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Thread: Why would any American

  1. #106
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Statistically speaking, not any more stupider than the run of the mill human.
    However you do seem to have a knack for electing them into all sorts of important jobs.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  2. #107
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Statistically speaking, not any more stupider than the run of the mill human.

    As a nation, though, we have been led to believe that Capitalism is enshrined in the Constitution, and that Money has Divine Right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    However you do seem to have a knack for electing them into all sorts of important jobs.
    Your response makes no sense without considering the second sentence of my assertion.
    Rattling the teacups.

  3. #108
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    For anything minor I would my credit card. For anything major I would use my savings.

    In either case I would not ask you to pay for my care.
    The idea of savings is fascinating. I haven't had the luxury of such a thing for 74.6666 years now.

    Kinda like the idea of keeping one's doctor. Having a doctor by itself would be an interesting experience. Even on Medicare I don't have a doctor, I have a rotating group of them at the local health center.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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  4. #109
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Your response makes no sense without considering the second sentence of my assertion.
    Two separate problems, linked by the same ignorance and stupidity.
    Taxes for the General Welfare are bad, and capitalism is enshrined in the constitution, both the beliefs of the stupid.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #110
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    The idea of savings is fascinating. I haven't had the luxury of such a thing for 74.6666 years now.

    Kinda like the idea of keeping one's doctor. Having a doctor by itself would be an interesting experience. Even on Medicare I don't have a doctor, I have a rotating group of them at the local health center.
    I am not sure what these people want.

    I have offered up several plans. The last plan was very generous. The bottom 50% get free healthcare, anyone in the top 50% can join a government plan with premiums based on income and protection from falling below the median.

    No. I know what they want. They want someone else to pay for their healthcare.
    Life is complex.

  6. #111
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I am not sure what these people want.

    I have offered up several plans. The last plan was very generous. The bottom 50% get free healthcare, anyone in the top 50% can join a government plan with premiums based on income and protection from falling below the median.

    No. I know what they want. They want someone else to pay for their healthcare.
    And you have been told that it has as much chance of flying as a lead budgie. Why reinvent the wheel? Progressive taxation like ours works, it ain't broke, so don't fix it.

    Or is your debating strategy to put up something that does not sound quite as stupid as it really is, and when no one buys it say I told you so, no one wants single payer?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  7. #112
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I am not sure what these people want.

    I have offered up several plans. The last plan was very generous. The bottom 50% get free healthcare, anyone in the top 50% can join a government plan with premiums based on income and protection from falling below the median.

    No. I know what they want. They want someone else to pay for their healthcare.
    Rattling the teacups.

  8. #113
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    And you have been told that it has as much chance of flying as a lead budgie. Why reinvent the wheel? Progressive taxation like ours works, it ain't broke, so don't fix it.

    Or is your debating strategy to put up something that does not sound quite as stupid as it really is, and when no one buys it say I told you so, no one wants single payer?
    There is no chance of what people post here being passed. And neither the ACA nor any proposed single payer plan is financed by a progressive tax. Your comments seem to apply to a broad swath of comments on this subject.

    In the past I have said I could support single payer, but it needs the proper tax structure. No one seems to provide a tax structure that protects the poor.

    The issue is not about single payer. The issue is as I said early on about who is paying for healthcare. As I said the people who want single payer really want their personal healthcare costs - real of imagined, reduced.

    You can sleep peacefully. It appears we will have the ACA for a while.
    Life is complex.

  9. #114
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Progressive taxation like ours works
    I don't follow news sources in the UK so I don't know the validity of the following link. But it does seem to indicate a regressive tax system. (I have been unable to unravel the healthcare taxes enough to comment on them.)

    http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2...ate-in-the-uk/
    Life is complex.

  10. #115

    Default Re: Why would any American

    ". . the people who want single payer really want their personal healthcare costs - real of imagined, reduced."

    Well of course we do, and that is the major benefit to single payer - collectively, we would save around $ 600 BILLION PER YEAR, more than enough to insure
    everyone with billions left over. I think the issue is that you don't grasp the magnitude of the rip-off.

    As one of my favorite pols likes to say, "We in the US are already paying for universal health care. We're just not getting it."

  11. #116
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post

    Even on Medicare I don't have a doctor, I have a rotating group of them at the local health center.
    That seems unusual. Does your county lack a variety of plans? I think you're saying that you would prefer to have one specific primary care doctor who you would always see, and who would refer you to specialists as necessary? I would guess that is the situation most people have and prefer with Medicare, but you don't have that? Surely there are a number of plans available in your area that would provide you with one primary care physician? No?

    Very often there are no fee, no obligation, insurance brokers who can provide detailed info on all Medicare plans available in one's specific county. My wife and I found a no fee insurance agent and really exercise her on plan details, we've changed plans three times in 5 years, always keeping the same primary care doctor in the same clinic. It's worked well.

    We change plans for a variety of reasons - lower drug costs, lower co-pays, access to specialists, etc., care has been consistently good throughout. When we first started on Medicare I thought the details were unnecessarily complicated and ridiculous, and it irritated me that I had to sort them out to my best advantage. Now I just spend a couple of days a year evaluating changes for the new year, then I take my spread sheet to the no fee broker, verify my assumptions (or not) and select the best available plan.

    It would be nice if government would just say "here it is, the best plan, and it's yours and everyone else's too." I could go for that. Concierge medical care would always be available for the wealthy if the "best" plan didn't suit them.

  12. #117
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    As one of my favorite pols likes to say, "We in the US are already paying for universal health care. We're just not getting it."
    I may be getting tedious and repetitive, but we're already paying twice as much as every other developed country, and they all have universal heath care.
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    https://www.healthcarebluebook.com/p...umerFront.aspx

    https://www.healthcarebluebook.com/p...+Tumor+Removal

    That's 'the range' for brain tumor - and I have no idea if it bears any resemblance to 'reality'. But that's the tip of the iceberg- there's all those other lil' expenses, to follow - cost of the surgical suite (pick a number, then add 2 zeros); all the supplies, unbundled of course. Medications, at inflated prices; recovery; and then.... if malignant.... chemotherapy and/or radiation.

    AFA 'every dr. taking a 50% cut' - no. I imagine there'd be some drop in income, but not that drastic. With single payer, the hassle factor/cost of administration would drop remarkably, likely off-setting much of that loss of income. FWIW, the AMA, and most Drs. I know, support Single Payer. The insurance companies would be 'hurt'; the hospitals and pharma companies, too, if we are on the ball. As of now - they have a license to steal.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  14. #119
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    ". . the people who want single payer really want their personal healthcare costs - real of imagined, reduced."

    Well of course we do, and that is the major benefit to single payer - collectively, we would save around $ 600 BILLION PER YEAR, more than enough to insure
    everyone with billions left over. I think the issue is that you don't grasp the magnitude of the rip-off.

    As one of my favorite pols likes to say, "We in the US are already paying for universal health care. We're just not getting it."
    I understand the claim. I don't believe the savings will be that much. I believe the poor will get a much worse deal than the rich.
    Life is complex.

  15. #120
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    That seems unusual. Does your county lack a variety of plans? I think you're saying that you would prefer to have one specific primary care doctor who you would always see, and who would refer you to specialists as necessary?
    Medicare Advantage plans take on the responsibilities of Medicare. They are usually PPOs or HMOs where you get what you get.

    I have just Medicare and have a doctor who shares space with other doctors. If my doctor is not available, I have the option of waiting or having one of the other doctors see me. So many issues are really choices that individuals make.
    Life is complex.

  16. #121
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    https://www.healthcarebluebook.com/p...umerFront.aspx

    https://www.healthcarebluebook.com/p...+Tumor+Removal

    That's 'the range' for brain tumor - and I have no idea if it bears any resemblance to 'reality'. But that's the tip of the iceberg- there's all those other lil' expenses, to follow - cost of the surgical suite (pick a number, then add 2 zeros); all the supplies, unbundled of course. Medications, at inflated prices; recovery; and then.... if malignant.... chemotherapy and/or radiation.

    AFA 'every dr. taking a 50% cut' - no. I imagine there'd be some drop in income, but not that drastic. With single payer, the hassle factor/cost of administration would drop remarkably, likely off-setting much of that loss of income. FWIW, the AMA, and most Drs. I know, support Single Payer. The insurance companies would be 'hurt'; the hospitals and pharma companies, too, if we are on the ball. As of now - they have a license to steal.
    Even without looking at your links I can safely say those are costs that most - over 85%, are not going to experience. You can look up the distribution of costs on the internet. The 99.5% level was under $100K last time I looked.

    But as I have said, the government can help out by paying all costs for people with incomes below the median. You might compare that to the assets and income limits on Medicaid. I am being a lot more generous to the rich and middle class than the government has been to the poor.
    Life is complex.

  17. #122
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I understand the claim. I don't believe the savings will be that much. I believe the poor will get a much worse deal than the rich.
    This is idiotic. It's not like we can't look at other countries and see what they spend and what results they get. There are facts to study.

    Kind of like raising minimum wage: we can compare states that did to states and didn't and KNOW how they've done.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

  18. #123
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    This is an old chart, but I imagine income has remained proportionally similar country to country. It looks lke U.S. general practitioners might take some salary cuts under single payer.


    Average Compensation in U.S. Dollar Purchasing Power

    Comparing Specialists’ and General Practitioners’ Incomes Across Countries

    Source: Congressional Research Service (CRS) analysis of Remuneration of Health Professions, Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) Health Data 2006, October 2006.

  19. #124

    Default Re: Why would any American

    And that is your reason to deny HC access to the poor?

    Idiotic indeed . .


    Originally Posted by Too Little Time

    I believe the poor will get a much worse deal than the rich.

  20. #125

    Default Re: Why would any American

    It is pretty disingenuous for you not to include Ins Co profits and admin fees

    Not to mention $ 350 BILLION per year in excess profits to Big Pharma

    That is where the big savings are to be found.

  21. #126
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    This is an old chart, but I imagine income has remained proportionally similar country to country. It looks lke U.S. general practitioners might take some salary cuts under single payer.


    Average Compensation in U.S. Dollar Purchasing Power

    Comparing Specialists’ and General Practitioners’ Incomes Across Countries

    Source: Congressional Research Service (CRS) analysis of Remuneration of Health Professions, Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) Health Data 2006, October 2006.
    Possibly, but they'd not need a staff to deal with multiple insurance companies.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

  22. #127
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    not want every American to have really good healthcare?
    It's not the technical details or the expense, which are weighty considerations but not reasons. It's moral, which is to say, racial and tribal. Americans are not equally deserving, in Red eyes, and that's the reason. Capable of overcoming even rational self-interest. Another case of what's wrong with Kansas.

    Senator in a hot seat in Arizona

    By Mark Z. Barabak
    Los Angeles Times 7/17/17

    SNOWFLAKE, Ariz. — Ron McArthur is a man with big plans.

    As head of the chief medical provider in this rural slice of eastern Arizona, McArthur firmly believes what’s good for Summit Healthcare is good for communities tucked in the foothills of the White Mountains. “We’re the economic engine,” he said. “We sponsor everything, we’re the biggest employer, we offer the highest-paying jobs.”
    But right now, he said, a proposed surgery center and other expansion plans are imperiled by Republican efforts to drastically overhaul the nation’s healthcare system, leaving the state’s GOP lawmakers to choose, as McArthur sees it, between party loyalty and their hard-pressed constituents.

    Snowflake Mayor Lynn Johnson is one of those constituents.

    He runs a physical therapy practice that has suffered, he said, a double whammy under the healthcare law signed by President Obama. Johnson receives less for each patient he treats under Medicare and Medicaid and pays more to insure his employees.

    “You used to be able to make a decent living,” Johnson said. “Now you’re fighting for everything you get.”

    All of which leaves Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona in a tough spot.

    McArthur wants to preserve the Affordable Care Act, which cut nearly in half the tens of millions of dollars Summit lost each year treating uninsured patients. Johnson wants the law repealed and, in time, replaced with a less costly and intrusive alternative.

    With legislation in the Senate in serious jeopardy — just one more Republican defection could scuttle the effort — the dilemma facing Flake is acute.
    Bidding for a second term, he is one of only two GOP senators from swing states facing reelection in 2018, when healthcare is once more likely to be a key issue. Unlike the other Republican at risk — Nevada’s Dean Heller, who has harshly criticized the Senate plan — Flake has been studiously opaque.
    Perhaps that’s because whatever he does, a great number of people will be very unhappy.
    Arizona’s senior senator, Republican John McCain, has expressed strong reservations about the GOP plan, which would deeply cut federal assistance to low- and moderate-income Americans. (A vote planned for this week was abruptly canceled after McCain underwent surgery Friday to remove a blood clot above his left eye.)
    Republican Gov. Doug Ducey, the state Chamber of Commerce and the Arizona Hospital and Healthcare Assn. — not a wild-eyed radical in the bunch — have stated their opposition.

    There are problems with soaring premiums and insurers abandoning Arizona’s healthcare market, said Greg Vigdor, head of the association, but the legislation doesn’t really address those concerns. “It’s a political bill,” he said, “more about tax cuts than health policy.”

    At the same time, Flake is being attacked by some Republicans for insufficient fealty to President Trump — he was an outspoken critic in 2016 — and inadequate resolve to repeal and replace Obamacare, which has been the fuel stoking GOP passions for the better part of a decade.

    He has already drawn one primary opponent — former state Sen. Kelli Ward, who ran against McCain last year — with the prospect of other Trump acolytes jumping in. “He is providing sanctuary to Obamacare,” Ward wrote on her campaign website. “He’s simply too weak to lead.”
    Flake has kept both sides guessing.

    He joined more moderate Republicans voicing concern about Medicaid cuts, which could have a huge effect on Arizona; about 1 million people in the state receive care through the program for the poor, the disabled and nursing home residents. He also endorsed a proposal, aimed at luring conservative support, to allow insurers to sell low-cost, bare-bones policies.

    The ultimate decision on passage of the Senate bill will rest on two principles, Flake said in a statement issued this month as protesters occupied his Phoenix office.
    “The first is that the legislation needs to ensure that those who currently have coverage do not have the rug pulled out from under them,” Flake said. “The second is that the Senate must agree on a solution that is fiscally sustainable.”

    Snowflake, set amid the open sky and vast emptiness of the high desert, is more than just the senator’s hometown. Its whimsical name derives from those of two Mormon settlers, Erastus Snow and William J. Flake, the senator’s great-great-grandfather.

    Today, hundreds of Flake descendants, including the senator’s mother, live in the town of about 5,500, which is dotted with unofficial shrines to its early settlers and Mormon heritage. The James M. Flake pioneer home is catty-cornered from the Eugene Flake heritage barn; a block away, at the pioneer museum, a Flake cousin last week was offering free tours.

    In many ways, Snowflake — with its one stoplight and cheery flowerpots lining Main Street — embodies the Republican healthcare debate writ small: It largely comes down to a clash between economic interests and ideology.

    Navajo County, which takes in Snowflake, is one of the poorest in Arizona. The decades-long decline of the hog farming industry and closure of a paper mill in 2012, which cost more than 300 jobs, are twin blows that have the community still reeling.

    Tourism and second homes — many regularly travel the 175 miles from Phoenix to escape the beastly heat — have taken up some slack. But the best-paying jobs are about a 45-minute drive from Snowflake, at a few power-generating plants, or 20 miles away in Show Low, at Summit Healthcare Regional Medical Center.

    In the chief executive’s fifth-floor office, with a view stretching to the forested horizon, McArthur wielded a sheaf of statistics: Nearly three-quarters of the mothers giving birth at the center are Medicaid patients, as are close to half those visiting the emergency room. Last year, Summit wrote off more than $11.6 million in bad debt and charity care, McArthur said, down from a high of $22.3 million in 2014.

    Rolling back compensation under the Affordable Care Act — more than 400,000 residents could be knocked off the rolls — would not only “bust our state budget” by forcing Arizona to cover the expense, he went on, but also cost jobs and jeopardize plans for the surgery center and a new medical office building in Show Low.
    “It all ties to what goes on in Washington,” McArthur said.

    Snowflake Mayor Johnson, however, resents the implication that residents need legislation cooked up 2,000 miles away to care for their neighbors.

    Even with his losses under Obamacare, Johnson said, he gladly sees patients for free; with more than half a dozen churches in town, plenty of others are willing to pitch in.

    “I don’t believe it’s government’s job to provide healthcare for every person in the United States,” Johnson said, piloting his Chevy Silverado — the Book of Mormon tucked in a side pocket — on a tour of the community. “Giving free care is my choice. I don’t want to be told what I have to do.”

    Sen. Flake, who lives outside Phoenix, isn’t seen much around town these days. Perhaps once or twice a year, locals said. If he surfaced right about now, he could get an earful — not just from McArthur and Johnson but also from Thomas Poscharsky, who was mayor until Johnson replaced him in November.

    Poscharsky, a Trump voter, favors a government-run healthcare system with coverage for all, a plan typically pushed by those on the left. He remembered the last time Arizona cut Medicaid coverage, back in the Great Recession.

    “You could literally see the decline and death of some of our older clients,” said Poscharsky, a volunteer at Snowflake’s senior center.
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  23. #128
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Medicare Advantage plans take on the responsibilities of Medicare. They are usually PPOs or HMOs where you get what you get.
    .
    Because I'm replying to you, I'll reply in terms that I think will appeal to you, and 'll answer thusly: You don't get what you get; you get what you choose. You evaluate the PPO or HMO before you select it. No one forces you to select an HMO or PPO that doesn't meet your needs. No one forces you to live in a county with little choice in Medicare plans. You are a strong proponent of choice, no? This is correct right, it's all a matter if choice.

    But for a variety of reasons some people don't have much of a choice.

    I'm reminded of an adult I used to argue politics with in high school. He was a John Bircher and he would always tell me that one of our most precious freedoms was the freedom to fail. The problem with this approach is that all of our lives are made less good when we are surrounded by failure. So many people don't have the wherewithal to make good choices, so we do what we can to help them out. Single payer would help just about all if us out.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Republicans seem fearful that *someone* might get something 'for free' - that seems to bother the hell out of them. But SinglePayerHealthcare isn't going to make them rich - the only thing they're 'getting', is improved health. They're still free to fail, economically.

    See? A win/win.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post

    I'm reminded of an adult I used to argue politics with in high school. He was a John Bircher and he would always tell me that one of our most precious freedoms was the freedom to fail.
    Can anyone explain to me why this might be seen to be a benefit, a good thing?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    I'd be glad to pay more in income tax, say 5%, to fund a single-payer health system that would address both the widespread suffering and the uncertainty.
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    I know the framers spoke of the right to own property, but don't remember the right to take another's property, without just compensation.
    Depends on what tribe you belong to; or what country.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Depends on what tribe you belong to; or what country.
    If you have seen post #12 you will know that mdh belongs to the tribe Den Xéroun Típota of the country Amathis.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    I'd be glad to pay more in income tax, say 5%, to fund a single-payer health system that would address both the widespread suffering and the uncertainty.

    Agreed, and I think 5% would do it and it would not inconvenience higher income earners. Some thought would have to be given to the minimum income level at which the 5% tax level would kick in. Currently there is about 15% of the U.S. population (say around 45 million people) on Medicare and the current tax rate is 1.45% for employees and 1.45% for employers. This supports Medicare for a not particularly healthy group of people, the general population should be healthier.


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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Can anyone explain to me why this might be seen to be a benefit, a good thing?
    Freedom to fail is only a freedom because someone is there to pick you up, dust you off, so you can try again.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Freedom to fail is only a freedom because someone is there to pick you up, dust you off, so you can try again.
    Ah, you mean social security provided by a caring society? I believe the Jewish community are expected to do this.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    Because I'm replying to you, I'll reply in terms that I think will appeal to you, and 'll answer thusly: You don't get what you get; you get what you choose. You evaluate the PPO or HMO before you select it. No one forces you to select an HMO or PPO that doesn't meet your needs. No one forces you to live in a county with little choice in Medicare plans. You are a strong proponent of choice, no? This is correct right, it's all a matter if choice.

    But for a variety of reasons some people don't have much of a choice.

    I'm reminded of an adult I used to argue politics with in high school. He was a John Bircher and he would always tell me that one of our most precious freedoms was the freedom to fail. The problem with this approach is that all of our lives are made less good when we are surrounded by failure. So many people don't have the wherewithal to make good choices, so we do what we can to help them out. Single payer would help just about all if us out.
    You thought it was strange for someone to not have a single primary doctor. I was simply explaining why that was so.

    You might notice I am in favor of free healthcare for those in the bottom 50%. I am also in favor of providing protection so no one falls below the median due to medical costs. Every single payer system provides for choice. Anyone in those systems can pay for better insurance. Most people consider that amount of choice is good.

    It appears you have been silent on how your version of single payer is going to be financed. Or perhaps I missed it. I posted a link that claimed that while the UK single payer system was funded by a progressive tax, the total tax load was regressive to flat. I would prefer our total tax load to be progressive.

    I have several thoughts about the right to fail. But I don't accept the John Birch view of right to fail. I think many people are denied that right by a poor education system and discrimination. I would like that to change. I would like everyone to have a chance to fail in college. (I hope they don't fail.) I think many people give up their right to fail by expecting an employer to provide a job. I think many would be better off starting their own business. (I hope they don't fail.) In those senses I think the right to fail is important.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    And that is your reason to deny HC access to the poor?

    Idiotic indeed . .


    Originally Posted by Too Little Time

    I believe the poor will get a much worse deal than the rich.
    I have been in favor of the poor getting free healthcare.
    Life is complex.

  34. #139
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    https://www.healthcarebluebook.com/p...umerFront.aspx

    https://www.healthcarebluebook.com/p...+Tumor+Removal

    That's 'the range' for brain tumor - and I have no idea if it bears any resemblance to 'reality'. But that's the tip of the iceberg- there's all those other lil' expenses, to follow - cost of the surgical suite (pick a number, then add 2 zeros); all the supplies, unbundled of course. Medications, at inflated prices; recovery; and then.... if malignant.... chemotherapy and/or radiation.
    I finally got around to looking at your links. The costs are more in line with a cost a family might incur.

    It is hard to find the data I want. From what I found $30K of annual expenses puts a person under 45 in the top 5% of spenders. So the majority of people will not have a significant number of expensive events (until they are old). But, yes, those below the median would have trouble, but they also would have trouble with the premiums.

    On the other hand a person above twice the median might not like an occasional healthcare expense in that range, they could pay for it.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Can anyone explain to me why this might be seen to be a benefit, a good thing?
    Contrary to Obama's "you didn't build that", we have the right to do something, build something, a business, that might succeed, or it might fail. Whereupon, we have the right to try again. Government regulations notwithstanding.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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