend, I'm going to pick up some CNC cut planks from Alec at Jordan Boats in Somerset. He's been very helpful and I hope that having pre-cut planks will help a lot. Especially in my slightly tight building space. Anyway, I needed to bite the bullet and build the building frame. Iain suggests a big 1/2" ply coffin. I couldn't get 1/2" ply (must be a high demand coffin week) so went for 3/4" instead. I miscalculated a few dimensions so it's not perfect, but I now have a square and level and rollable 12' long building frame. It seems heavy duty and pretty damn rigid, so hopefully it'll prove to be a substantial and solid foundation for the boat. Fingers crossed.





    So that's where I am for now. It feels like things are going along well (thanks to all those who've helped with advice) but work is so busy I have really only managed a few snuck hours here and there, so progress also feels irritatingly slow. I'll keep updating this thread as thing happen and when questions occur to me.


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    Oh, I made a little cleat too. 😁



    It turns out the cleat drawings in Iain's book shrank in the wash... 😆


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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Very nice work! Keep the photos comin'...
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Cool beans RC! I was asking you if you were going to build the boat per the specifications on the plan. But seeing this proves you have understated your webmaster abilities! Great photos!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Thanks both... All done with an iPhone...! 😁

    I have a question about the apron/inner stem...

    I think I'm probably going to find life easier to glue planks together rather than laminate. I don't have the equipment...

    Having spent an hour or so with the plans, it seems the keelson stock is the same dimensions (siding and moulding) as those Iain suggests for the apron. It lays out ok, so I reckon it must be alright. Butttt.... Overlapping the joints in the planks only gives a finished overlap area about 3" ish long. I suppose what I mean is that the joint between planks on one side will be about 3" max from the joint on the other side. At the inner face, it's only 1/2". Hopefully the photo makes some sense of what I mean.

    I'm not sure it's going to really matter when it's lathered up with epoxy, but it is a reasonably important bit to get right. Assuming my previous thoughts of crooks and laminations don't come to pass, would this layout of overlapping planks be ok?



    Thanks for your help...! 😁


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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Quote Originally Posted by Racundra View Post
    Thanks both... All done with an iPhone...! 

    I have a question about the apron/inner stem...

    I think I'm probably going to find life easier to glue planks together rather than laminate. I don't have the equipment...

    Having spent an hour or so with the plans, it seems the keelson stock is the same dimensions (siding and moulding) as those Iain suggests for the apron. It lays out ok, so I reckon it must be alright. Butttt.... Overlapping the joints in the planks only gives a finished overlap area about 3" ish long. I suppose what I mean is that the joint between planks on one side will be about 3" max from the joint on the other side. At the inner face, it's only 1/2". Hopefully the photo makes some sense of what I mean.

    I'm not sure it's going to really matter when it's lathered up with epoxy, but it is a reasonably important bit to get right. Assuming my previous thoughts of crooks and laminations don't come to pass, would this layout of overlapping planks be ok?



    Thanks for your help...! 


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    Are you saying you do not have a table saw? Looking at your stem drawing reminds me to get cracking on making them for my Ducker.. something I don't have to do out in the heat and sun.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Are you saying you do not have a table saw? Looking at your stem drawing reminds me to get cracking on making them for my Ducker.. something I don't have to do out in the heat and sun.


    Erm, nope. I have a saw and a table though... I could probably get access to a table saw...


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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Interesting.. but looking at some of the work you have been producing by (only?) hand tools is quite inspiring. I have an complete, but mostly unused shop with all the machines old and new. It's been near impossible to re-motivate myself since my son is gone from the whole scheme of things. Lately been cranking stuff our on the wood lathe but would still rather be wooden boat anything.

    When I was a shop volunteer in the Phila pa boat museum I saw a few boats built entirely with hand tools. and the shop machines gathered dust.

    Carry on!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Interesting.. but looking at some of the work you have been producing by (only?) hand tools is quite inspiring. I have an complete, but mostly unused shop with all the machines old and new. It's been near impossible to re-motivate myself since my son is gone from the whole scheme of things. Lately been cranking stuff our on the wood lathe but would still rather be wooden boat anything.

    When I was a shop volunteer in the Phila pa boat museum I saw a few boats built entirely with hand tools. and the shop machines gathered dust.

    Carry on!


    Haha! Well cutting those oak jaws using a coping saw was tedious and tricky work... watching people online using electric tools makes things look easy. Easy to screw up too of course!


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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Do you have "Clinker Plywood Boatbuilding Manual?" Iain's book?

    I'm not sure I understand the question. There is an inner stem (apron) which gets bevelled to accept the planks, then after planking you attach an outer stem, like in the bird's eye view in the drawing above. The thickness of the apron blank should be the thickness of the aft end of the finished piece.

    I laminated mine for my Whilly boat, but have since done the overlapping straight pieces to make up a blank for my current build. That one was three layers of 3/4" Doug fir.

    The stuff you've done so far looks great!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    Do you have "Clinker Plywood Boatbuilding Manual?" Iain's book?

    I'm not sure I understand the question. There is an inner stem (apron) which gets bevelled to accept the planks, then after planking you attach an outer stem, like in the bird's eye view in the drawing above. The thickness of the apron blank should be the thickness of the aft end of the finished piece.

    I laminated mine for my Whilly boat, but have since done the overlapping straight pieces to make up a blank for my current build. That one was three layers of 3/4" Doug fir.

    The stuff you've done so far looks great!

    Mike


    Thanks Mike! 😊

    I'm planning on splitting the apron in half, with the joins offset on each half. Iain does describe this in his book. What I'm unsure of is whether the relative positions of the joins on the left and right of the boat matters so long as they don't fall in the same place. The red and blue on that image show where the two pieces would fall. On one side the join would be on the top of the red piece and on the other it'd be at the left edge of the blue piece. The joins will be offset, but not by much... it's the distance of this offset that concerns me...

    Thanks


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    Ok, so I spoke to the timber yard today and DF isn't available. Iroko has been suggested for the transom, keelson/hog and apron/stem. I think I'm going to be a grown up and laminate the apron/stem after all. My question is therefore: is iroko ok for those parts?

    Thanks


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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Your workmanship so far is excellent. I've no doubt this boat will come out just fine. Carry on!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Your workmanship so far is excellent. I've no doubt this boat will come out just fine. Carry on!


    Very kind Rich. Thank you! 😊


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    So I've been practising planing 40mm scarfs in some scrap okume 6mm ply... a few dodgy mishaps but the last couple of attempts went quite well (I think...).

    You have to focus quite hard on not planing off the edge on the bottom piece at the same time as not planing back beyond the "mark" for the end of the scarf of the top piece...

    Assuming there isn't enough scrap ply in the world for me to practise enough to aim for a bright-finished boat, how good is "good enough" for a scarf joint?

    This is what I've got so far:

    Attempt 1 - lost edge of bottom piece.



    Attempt 2 - bit of drift back over the line on the top piece.



    You can see the widths of each ply isn't matched on its opposite half. Does this matter? (Is this what thickened epoxy will take care of?)



    Thanks (again...!)


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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    That last one should be ok.Why don't you glue it and show us how it turns out?I find an offcut of melamine faced chipboard is pretty good at spreading the force and ensuring a flat surface.The other part of the battle is to ensure the sections don't skid around.

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    So I think more practice is needed... From one side, the joint is pretty smooth - I can only just feel it. From the other side, there's a 1/16" gap/dip at the joint where I must have drifted back from the line when I was planing. I imagine it'd fill pretty well and end up invisible if I paint it, but does it matter structurally?

    Here are a few shots:

    1. Pretty level and smooth:


    2. Not all that visible either:


    3. But the other side has a dip:


    4. And it's fair to say it's quite visible:


    Thanks for all comments... 😮


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    It's been a while since I posted anything. Almost a month. Interruptions for holidays and family weddings... but I've scarfed a LOT of plywood - I wouldn't say I was good at it, but it is acceptable and will vanish under a good layer of paint... 😐

    I've made up the transom from three pieces of iroko, biscuit jointed, so hopefully going nowhere... I was a bit keen on the making side of things, so only have a photo of the "almost-finished" transom:



    I haven't decided whether to finish the "top shape" yet - I've read different thoughts on that. I 'think' it'll be easier to do when it isn't part of a boat, but I'd appreciate your thoughts...

    Steaming ahead over recent days, I've laminated the apron/inner stem. The pieces are 1/8" iroko, table sawn by a local joiner (who seemed totally unimpressed that he was helping make a boat, and not just another staircase...). I managed to snap one piece while doing a trial bend around my jig, so decided to steam the pieces first. I borrowed my sister's wallpaper stripper and set to, with an offcut of soil pipe I had kicking around.

    Trial bend with springy random piece of wood from an old Venetian blind:



    Steaming:



    (After setting up the "steam box" I had to go and stop my kids from flooding the house (they were in the bath!), so turned my back for about 15 minutes. When I came back out, the soil pipe was almost folded in half - the steam had made it rather soft! I was so shocked, I forgot to take a photo!)

    Steamed strips clamped up:



    Polythene sheeting in place:



    Final clamping, all glued up:



    I found the laminating quite stressful... I ended up having to make 2 batches and my resin pump chose today to go on a go-slow. It suddenly started to take TWO minutes for the pump to return to the top! I kid you not... It all went well in the end though despite my concerns about the time it was taking and just how horribly gooey it was. It's sitting going off as I type... The thought of laminating the thicker outer stem fills me with joyful anticipation...

    Anyway, more news as it breaks... I'd be grateful if your thoughts on whether to shape the top of the transom now or leave it till the boat is turned over...

    Thanks.


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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Re: transom top curve. I have built 2 boats about this size range. I cut the first one off the boat and the second one on the boat. I find that it is easier to get a curve that pleases your eye once it's part of the boat.
    Alex

    "A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn't. We do be afraid of the sea, and we only be drowned now and again" Aran Islands Fisherman

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJZimm View Post
    Re: transom top curve. I have built 2 boats about this size range. I cut the first one off the boat and the second one on the boat. I find that it is easier to get a curve that pleases your eye once it's part of the boat.


    OK, thanks for that. I was just concerned about it not being flat down when I cut it...


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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Good thread. Thanks.
    Do you use a digital scale for measuring epoxy? I find its much easier to mix small batches with a scale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by photocurio View Post
    Good thread. Thanks.
    Do you use a digital scale for measuring epoxy? I find its much easier to mix small batches with a scale.


    That sounds like a good plan. I think I've wasted quite a bit so far with having to make pump-full multiples... do you use a particularly sensitive set of scales, or just borrow from the kitchen when a cake isn't being made?

    I'm laminating the outer stem tomorrow, so I think that'll be another slippery mess of a job, with PLENTY of epoxy to be used. I think I used 8 pumps-worth to do the apron, and the stem is thicker, so will probably need at least 10.


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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    You're doing great work! Starting with the spars scares me to death! (Well, maybe just to want to barf!) Maybe it's the whole make something round with a flat plane thing. But as I tell my son, there's nothing that you can't fix, just might cost more! I might feel differently once I actually start to build too. Haven't decided if I want to try a solid mast or a hollow mast...still time to think about that. But great job on yours!

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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Hi, just stumbled on this thread. Your work looks perfectly adequate! Great in fact. Give yourself a big pat on the back and get on with it. The scarfs look strong, it is a bit tricky to get them perfect. Try breaking one of those test pieces, I suspect it won't break at the glue line. Small digital scales are perfect for measuring epoxy. If you use them sealed in a zip lock bag the marriage should be OK too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenStocker View Post
    You're doing great work! Starting with the spars scares me to death! (Well, maybe just to want to barf!) Maybe it's the whole make something round with a flat plane thing. But as I tell my son, there's nothing that you can't fix, just might cost more! I might feel differently once I actually start to build too. Haven't decided if I want to try a solid mast or a hollow mast...still time to think about that. But great job on yours!


    Thanks Ken! I'm learning something new every time I pick up a piece of wood!! I enjoyed making the spars. They (like some other parts) aren't perfect, but they'll do, and only I know where to look for the mistakes! (Hopefully they don't stand out like a sore thumb!)


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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Quote Originally Posted by Racundra View Post
    Thanks Ken! I'm learning something new every time I pick up a piece of wood!! I enjoyed making the spars. They (like some other parts) aren't perfect, but they'll do, and only I know where to look for the mistakes! (Hopefully they don't stand out like a sore thumb!)


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    They never are that noticeable, we're just our own worst critics!

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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    I bought a little digital kitchen scale for the shop. I'm building a 12' Laita pram.

    I printed out this sheet from Duckworks, which gives the correct weight of resin and hardener, and posted it in the shop. Saves a lot of time. The sheet is correct for epoxies that have a 2:1 ratio by volume.

    I rarely mix more than a double pump. One push of the pump squeezes out 30g of resin. For some jobs I mix a lot of small batches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Racundra View Post
    That sounds like a good plan. I think I've wasted quite a bit so far with having to make pump-full multiples... do you use a particularly sensitive set of scales, or just borrow from the kitchen when a cake isn't being made?

    I'm laminating the outer stem tomorrow, so I think that'll be another slippery mess of a job, with PLENTY of epoxy to be used. I think I used 8 pumps-worth to do the apron, and the stem is thicker, so will probably need at least 10.


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    p.s. I'm relieved to hear you are laminating the stem. That just seems so much more solid than the built up piece. You never know, you might bump your boat into something someday, like a rock, and be glad you have a strong stem.
    Last edited by photocurio; 08-22-2017 at 08:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    I use syringes for smaller quantities of epoxy.
    If you do use scales, weigh a pumpsworth of resin and of hardener to check the ratio for the particular system you are using.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by photocurio View Post
    I bought a little digital kitchen scale for the shop. I'm building a 12' Laita pram.

    I printed out this sheet from Duckworks, which gives the correct weight of resin and hardener, and posted it in the shop. Saves a lot of time. The sheet is correct for epoxies that have a 2:1 ratio by volume.

    I rarely mix more than a double pump. One push of the pump squeezes out 30g of resin. For some jobs I mix a lot of small batches.


    p.s. I'm relieved to hear you are laminating the stem. That just seems so much more solid than the built up piece. You never know, you might bump your boat into something someday, like a rock, and be glad you have a strong stem.


    Yes, it's pretty messy, but I'm pleased with the inner stem. Just waiting for the pieces to dry properly after steaming so I can glue up the outer stem.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Hi, just stumbled on this thread. Your work looks perfectly adequate! Great in fact. Give yourself a big pat on the back and get on with it. The scarfs look strong, it is a bit tricky to get them perfect. Try breaking one of those test pieces, I suspect it won't break at the glue line. Small digital scales are perfect for measuring epoxy. If you use them sealed in a zip lock bag the marriage should be OK too.


    Hi Phil!

    Thanks for your kind words....! And good advice on the kitchen scales front too!

    The scarfs seem good enough, I think. A test piece I destroyed did as you said and broke the wood elsewhere, rather than the join itself...


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  32. #32
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    Just be thinking more about gluing... What are your thoughts on using a waterproof polyurethane glue as well as epoxy? I've watched and read about boatbuilders using it, so perhaps for some jobs it might be easier?


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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Quote Originally Posted by Racundra View Post
    Steaming:


    pipe was almost folded in half - the steam had made it rather soft!
    yes - been there - you're not alone
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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Quote Originally Posted by Racundra View Post



    I never get tired of these transformations.
    Rudder looks beautiful. Its screaming out to be finished bright.
    Nice even radius on the top - by hand!
    Why is 'Politically Approved' speech better than 'Politically Correct' speech?

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    Default Re: Land-locked Yorkshire Guillemot

    Nice rudder! Pardon the ignorance, but if you glass it, will it appear to look as if finished bright? I have obviously absolutely no experience with glass.
    I agree with gypsie, it begs for that look!

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