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Thread: Why would any American

  1. #1
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    Default Why would any American

    not want every American to have really good healthcare?
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Is that what you think everybody will have, really good healthcare, if single payer is enacted. If so, i would suggest you take a good look at medicare, medicaid, the VA, the Indian Health Service. They are all run by the gov't, and i wouldn't call any of them 'really good'. What congressmen get might be called really good.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Greed!

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    When you don't have something, and are willing to take it from someone who does?
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    When you're sick and don't have money, free medical care is good.
    Keep calm, persistence beats resistance.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    There's that 'death panel' again, it's called The Republican Party.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    There's that 'death panel' again, it's called The Republican Party.
    Yup.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Free? There are some doctors that do that.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    When you have something and aren't about to give it up to help others.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    When you have a thousand times what you need and aren't about to give it up to help others.
    Fixed that, Jimmy.

    Hope you like it.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    I know the framers spoke of the right to own property, but don't remember the right to take another's property, without just compensation.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    I know the framers spoke of the right to own property, but don't remember the right to take another's property, without just compensation.

    Huh.

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 1:
    The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.
    Last edited by oznabrag; 07-15-2017 at 01:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Ephesians 4:28

    He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    Ephesians 4:28

    He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need.
    I want to see Pence quote that one to Trump while they break rocks in their orange jumpsuits.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    In one thread Christian is bad, now you use it to make something sound good. Spin, spin, spin. TDS
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    In one thread Christian is bad, now you use it to make something sound good. Spin, spin, spin. TDS
    Christian is good, as far as it goes.

    Mike Pence is no Christian.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Christian is good, as far as it goes.

    Mike Pence is no Christian.
    Judge not, lest ye be judged?
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    As Oz seems to be saying, Christianity has some good ideas. It is such a shame that so many folks that claim to be Christian don't believe in them. BTW, I don't claim to be Christian.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    I believe a man of means has a duty to help the needy. And i believe the capable have a duty to provide for themselves, with honest effort. But i don't think the working people of this country can afford to pay for 'really good' healthcare for everyone. I mention charities. The millions that are donated to cancer and heart research, the hospitals, the accommodations for families of the hospitalized. A lot of that comes from wealthy people, but that seems easily overlooked by many of the so called progressives. Is that because they feel guilty for not donating? Study after study shows charitable contributions to be more prevalent in Christian conservative areas. Do they want the government to be the provider so they can just say "hey, i'd like to help you, but i've got these taxes to pay"? "Get with the gov't, you should get enough". Who decides how much is enough? For anybody?
    Last edited by mdh; 07-15-2017 at 03:31 AM.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    I believe a man of means has a duty to help the needy. And i believe the capable have a duty to provide for themselves, with honest effort. But i don't think the working people of this country can afford to pay for 'really good' healthcare for everyone. I mention charities. The millions that are donated to cancer and heart research, the hospitals, the accommodations for families of the hospitalized. A lot of that comes from wealthy people, but that seems easily overseen by many of the so called progressives. Is that because they feel guilty for not donating? Study after study shows charitable contributions to be more prevalent in Christian conservative areas. Do they want the government to be the provider so they can just say "hey, i'd like to help you, but i've got these taxes to pay"? "Get with the gov't, you should get enough". Who decides how much is enough? For anybody?
    I think the top 1% can pay for it.


    Indeed, the top 1% could pay off the National Debt, AND STILL BE THE TOP 1%.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    No. No they couldn't. If they sold everything they have for what it's worth today, they could pay about 2/3 of next years budget. Then what would you do next year? I don't think you have a good grasp on what 20 trillion is. We've got a few guys with hundreds of billions, but these are thousands of billions. Millions don't even scratch the surface.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    If all those other countries like Canada, England, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, etc. can supply healthcare for their citizens, then why is the USA not capable? They even manage to spend less money doing it. Is that because we insist on supporting so many insurance salesmen and their investors also?

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I want to see Pence quote that one to Trump while they break rocks in their orange jumpsuits.
    They make jumpsuits for rocks now?
    Or are you thinking they will be hitting each other on the head?

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    If all those other countries like Canada, England, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, etc. can supply healthcare for their citizens, then why is the USA not capable? They even manage to spend less money doing it. Is that because we insist on supporting so many insurance salesmen and their investors also?
    http://www.usdebtclock.org

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    I believe a man of means has a duty to help the needy. And i believe the capable have a duty to provide for themselves, with honest effort. But i don't think the working people of this country can afford to pay for 'really good' healthcare for everyone. I mention charities. The millions that are donated to cancer and heart research, the hospitals, the accommodations for families of the hospitalized. A lot of that comes from wealthy people, but that seems easily overlooked by many of the so called progressives. Is that because they feel guilty for not donating? Study after study shows charitable contributions to be more prevalent in Christian conservative areas. Do they want the government to be the provider so they can just say "hey, i'd like to help you, but i've got these taxes to pay"? "Get with the gov't, you should get enough". Who decides how much is enough? For anybody?
    I'd never realised that Australia and New Zealand were so much wealthier than the US on a per capita basis.... the things you learn here !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Is that what you think everybody will have, really good healthcare, if single payer is enacted. If so, i would suggest you take a good look at medicare, medicaid, the VA, the Indian Health Service. They are all run by the gov't, and i wouldn't call any of them 'really good'. What congressmen get might be called really good.
    Speak for yourself, I use the VA and have had no major complaints.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    not want every American to have really good healthcare?
    I don't know, my Healthcare is now, by far, both the worse and most expensive I have had. Yet everyone else n the forum seems to desire that for me. The closest hospital in my plan is an hour drive. I have a 13k deductible. I pay 14000/year for it. From what I can tell, there is no one who cares

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    No. No they couldn't. If they sold everything they have for what it's worth today, they could pay about 2/3 of next years budget. Then what would you do next year? I don't think you have a good grasp on what 20 trillion is. We've got a few guys with hundreds of billions, but these are thousands of billions. Millions don't even scratch the surface.
    The top 1% own about 38-40% of the country's wealth. The country's wealth is just below $100 trillion. So the 1% could pay the debt off and still be very rich. I believe you confused income and wealth. But even there you misrepresented the income of the 1%. Much of their income is deferred - unrealized capital gains, and is seldom accounted for.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith
    not want every American to have really good healthcare?
    Almost everyone wants someone else to pay for their healthcare. Almost no one wants to pay for the healthcare of others. Your comment seems to be for the most part wrong. It is not healthcare that is the issue it is who pays for it.
    Life is complex.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    No. No they couldn't. If they sold everything they have for what it's worth today, they could pay about 2/3 of next years budget. Then what would you do next year? I don't think you have a good grasp on what 20 trillion is. We've got a few guys with hundreds of billions, but these are thousands of billions. Millions don't even scratch the surface.
    You, once again, are not correct.

    How much personal wealth is in the US?

    U.S. households saw their total net worth rise to a record level of $84.9 trillion in the first quarter of this year, the Federal Reserve reported Thursday. That's compared to $80.3 trillion a year ago.Jun 12, 2015
    Currently, the richest 1% hold about 38% of all privately held wealth in the United States. while the bottom 90% held 73% of all debt. According to The New York Times, the "richest 1 percent in the United States now own more wealth than the bottom 90 percent".
    On January 26, 2016, debt held by the public was $13.62 trillion or about 75% of the previous 12 months of GDP. Intragovernmental holdings stood at $5.34 trillion, giving a combined total gross national debt of $18.96 trillion or about 104% of the previous 12 months of GDP.

    38% of $84.9T = $32.262T

    $32.262T - $18.96T = $13.302T

    If the top 1% paid off the National Debt, they would still have $13.302 Trillion Dollars.

    I'm pretty sure that leaves them as STILL the top 1%.


    The problem you are having is that you don't have a grasp on exactly how much the top 1% actually own.

    Also, be certain you understand the difference between 'deficit' and 'debt'. Your statement that "they could pay about 2/3 of next years budget", means that you do not understand this, or that you were merely changing the subject in mid-stride.


    I want you to do a couple of things for me.

    First, I would like for you to look up the definition of the word 'democratic'. That's with the lower-case 'd'.

    Then, I want you to tell me how it's possible for a 'democracy' to function when the wealth distribution looks like this:


  30. #30
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    They make jumpsuits for rocks now?
    Or are you thinking they will be hitting each other on the head?
    Sooooo . . . hitting each other over the head or breaking rocks.

    With these two, it is hard to tell the difference!

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    I don't know, my Healthcare is now, by far, both the worse and most expensive I have had. Yet everyone else n the forum seems to desire that for me. The closest hospital in my plan is an hour drive. I have a 13k deductible. I pay 14000/year for it. From what I can tell, there is no one who cares
    That reaffirms that the US has a crappy system. Learn from the best of the rest and all of your problems disappear.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  32. #32
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    No. No they couldn't. If they sold everything they have for what it's worth today, they could pay about 2/3 of next years budget. Then what would you do next year? I don't think you have a good grasp on what 20 trillion is. We've got a few guys with hundreds of billions, but these are thousands of billions. Millions don't even scratch the surface.
    Another dumb post.
    Don't have them sell the principal, tax them fairly on the income.

    Reminds me of the difference between charitable giving and true charity. One gives a hungry man the price of a meal, the other gives him the tools and trains him in how to use them to earn the price of his meals for the rest of his life.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    I know the framers spoke of the right to own property, but don't remember the right to take another's property, without just compensation.
    Eminent Domain!

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh
    No. No they couldn't. If they sold everything they have for what it's worth today, they could pay about 2/3 of next years budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Another dumb post.
    Don't have them sell the principal, tax them fairly on the income.

    Reminds me of the difference between charitable giving and true charity. One gives a hungry man the price of a meal, the other gives him the tools and trains him in how to use them to earn the price of his meals for the rest of his life.
    Actually mdh is not far off. Income taxes are above 20% of income. And the top 1% get 17% of income. Of course that "income" does not count all income that the rich have.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Why would any American

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Actually mdh is not far off. Income taxes are above 20% of income. And the top 1% get 17% of income. Of course that "income" does not count all income that the rich have.
    mdh is so far off NASA should hire him to get pictures of Jupiter.

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