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Thread: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

  1. #1
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    Default Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Hi everyone. I recently acquired a Herreshoff Eagle and have now started to put it together for a very serious voyage. I have several questions but before I get into them I wanted t introduce myself and make sure that this forum is the right place to be in.

    the hull is fiberglass but it has wood boat written all over it.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Sorry Pyrofly, the Eagle may appear to look like a wooden boat in your eyes but is in reality far removed from most wooden catboats of that size. I'm sure you could enjoy yourself on many of the sheltered parts of the Great Loop but no 18' catboat (even a wood one) is suitable for the large open bodies of water encountered on that trip.
    You should consider joining the Catboat Association, check out some of the other sailing forums and even the Trawler Forum (if a 40' trawler is uncomfortable in some areas consider what it may be like on a 18'er.)
    It's a beautiful day up here on northern Lake Michigan but you would not be happy out there on the Eagle.
    When the last tree is cut
    When the last river is dry
    When the last fish is caught
    Only then will Man realize that he cannot eat money.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrofly View Post
    Hi everyone. I recently acquired a Herreshoff Eagle and have now started to put it together for a very serious voyage. I have several questions but before I get into them I wanted t introduce myself and make sure that this forum is the right place to be in.

    the hull is fiberglass but it has wood boat written all over it.
    Best thing is to sail the heck outa it in your area, gradually pushing the limits as you get more experienced. Once you determine your (and any possible crew's) comfort level, you can then look at suitable cruise routes. How experienced a sailor are you?
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Are you looking at down the Lakes to either the St Lawrence and along New England coast to NYC or Lakes to Erie Canal and Hudson to NYC; and thence ICW to Florida; picking the Gulf Coast to the Mississippi and north? Or maybe counterclockwise? Anyway, the Eagle is suited or can be made suited both for all the low bridge canal work (be sure to have a really good tabernacle worked out) and the more open sections assuming you pick your weather.

    It's a long long trip because you have a boat with limited capacity so you'll be grubbing up every three to five days. If you have the guts to drive ten hours per day you could manage 50 miles a day maybe and that denies time to hang out, much less time for resupply. So measure out the nominal distance and divide by twenty to come up with the likely shortest time. Add in at least one or two seasonal lay-overs.

    A worthy ambition, to say the least.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    It's been done by 2 sisters ( 21 &25) in an open tin boat
    http://www.duroboat.com/SmallBoatBigSumme.htm

    As I recall it's been done in a potter 15, jet ski, pontoon boat just to name a few.

    Just do good planning and don't be in a hurry.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    "... and the great shroud of the sea rolled on as it rolled five thousand years ago."

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrofly View Post
    Hi everyone. I recently acquired a Herreshoff Eagle and have now started to put it together for a very serious voyage. I have several questions but before I get into them I wanted t introduce myself and make sure that this forum is the right place to be in.

    the hull is fiberglass but it has wood boat written all over it.
    Welcome to the forum pyrofly. The Eagle is a lovely looking little boat, I look forward to seeing yours and following your preparation and exploits here.

    There’s truly some great knowledge and experience here on this forum, along with a few inevitable humbugs and know-it-alls that you’ll find on any forum, so take what you can from the advice offered but ultimately make up your own mind what to do and which way to do things after sifting through what comes out of your questions. All the very best with it all.

    (And please don’t be put off by the first respondent to your first post on this forum seeming to tell you to go elsewhere to another forum - I’m sure that wasn’t his intent but it is certainly not representative of the general nature of this forum which I have found generally welcoming, positive and helpful.)
    Last edited by Larks; 07-16-2017 at 05:48 PM.
    Larks

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Welcome and bring on the questions. What Ian says, you can do the loop with that boat if you prep well and have the time. Does your boat have the diesel inboard? That would be nice but certainly not necessary. I'd want a good dodger fitted and the ability to close in the cockpit at night. Will this be a solo pursuit or will there be crew some or all of the time?

    There are more than a few magazine articles, books, and a website devoted to this pursuit. I trust you've been reading up and understand the challenges and routing options. On the more technical questions, there's lots of expertise here.
    -Dave

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    I don't think any Eagles came with inboards. All outboards in a well, no? The Harbor Pilot versions did and maybe the Scouts....
    "... and the great shroud of the sea rolled on as it rolled five thousand years ago."

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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    I have seen some listed with diesel inboards. I think it's a Yanmar 1GM. I believe the same install was done on some of the Americas, too. Those boats are high on my list of good value, good looking old production boats.
    -Dave

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    The OP will know what his boat has anyway.
    "... and the great shroud of the sea rolled on as it rolled five thousand years ago."

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Oh wow! I was totally discouraged by the first reply. Today I decided to check back and all the new responses have given me hope that I'm doing the right thing. First a little about myself and my family. My parents are Cuban, and their only child, a son was born in south Florida. My childhood and their youth was spent fishing and diving off the Florida keys. My parents, now in their mid 70's and going strong, are retired. My father is the one who wants to do the loop. Mom would prefer to sit this out tso dad is doing it solo. I or other family members may join him for 1 week stretches tops. Dad has extensive boating experience. We've always had project boats which we fixed up ourselves and this is no exception. I worked in the marine industry, and have decent skills. What I don't have is an nautical engineering degree or experience with this type of rig. I like doing things Zo3-mwU-HZW-Rbe so this is just part of my research.

    Why an eagle? I purchased a very abused eagle as an impulse buy. I fell in love with its shape which is not seen to often in south Florida. I realized quickly that i needed a parts boat. Craigslist led me to another project eagle in Tennessee which I purchased and hauled to south Florida as a road trip with my father. I have stripped that hull completely and am now finally starting my assembly.

    Here are comments and replies to your questions.

    Thorne: solid advice. We intend on lots of test sails.

    Ian: not 100% sure on which loop. But I believe couter clock wise through locks and lakes and coming out at mobile. The riming you describe sounds right. It is a slow boat, but its easily sailed by one. It can carry a lot of weight without much of a speed penalty. The slow and steady approach sounds perfect, interesting, and safer for my father. I can see lots of pros. And I can always trailer the boat home if need be.

    Larks: great advice.

    Woxbox: they did come with diesels and with outboard motor wells. Mine is the outboard type. We are going to
    power it with a honda 5hp 4 stroke. There are some serious clearance issues making installation of a larger engine very difficult plus I also already owned the Honda. the sails will be new.

    Our thoughts.

    Tankage and weight. Low and center is ideal. The modificationsm I'm considering are

    to cut open the cockpit floor and install a custom made aluminum belly tank for the fuel.
    Batteries under the port berth.
    A small 10-15 gal bladder tank will provide potable water under the starboard Berth next to sink.
    A Porto potty will handle #2.

    My first of many questions. Should i take out some lead ballast to compensate for the additional weight of fuel batteries etc?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    I'd not remove ballast unless the batteries are as low as the ballast being removed, which is not what you describe. You don't want to both load the boat down and raise the center of mass.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    "... and the great shroud of the sea rolled on as it rolled five thousand years ago."

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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    The Honda 5 is a great choice if it's a 2016 or older. I have one , and for under $70 they make a remote throttle and shift kit. Part number 06170-zv1-812. You will need to buy a set of controls , I used an old 2 lever . I put one on my old blue and yellow Honda BF50 ( 5 horse) and it works great. The same kit works from the earliest to 2016. 2017 Honda changed the motor to a 'made in China' motor. Also, with the Honda, if the recoil starter breaks, you just pull off the top cowl and the manual backup is right on top, nothing to remove to get to it like many outboards. And you can get a charging coil.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Just a note on keeping your batteries low to keep your weight low: don’t include your radio (VHF/HF if you have one) battery in that - it should be located above your radio.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Since you purchased a parts boat, you've probably considered this: A weak point in those boats is that the steel centerboard rusts up and needs to be replaced sooner or later. If you haven't already looked at it, now would be the time!

    As to the ballast, as Ian says. This is going to be a very leisurely trip, no need to fret over a bit of extra weight. Safety is more important.

    I haven't done anything like the Great Loop, but in a boat of similar capabilities that I had some years back I found that 35 miles a day was about my average. It's easy to show math that suggests more is possible, but my reality was that some days are spent without moving, and on many others the weather and good old fashioned laziness cut down on the progress. You can do a much longer day, but keeping the average up is a much bigger challenge.
    -Dave

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Ian solid points. decision made Ballast will not be removed.
    Dave, center boards are pretty pitted. I am looking into waterjetting one out of 316ss plate, or bronze.
    Larks, As a certified marine electronics tec I can assure you that it does not matter if the batteries are above or below the vhf. Since you brought it up the electronics outfit will be a small Garmin gps/sounder/plotter. VHF will be a handheld. Long distance communication will be via cell phone. A spot emergency messenger will also be on board so family can track progress and for help in cell dark spots. Music will be via blue tooth speaker.

    Question #2

    Eagles used bronze pad eyes mounted on a balsa cored deck as the point of attachment for the aft shrouds. This is a flaw in the design as the loads are too great even with proper backing plates. I want to install external chainplates bolted to the outside of the hull. The gentleman at Bristol bronze agrees that this is the way to go, but I'm not exactly sure about one thing. The hull to deck joint on this boat is a 1/2" outward flange through bolted every 6" then covered by the rub rail. To install the chainplates directly to the hull, I would need to notch out the hull to deck joint. Is this ok? I do not want to install spacers under the chainplates. I can't find anything about this anywhere online.
    Last edited by pyrofly; 08-01-2017 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Correct typos

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Good to see this thread still going.

    Re the batteries above the radio, I’m referring only to the radio battery and that’s a marine safety standard rather than anything to do with electronic technical issues (which I admit that I am hopeless at so wouldn’t comment on).

    It’s so that the battery for the radio stays above water for as long as the radio is accessible and operable if the vessel starts to sink and the main batteries go under water, which they are likely to do early on as their weight is kept low.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Regarding redoing the shroud bases to chainplates, contact the designer Halsey Herreshoff to ask if it's worthwhile given your plans. He's very approachable: http://www.herreshoffdesigns.com/profile.html
    "... and the great shroud of the sea rolled on as it rolled five thousand years ago."

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Rbgarr. Good idea. I sent him an email. I also tried brion toss. Keeping fingers crossed.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    What Thorne and Ian said. Sounds like an adventure. You'll find good info on the Loopers website. With patience and caution one can do much with a small boat, ref Webb Chiles sailing partway around the world in a 19 foot Drascombe Lugger Yawl, and now at age 76 in a Moore 24. He's in the Keys headed our way soon. Our buddy Dave has circumnavigated the Hawaiian Islands in a Paradox 14 and cruised it from the tip of Texas around to Cedar Key, over to the Bahamas and down to Cuba now. AND folks have gone over Niagara in a barrel, so your voyage is somewhere between our day sails off of our dock and barreling over the Falls. My wife wants to do some of the Loop in a Sunfish, then other parts on other boats, which we call the LOOPB (Loop On Other People's Boats).

    As for outfitting ideas check out Dave's blog for his electronic setup : https://daveskaife.wordpress.com

    As for more outfitting ideas, esp electronics, solar chargers and chow, check out Webb's blog: http://self-portraitinthepresentseajournal.blogspot.com

    On an aside if you have the boat registered in Florida, I understand that they discount the registration if you have an EPIRB.

    The LF Herreshoff book I am reading now preaches against changing a design. If you find yourself wanting to do that, perhaps you should consider a different craft. Or consult the designer as suggested.

    And from recent threads it sound like you'll need a cedar bucket. But probably not an icebox, unless you need a place to store "ossified lamb chops or some other concoction that resembled a pre Cambrian custard." (Sensible Crusing Designs, LFH)

    Cheers
    K&A

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    If it can be done in a Sea Pearl 21, it can be done with this boat.

    http://www.marine-concepts.com/shane-st-claire.html
    Take Care,
    Steve W

    Honeoye Falls, New York
    Building a B & B Core Sound 20 Mark III "Jazz Hands"
    Spindrift 11N Suzy J Build Pictures
    A little video of the Suzy J and my youngest son

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    I have heard (only) that the lower Mississippi is pretty boring (not much to see over the top of levees) and crowded with tugs and barges setting up monster wakes. Thus Tennessee-Tombigbee waterway is an alternate route, or so I understand.
    "... and the great shroud of the sea rolled on as it rolled five thousand years ago."

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Outfitting a Herreshoff Eagle for the great loop.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    I have heard (only) that the lower Mississippi is pretty boring (not much to see over the top of levees) and crowded with tugs and barges setting up monster wakes. Thus Tennessee-Tombigbee waterway is an alternate route, or so I understand.
    I have seen parts of the Tenn-Tom. It is pretty much just a rip-rap lined canal with reservoirs above each set of locks. Lock size limits tugs to tows of eight barges.

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