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Thread: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    A note on this aside: those cars are built to what's essentially a box rule. All the wing parts have to fit into an imaginary box, so naturally the designers use all the space they are allowed, creating a boxy shape. If it weren't for the rule, the cars would probably be a lot more attractive. Another curiosity is that the Indy cars are by definition "open wheel" cars. But open wheels are bad for aerodynamics, so the designers do everything they can to enclose the wheels, or at least get the airflow off them, without breaking the open wheel rule. Again, if it weren't for the big rulebook, the cars would have much more flowing, organic shapes.

    Here's a sample of the most highly engineered wings for sailing. As far as I know, the shape of the leading or trailing edges are not regulated. Is the C-class cat mimicking a bird's wing, too?

    Thanks for posting these Woxbox. I don't know how much a C-class sail is mimicking a bird's wing but I bet a birdwing mast could be configured to have much the same profile a C-class sail if that's any help to you. I really like that study of the different sail shapes. thanks again for posting them.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Landlockedvoyager View Post
    Hey, Kenjamin. A thought on your sunshade. You could make detatchable curtains of the same fabric used for sunshades on cars, the fabric that blocks 70% of the sunlight but still allows you to see through it. That way you can keep a shade up in the direction of the direct sunlight. Good luck with your build - John
    Thanks for the suggestion. Sounds like a good one. Maybe those drop curtains could also keep out the rain as well. And thanks for the good luck too. Cheers!

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by kenjamin View Post
    Thanks for posting these Woxbox. I don't know how much a C-class sail is mimicking a bird's wing but I bet a birdwing mast could be configured to have much the same profile a C-class sail if that's any help to you. I really like that study of the different sail shapes. thanks again for posting them.

    Might be worthwhile to Note that all of these wings have flat heads and even those with a jib trend that way.
    The C class cat is the only one without a headsail and following the latest AC racing, it was a consideration by ETNZ to go without a jib as well.
    So the only wing without a headsail is the one with a semblance of curvature in the luff.
    Light structure and comprssion when using a headsail may have something to do with this.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    1. I am retired, and enjoying life living overseas and traveling the world, thank you very much,
    2. I only "demand" that you study aerodynamics if you're gonna keep making wild claims about the supposed amazing aerodynamic improvements of your mast thingie. If you'd just stick to the known facts instead of hurling about unsubstantiated speculations as if they were actually proven and demonstrated, I'd shut up about it, with pleasure. If you wanna make claims about how you think it's prettier, or provide an argument that stowing a mast against a gunwale is more important than having a lighter, simpler, cheaper, and easier to build mast, then again, I don't care. It's your shameless hucksterism of a poorly researched concept that really gets up my nose.
    3. Look up "Sunk Costs Fallacy". I think the FSU researchers who were perfectly willing to turnthe patent back over to you for a dollar understand it just fine.
    4. Despite all that, I do want you to have exactly the boat you prefer. To each cat his own rat. Just quit making irresponsible claims.
    Well said.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Giving up my annoying habit of making outrageous claims will be easy if I could retain my right to have opinions about something I have been researching for the last ten years of my life.

    If you think my crude wooden prototypes have no room for improvement or that the design would not get lighter and perform better when rendered by experts in carbon fiber, then you are entitled to that opinion. Just give me the right to have my own much more optimistic opinion.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugalong View Post
    Might be worthwhile to Note that all of these wings have flat heads and even those with a jib trend that way.
    The C class cat is the only one without a headsail and following the latest AC racing, it was a consideration by ETNZ to go without a jib as well.
    So the only wing without a headsail is the one with a semblance of curvature in the luff.
    Light structure and comprssion when using a headsail may have something to do with this.
    Hey Lugalong, good to hear from you. My laminated spruce prototypes are certainly much heavier than similar sized masts in carbon fiber but from my experience, they seem to be quite strong (just my opinion, not a claim). Both Xena, my Caledonia Yawl, and Gabrielle, my SCAMP, set headsails that seemed to add a lot of power to the rigs. Gabrielle in particular set a 110% genoa that seemed to work well even without the use of stays. No doubt that it would have worked even better with stays, but when that genoa got deployed, it was like having the turbo kicking in on my Mini Cooper.

    This picture by Dave Ender of Gabrielle sailing Lake Efaula at Sail Oklahoma in 2014 reminds me of how much fun it is to experiment with laminated wood mast designs. I'm the guy in the middle checking out the set of the genoa. Shawn Payment is at the tiller and the guy forward was a big old burly rugby player but I've forgotten his name. It's hell getter older but it beats the alternative in my opinion. I think all three of us had a fun sail that day (more opinion).

    The most fun of all was at the awards ceremony when Gabrielle was declared the boat that "looked the most like a pirate ship" and to this day, I'm very proud of that!

    Last edited by kenjamin; 08-27-2017 at 10:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Nearly doubling your working sail area in the form of adding a giant 110% headsail adds power to a rig? Really?

    Quick! Better patent that one too!

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Please note that a vast majority of patents never get produced nor make any money. I am the proud owner of no less than three patents and have yet to see a penny from them. I am in the majority of patent holders, and,Kenjamin, most likely, so are you.

    While it is exciting to be recognized for coming up with something that is "new and useful," don't let it go to your head.

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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    I love this thread, and I think it's excellent to hear from James, and phiil and kenjamin on these points.

    I have studied university level physics, math, and a bit of engineering formally. I've only studied aerodynamics informally, after school on my own time for many years.
    The comments on a patent are spot on, and if you talk to any programmers, they'll agree patents are just a literal quagmire, designed by lawyers, for lawyers, to make excuses for corps and people to sue often, with huge legal budgets.

    The us patent office is supposed to follow guidelines, but they don't, its been proven ad nauseam by the example of horrid patents awarded. Look it up.
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...n-9-0-opinion/

    The same goes with following obvious things from nature. You can't patent human dna, but they've tried... and they get away with patenting nearly everything else, (plants/animals for food)
    The whole setup is messed up, and I think most people know it.

    The leading edge of a whale fin, has irregular bumps, which produce vortices & improve speed and water flow, which companies have also tried to patent... they get them, but ultimately, when/if challenged, they usually fall apart.

    Sail aerodynamics are an interesting sub-field, since, in theory they should follow pure wing/airplane like setups but even the most advanced like the ac72 have to deal with so many other factors like low wind speeds and maxing out lift on that side of the equations. This is why big (simple) lugs and junks work so well.


    Just remember, this is the same patent office that awarded a patent to have a blinking cursor use the XOR function to make itself flash off and on... a complete fiasco. The logic of that decision really goes to show you just how insane they are. The logic of an XOR gate in electronics is like as simple as binary, on/off. Giving someone a patent for it is the most extreme example of something obvious that should have never ever qualified.

    Lawyers (and judges) will argue, only because they get paid to do so, and the vast majority of sheeple go along with it. It's utter nonsense/bs of the first order
    please continue
    Last edited by Dirc; 08-27-2017 at 10:42 PM.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    OK - so we all have our little pet foibles - one here seems to have a thing about 'sailin' hores' (or something like that) , I am a gaff cutter tragic and I have been flogging this little video <https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l4uFLFrT-y0&sns=em> everywhere (to scant response), and Ken has had to plead for a bit of slack for his thing.

    So, to divert the angst to a more productive outlet, I have started a thread in The Bilge "Trump / The last Trump" <http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...The-Last-Trump> (I affirm that if validated, it resolves all the woes of that world)

    frank

    apologies for font size jumps - I was just winging it.......

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    The main reason I ever looked into a patent was to just get credit for thinking of a sickle-shaped mast that could store out of the way for fishing, rowing, or whatever else someone might want to do with the rig struck and the mast or masts stored completely out of the way. This, in my opinion, is something that the birdwing mast does very well. I am fascinated by how large and powerful a birdwing rig can become and still have masts small enough that can be stepped and unstepped by little old me. Muri-Maru is my exploration into this upper limit of an unstayed rig that can be easily rigged or stored by one person. It is also my answer to the conditions I found when I tried to complete the Texas 200 in my Welsford Saturday Night Special. I found I needed a boat that could set a full-time sunshade in order to protect my pale skin from that hellfire Texas sun. I also needed a boat that could carrying all the camping gear, food, ice, water, safety equipment, flotation, ballast, etc. so Muri-Maru seems to be that boat to me.

    My perspective is that if you work to hard at anything when you're retired, you're doing something wrong. To say that I'm enjoying my retirement is an understatement. Life is pretty good for this old geezer now. I've found that the laminated spruce mast I originally made for my Special is easy to step by myself and I do not think that Muri-Maru's main mast, although a little bigger, will be a problem to handle either. Muri-Maru's ketch rig will provide about twice the power of anything I've owned and sailed before. To take Muri-Maru back to the Texas 200 and succeed would be off the charts fun for me. It's something worth getting an old widower out of bed in the morning and something he can dream about at night. No one can take that away from me.

    The more I think about Muri-Maru, the better it gets. I've had this wild idea of air-conditioning the aft cabin of the boat. I've found a very small marine unit heat pump that can heat as well as cool. It weighs 38 lbs. and is rated at 6000 Btu so plenty of power for the small aft cabin (it draws 5 amps). Of course, it will take a small fortune to solar and wind power the air conditioning unit but Muri-Maru is above all else a genuine load carrier and should be able to handle the additional weight especially if some of it could qualify as ballast. The boat and rig will be easy for me to come up with but the power systems and marine air unit will take me some time to save up for. But I'm not in any big hurry. It's been a lot of fun just planning for Muri-Maru. The money I spent at Bedard Yacht Design rendering Muri-Maru was money well spent as it enabled me to see beyond my own limited imagination into a world where everything looks real but can be changed at a moment's notice and that change in viritual reality is much cheaper that it would be in the middle of a real boat build.

    There will always be folks who do not agree with your opinions. If you let those people get you down, you're not doing retirement right. I'm having fun and that's my bottom line, not a million dollars.

    Do you think I'll have fun sailing Muri-Maru downwind in the Texas 200? I do.

    Last edited by kenjamin; 08-28-2017 at 09:23 AM.

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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Bumped into a marine air-conditioner salesman at the bicycle shop yesterday. He said my plan for air-conditioning hell (found in South Texas) was impractical. He told me if I want to sleep in an air-conditioned comfort in my tiny aft cabin that I would have to get one of Honda's super quiet gasoline generators for that. With Muri-Maru's open central cockpit I suppose I could run the generator there while I sleep in the aft cabin. Wanted to avoid gasoline altogether but the weight of the battery bank it would take to run the ac all night would probably sink the boat from the way he told it. The only good news is that I might as well use my existing trusty 4HP four-stroke Yamaha for auxiliary power if I've got to carry gasoline anyway.

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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    To wrap up my contribution to this discussion, because, when things go as far as research into air conditioning, it becomes meaningless.
    Combating cold is one thing, but staying cool on a boat in tropical waters is hardly an issue……. Just splash off and let the air do some natural cooling.
    Having a big central cockpit makes decked over boat ends less than useful for habitation anyway, so in the case of this craft the decks seem to be there specifically o brace the cantilever masts, which is fine and well if they (deck structures) are kept as light as possible and inflatable bladders are then strapped up under them for capsize recovery purpose.

    Just as the area under the forwqrd cuddy is open to access from the cockpit, so it would seem sensible to keep things for what could in effect be an after cuddy, in the wqy of the cabin shown on the Pelican design.
    This way, the tiller could even swing under the deck and have a tidy system of control lines that do not interfere with the mizzen sheet track or other rigging lines that might take up space on the after deck;lines such as running backstays, that could serve good purpose when using a 110% genoa headsail for instance.

    Good idea to use this headsail.
    It appears to me (when making a thumbnail sketch of such a sailplan) that the balance compliments a largish mizzen sail.. At the same time I have drawn in a straight foremast with a curved Gunter lug, which (with the curved lug) looks very much like a bent birdwing spar in general form, but is no doubt a lot less demanding to build in laminated Spruce, and would be helpful to carry the headstay and running backs…….certainly the straight spar will bear the compression loadings a lot better than the curved one.
    Erecting the main without the weight of the top part will sure be an ease-making improvement over a longer single piece birdwing mainmast, and having a curved lug will make it look very much like the top end of the sickle shaped birdwing patent spar…….the fact that the kink is missing lower down will surely not make much difference to it’s functionality, besides doing away with the need for rotation about it’s axis. even if this is a deprture from the patent. ,
    Leaving the smaller mizzen in it’s single piece, bent and kinked shape, might be enough to satisfy the urge of having a double bend spar adhering to the patent?.

    Compiling a rendering of a bent lug sliding Gunter main along with birdwing mizzen and a genoa on a long bowsprit should produce an image of close resemblance to the sketch I have made before writing this post.
    As it goes with me, I have to have a picture in my minds eye before doing a sketch or drawing, and with this ability it used to be easy enough to compile images using the old type photo mechanics when constructing images like the Bedard renderings.
    Computer generated images are just a short cut way of doing what we used to do with photographic images and film, in order to get images like your Muri Maru ones shown in this thread
    It is/was a case of dropping out a masked area matching the silhouette of hull and sails within an image of a body of water, then dropping images of a hull and sails back into the silhouette area, producing images similar to those shown above.
    Computers just do it quickly without the cost of materials (film) or the hand skills that masking and working in film required.
    I suppose doing computer manipulated imaging rather than graphic art and overlay image crafting is much like using CADCAM along with some fantastical robotic manufacturing process rather than doing so by basic fabricating.

    Making a carbon composite custom bent spar by hand is apparently not up to scratch, though, and which is understandable when there is no shortage of money to be spent.
    Likewise, a quickly hand drawn image might be too cheap and cheerful a way of viewing an idea, compared to image construction using computer technology.

    Then again, CAD CAM working of Spruce instead of handcrafting, is completely OTT and a more cheap and cheerful build process fits better.

    Personally, I prefer the Spruce spars, but know that they will be heavier than cacrbon composite ones.
    As well, I would be happy with a straight Spruce mast and a curved, swept back sliding Gunter lug, which would have very much the same look and lines as a double bend birdwing mast anyway, but could then be made with a higher aspect for improved efficiency.
    Of course it is not my boat, or my money being spent, so it doesn’t matter what I would do. Still, the swept back spar tips of a ketch with a racy rake to a headsail on a long bowsprit would do justice to this little ship.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Hey Lugalong,

    Thanks for the discussion. You seem to be a reasonable man. I think because we are different people, we are going to want different boats. Please let me explain my version of the Yangtze Pelican and I will address your comments in the order in which you have brought them up.

    First the air-conditioning, I thought being a Florida boy that the Texas sun would not be a big problem for me. I was sure wrong about that. On the first day of the Texas 200, I faced 100F temperatures and 30 knot winds. It was like trying to survive in the nozzle of a hairdryer set on high! I tried to cover up like the pros of the event do but I quickly became dizzy from heatstroke. I really needed a full-time sunshade.

    As for the air-conditioning idea, it would allow me to sleep comfortably at night with no mosquitoes so that I could awake refreshed and rested so that this 68 year old body of mine could make it through another day of sailing in the harsh conditions. It’s a five day event, so the fatigue can wear you down over time. I can handle Florida heat but South Texas heat is a whole new level of misery. Until you’ve experienced it, you’ll just have to take my word on it. As I see it, the challenge is to enjoy the event, not just survive it. Plus it would be cool to have an air-conditioned boat in more ways than one. Muri-Maru could be the talk of the fleet. Another $2500 for air-conditioning (heat pump + generator) is a high amount to pay but a really fun feature and something I would enjoy. It’s my money right? The heat pump is reverse cycle so can provide heat as well for cold water exploration.

    As for the cabins, Captain Short designed the Yangtze Pelican as a self-righting, blue water capable micro-cruiser. The cabins are all about making the boat self-righting, although as you noted, they are also good at supporting the fore and aft ketch rig. I recently had JF Bedard extend the centerboard case all the way through the open cockpit so that the forward bulkhead of the cuddy is stiffly connected to the aft bulkhead of the open cockpit. This cuts into the cockpit’s open space but greatly increases the stiffness and overall strength of the boat and much better connects what the two masts are doing as a single unit.

    Chances are I’ll be solo on my boat so I’ve fashioned the available space to suit my own needs and wants and not anyone else’s. Everything I need to survive will be within arm’s reach of the helm during the day and everything else will be available in the aft cabin while anchored at night. The ketch rig is a solo sailor’s “dream come true” as far as I can see and I can’t wait to try it out. Tacking with the proposed rig should be nearly effortless and it also presents well-balanced downwind sailing for the usual long Texas 200 downwind runs. I know that both masts will be easy to step as I’ve already stepped Muri-Maru’s mizzen mast many times as it is the main mast on my Saturday Night Special. The main mast for Muri-Maru is not that much bigger than her mizzen mast and the main will have a loading ramp to help keep the stepping effort down to a reasonable level for one guy like me. I should also be able to use the mizzen mast’s halyard line to help handle the main mast if that ever becomes necessary. Already having Muri-Maru’s mizzen mast and sail built means relatively short work for me in coming up with the rest of the rig. And I’m starting to get pretty good and efficient at spruce birdwing production.

    My immediate goal for Muri-Maru is to survive and complete the Texas 200 so that I can experience the free beer, boiled shrimp, and great party at Magnolia Beach at the end of the event. However, after a few years of sailing Muri-Maru, I may get more ambitious and start eyeing the Bahamas Islands 75 miles away from Florida. Who knows what the future may hold for an old saltwater brat and a good boat?

    Best regards,
    Ken
    Last edited by kenjamin; 08-30-2017 at 09:26 AM.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by kenjamin View Post
    Hey Lugalong,

    Thanks for the discussion. You seem to be a reasonable man. I think because we are different people, we are going to want different boats. Please let me explain my version of the Yangtze Pelican and I will address your comments in the order in which you have brought them up.

    First the air-conditioning, I thought being a Florida boy that the Texas sun would not be a big problem for me. I was sure wrong about that. On the first day of the Texas 200, I faced 100F temperatures and 30 knot winds. It was like trying to survive in the nozzle of a hairdryer set on high! I tried to cover up like the pros of the event do but I quickly became dizzy from heatstroke. I really needed a full-time sunshade.

    As for the air-conditioning idea, it would allow me to sleep comfortably at night with no mosquitoes so that I could awake refreshed and rested so that this 68 year old body of mine could make it through another day of sailing in the harsh conditions. It’s a five day event, so the fatigue can wear you down over time. I can handle Florida heat but South Texas heat is a whole new level of misery. Until you’ve experienced it, you’ll just have to take my word on it. As I see it, the challenge is to enjoy the event, not just survive it. Plus it would be cool to have an air-conditioned boat in more ways than one. Muri-Maru could be the talk of the fleet. Another $2500 for air-conditioning (heat pump + generator) is a high amount to pay but a really fun feature and something I would enjoy. It’s my money right? The heat pump is reverse cycle so can provide heat as well for cold water exploration.

    As for the cabins, Captain Short designed the Yangtze Pelican as a self-righting, blue water capable micro-cruiser. The cabins are all about making the boat self-righting, although as you noted, they are also good at supporting the fore and aft ketch rig. I recently had JF Bedard extend the centerboard case all the way through the open cockpit so that the forward bulkhead of the cuddy is stiffly connected to the aft bulkhead of the open cockpit. This cuts into the cockpit’s open space but greatly increases the stiffness and overall strength of the boat and much better connects what the two masts are doing as a single unit.

    Chances are I’ll be solo on my boat so I’ve fashioned the available space to suit my own needs and wants and not anyone else’s. Everything I need to survive will be within arm’s reach of the helm during the day and everything else will be available in the aft cabin while anchored at night. The ketch rig is a solo sailor’s “dream come true” as far as I can see and I can’t wait to try it out. Tacking with the proposed rig should be nearly effortless and it also presents well-balanced downwind sailing for the usual long Texas 200 downwind runs. I know that both masts will be easy to step as I’ve already stepped Muri-Maru’s mizzen mast many times as it is the main mast on my Saturday Night Special. The main mast for Muri-Maru is not that much bigger than her mizzen mast and the main will have a loading ramp to help keep the stepping effort down to a reasonable level for one guy like me. I should also be able to use the mizzen mast’s halyard line to help handle the main mast if that ever becomes necessary. Already having Muri-Maru’s mizzen mast and sail built means relatively short work for me in coming up with the rest of the rig. And I’m starting to get pretty good and efficient at spruce birdwing production.

    My immediate goal for Muri-Maru is to survive and complete the Texas 200 so that I can experience the free beer, boiled shrimp, and great party at Magnolia Beach at the end of the event. However, after a few years of sailing Muri-Maru, I may get more ambitious and start eyeing the Bahamas Islands 75 miles away from Florida. Who knows what the future may hold for an old saltwater brat and a good boat?

    Best regards,
    Ken
    Kenjamin, sure, the idea of having a genset aboard for powering whatever you choose, is not a bad one.
    I have fantasized about using one (a genet) to provide power for an electic drive prop rather than using primarily a battery for power, although, batteries and solar charging were also part of the plan.
    This was for a craft that was easily driven and had load carrying capacity too.
    So yep, I suppose that with a bit more money to spend, aircon could be included as well.
    However, getting this all into a craft of 17’ length, no way thanks’.
    Like you say – we are different people with different want's and needs!.
    One of my needs is to snchor away from revvy engines running all night.
    For me the better option would be to head out on the water, well away from mosquitos and sleep on deck.
    I sure hope you get some satisfaction completing this design and build project. It might be the best way for you to experience being afloat in a small space, which seems to be something that you do not have much time with, as part of your learning curve so far.

    Once you have built a watertight and well ventilated aft cabin with a decent size access hatchway, along with a sealed forward deck structure that also has an access hatch and is likewise watertight, it will be interesting to know the results of sailing and capsize tests. Also how much it all weighs and how habitation inside the cabins works out.
    cheers for now.
    Last edited by Lugalong; 08-30-2017 at 08:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    As far as the air conditioning goes, I'm with the go natural school of thought. We had one of those little Honda generators on a previous boat - a 35' catamaran - and no one, but no one could tolerate hearing it run. We used it very little because most of the time we had shore power or we could get by on whatever charge was in the house bank. They are incredibly reliable, ours always started even though it spent months at a time in a locker. And they're not noisy like a lawnmower, for example, but I still could not see sleeping with one running just a few feet from my head -- which is all the distance to be had in a small boat. We put ours on a rubber pad on deck to prevent the deck from resonating, and placed it as far away from the cabins as possible, but it was still endlessly annoying. Now add to that the sound of an air conditioner running directly overhead. Ay-yi-yi. You might just as well book me into a room at the local motel.
    -Dave

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Big windows that open.

    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    personally, I'd add 3 or 4 feet (in the middle), bringing it to 21' and have some elbow room

    I still like it as is, esp for the intended solo use

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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Now see? This is what I love about this forum. You guys just saved me $2500 in air-conditioning equipment. I'm slow but I do listen. I bought a good-sized battery operated fan ($20) at Walmart for my last excursion into Texas but never used it. It was one of the only pieces of equipment that somehow did not get soaked in saltwater during my first attempt at the Texas 200. I should also mention that the main reason I extended Muri-Maru's central cockpit space forward into the forward cabin space was to have enough length for the side benches so a 6' person could sleep on the side benches. I also have a one person (army issue) tent with mosquitoe netting so I could figure out a way to set that up in the open air of the central cockpit. Something else that I had not considered was the annoyance I could have caused folks who were trying to camp near me with my gen-set running all night.

    There is also the fact that I wanted to avoid carrying gasoline and hope to get electric auxiliary power for Muri-Maru. And like many people, listening to an outboard constantly for hours at a time gets really old for me, but I do have to admit my 4HP Yamaha four-stroke is a very quiet motor especially at 1/2 throttle. Whether I go electric or stick with my incredibly long-range gas outboard will probably depend on how much money I'll have left over after the Muri-Maru build. I'm guessing it won't be much but I really would prefer the electric route. The one big advantage of keeping Muri-Maru at 17' 5" is that when the battery gives out that's running my electric outboard, I could always row. It won't be fun rowing but rowing nonetheless.

    This was me motoring with my 4HP in the 2016 Texas 200. I was doing fine at this time. I was in the shade and didn't have to have a hat on so I was staying relatively cool if one can say that in 100F temperatures. I was motoring because I knew I could use the sunshade while not sailing and I was curious how far Bernadette could go on three gallons of gas. I had six more gallons available if I ran the three out but somehow I think I pinched the motor's fuel line and the motor died. I was so hot that I forgot to take the motor out of gear when trying to restart it so it felt like it had overheated and froze up. It was only when I returned to St. Augustine that they told me there was nothing wrong with the motor (just the operator). I had so much camping gear on the boat and the mud was so deep everywhere that it took more than an hour to rig for sail.

    Last edited by kenjamin; 08-31-2017 at 09:10 AM.

  20. #90
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
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    3,483

    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    This is the final rendering of Muri-Maru's hull with the thicker cuddy roof and with the centerboard case running from the forward cuddy bulkhead all the way aft to the aft cockpit bulkhead. Running the centerboard case straight through the cockpit space should stiffen the whole boat so less twisting as a result of the ketch rig and also a much stiffer centerboard case and centerboard. JF Bedard will be sending me full sized templates of all hull pieces and I plan to built the boat right side up on a cradle and mostly stitch and glue. Looking forward to building her this winter if my house is still standing after Hurricane Irma. Irma looks like a mean one. Today will be spent trimming my palm trees and harvesting bamboo that may beat down on my house's roof.


  21. #91
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    367

    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    You will curse stepping over that wall down the middle of the "lounge" and it will do little to stop twisting. The side seats will have a major structural effect stopping the twisting....

  22. #92
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    May 2005
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    The bigger problem is being able to see over the forward cuddy so you can pilot the boat. For that I've planned a couple of jump seats that fold down out of the aft cockpit bulkhead. My feet will being on the side bench and to tack and get to the other side of the boat I will probably be running across the top of the centerboard case rather than stepping over it. There will probably be a removable thwart or two that will make that possible. I'll probably be solo in the boat so if there's something I don't like about the boat, I've got a reciprocating saw and a 4 & 1/2" grinder to change it.


  23. #93
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Pennsylvania
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    7,714

    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Ken, Is there a reason the centerboard case can't be placed off-center to become part of the seat face? I also don't see how access to the aft cabin is handled. That wheel seems to sit where I would expect a companionway.

    That cockpit reminds me of the setup in this, otherwise, totally different boat. The seat runs across the back of the cockpit with the wheel low, forward and comfortable to handle, which also leaves easy access to the aft cabin. This is Dick Newick Argonauta trimaran, which never won a beauty contest but I've always admired the original thinking that went into it.

    -Dave

  24. #94
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Shore, Massachusetts
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    6,795

    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by kenjamin View Post
    Now see? This is what I love about this forum. You guys just saved me $2500 in air-conditioning equipment. I'm slow but I do listen. I bought a good-sized battery operated fan ($20) at Walmart for my last excursion into Texas but never used it. It was one of the only pieces of equipment that somehow did not get soaked in saltwater during my first attempt at the Texas 200. I should also mention that the main reason I extended Muri-Maru's central cockpit space forward into the forward cabin space was to have enough length for the side benches so a 6' person could sleep on the side benches. I also have a one person (army issue) tent with mosquitoe netting so I could figure out a way to set that up in the open air of the central cockpit. Something else that I had not considered was the annoyance I could have caused folks who were trying to camp near me with my gen-set running all night.

    There is also the fact that I wanted to avoid carrying gasoline and hope to get electric auxiliary power for Muri-Maru. And like many people, listening to an outboard constantly for hours at a time gets really old for me, but I do have to admit my 4HP Yamaha four-stroke is a very quiet motor especially at 1/2 throttle. Whether I go electric or stick with my incredibly long-range gas outboard will probably depend on how much money I'll have left over after the Muri-Maru build. I'm guessing it won't be much but I really would prefer the electric route. The one big advantage of keeping Muri-Maru at 17' 5" is that when the battery gives out that's running my electric outboard, I could always row. It won't be fun rowing but rowing nonetheless.

    This was me motoring with my 4HP in the 2016 Texas 200. I was doing fine at this time. I was in the shade and didn't have to have a hat on so I was staying relatively cool if one can say that in 100F temperatures. I was motoring because I knew I could use the sunshade while not sailing and I was curious how far Bernadette could go on three gallons of gas. I had six more gallons available if I ran the three out but somehow I think I pinched the motor's fuel line and the motor died. I was so hot that I forgot to take the motor out of gear when trying to restart it so it felt like it had overheated and froze up. It was only when I returned to St. Augustine that they told me there was nothing wrong with the motor (just the operator). I had so much camping gear on the boat and the mud was so deep everywhere that it took more than an hour to rig for sail.

    did you have the vent open on the gas tank?

  25. #95
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
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    3,483

    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Ken, Is there a reason the centerboard case can't be placed off-center to become part of the seat face? I also don't see how access to the aft cabin is handled. That wheel seems to sit where I would expect a companionway.

    That cockpit reminds me of the setup in this, otherwise, totally different boat. The seat runs across the back of the cockpit with the wheel low, forward and comfortable to handle, which also leaves easy access to the aft cabin. This is Dick Newick Argonauta trimaran, which never won a beauty contest but I've always admired the original thinking that went into it.

    Hey Woxbox, I'll probably be solo on boat so aft cabin is mostly flotation and long term storage – will only need to get in there at anchor. Everything I need for sailing and staying alive will be within arm's reach of the helm (under sunshade). The hatch for aft cabin is on roof and is a sliding hatch.

    No reason why centerboard could not be offset. Had an offset centerboard on my SCAMP and then on center for my Saturday Night Special and found I just like the centered design for Muri-Maru. It allows for a central control station directly in front of the helm where everything can be controlled and I especially like the lever arm on the Special that's part of the centerboard that allows for forcing centerboard up or down.

  26. #96
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Default Re: Muri-Maru, a 17' 5" birdwing Yangtze Pelican microcruiser

    Daniel, it could have been the air vent on tank but I believe I had sorted that out at the start of trip before I became dizzy from heatstroke. In truth, I'll never know what stopped the motor but a pinch in the nine foot fuel line was probably the culprit. The big mistake was forgetting to take motor out of gear for a restart. The heat had gotten to me by then so I just pulled up in the bushes and the three feet of mud and rigged for sail.

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