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Thread: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

  1. #1
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    Default Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

    I recently bought a Tammie Norrie (13'6") which came with a mast/yard/sail (brand new & unused). The builder made a very nice job of the woodwork, but I think maybe got a bit confused over the rig options. I believe there are 2 options specified on the plan, one with the main mast well forward and a mizzen on the transom and the other with the mast stepped further aft and no mizzen. On my boat the mast is in a very forward position but there is no mizzen. There is no boom, so I'm guessing it's intended to be rigged as a standing lug. In this configuration the centre of effort of the sail will be some way forward of the centre of effort of the centreboard, which could be somewhere between terrible and not very good!

    If someone with access to plans could furnish me with the mast positions (e.g. distance from the bow) of the two rig options, and the mainsail dimensions (does it differ between two rig options?) I would be very grateful. At least then I'll know from what point I'm starting with respect to the designer's intentions.






  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions



    The above is a copy of the relevant page from Iain's catelogue. I know Ed Pearson has(d) one so maybe he join in.

    Nick

  3. #3
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    Sep 2002
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

    I have the plans of one I built. Mast positions from stem as follows. Yawl (lug main) 2 ft. Single standing lug 2.5 ft.Gaff sloop 4ft.
    Mine ended up with a standing lug in the yawl position. I increased the size of the sail by 2 ft on the foot to compensate for the lack of mizen.
    This works fine.We enjoy the boat very much. Jeremy.

    PS size of current main. Approx. Foot 10ft Head 9ft Leach!3.25ft Diag 11.25 ft. I hasten to add that the designer was not involved in this
    tampering with the design.
    Last edited by Jeremy Burnett; 07-13-2017 at 02:31 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

    Add the mizzen.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

    Great, thanks for the replies - especially Jeremy's. I'm surprised the mast is only 6" further back for the single standing lug rig. I want to keep it very simple (single mast/sail) so I'll try it as it is and then look at adding area to the leech of the main if the lee helm is excessive.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

    Just to add that our sail is probably correctly called a balanced lug with a boom as in the yawl picture, not a standing one .

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

    Thanks for the clarification, that's useful. I may add a boom - I doubt the loose foot will sail all that well off the wind, although it will make rowing with the sail up rather less of a pain.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

    There is a proper sheet with the single balanced lug sail option. The top picture shows 4 different mast positions by the look of it.



    I'd ask the seller if he still has the plans, they would normally go with the boat with the new owner. If not write to Ian with a £20 for a copy of the sail plan and construction plan drawings sheet. I'm sure he'd furnish you. You need to measure your sail and spars to know exactly what your builder ordered, whilst look at the thwart placement etc to see exactly what he built, as in some cases it literraly connects to the rig. Iain's plans are beautifull whilst being technically very accurate, order a full set, you won't regret it. You might even enjoy your boat more. Post him a cheque or Classic Marine sell them.

    Personally, I'd go single balanced lug, as the TN is one of simple pleasures up a river or close inshore. One sail, easy up and down, no shrouds, with a a kicker. I think a mizzen would make a simple boat and simple lug rig, just more complicated again. 6 spars to make a 13ft boat go would be gilding the lilly, not to mention the weight aloft, slower to tack, aft distraction and slow speed drag to lift of a small mizzen. If you need the mizzen, your probably going further, then the Penny Fee or a bigger DE suits. It's also in the way aft with a rod.

    I wouldn't bodge it. I'd build a second mast foot or unscrew it and put it in the right position for the single sail, unless the mast support/ thwarts position etc are all different and dictate that you have to go yawl with your boat. You might have to adjust the riser positions for the correct mast support. You might be able to just squeeze shrouds past the yard that means you've only got a mast foot to consider. I built my Shearwater mast a foot longer to clear my yard...You can also play with mast rake, but if you ever want to resell it, it needs to be as original to the drawings as possible. I think I remember seeing that one on Ebay. It looked nice except for the floorboards were all in sections and narrow pieces like he'd run out of boards of wood? I'd replace them with some nice long boards, not square but shaped and spiled to the hull for aesthetics and keep the boards closely spaced, as everything else looked nicely done.

    Mine was 9mm mahogany/ spaeli which made it weigh more but made it a nice and docile boat with carry. It was proabably closer to design displacement and weight in the boat can help motion. If yours is 6mm Occume it will be alot lighter, good under oar but less stable without ballast depending on your wind conditions. You might need some ballast as Oughtred's can be a bit light as a bare Occume hull for the designed displacement out solo.

    When you row it, if your sat aft and the skeg is more immersed it will tend to run straight and not turn. If you sit forward the opposite. Fot slow/ medium speed rowing efficiency ideally your weight need to be at or slightly forward of the longitudinal center of buoyancy, if its marked on the plan. It might be set up for two rowing or one depending again on how the builder set the thwarts out. You can throw adjustable bag of sand ballast front or back to partially compensate solo.

    If your sail measures to the boomless standing lug, I'd still use it. You can use it to advantage with a brailling line for very civilised picnic stops with your partner. With a transom aft you should also be able to get a good sheeting angle. That's not a bad sail and rig for the TN at all.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 07-14-2017 at 06:02 AM.

  9. #9
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    Brightlingsea, Essex, UK
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

    That pic from the Classic Marine website is a bit misleading. The side elevation view which includes balanced lug rug has the mast somewhat further back than the other views which are I believe are for the yawl rig. On mine the front of the mast at thwart height (just below the gunwhale line) is 34" back from the front of the stem, so maybe it's in the right place after all.

    It is the boat you saw on EBay - as evidenced by the floorboards. They are something I was intending to change in time. A single balanced lug would be my first choice.

    I will see if I can get back in touch with the builder to see if he still has the plans - since he did the build it as a semi-retirement hobby project with no intention of using it he may have thrown them away.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBz View Post
    Thanks for the clarification, that's useful. I may add a boom - I doubt the loose foot will sail all that well off the wind, although it will make rowing with the sail up rather less of a pain.
    I would say you would be surprised how well it will go off the wind without a boom. It would definitely be worth a try. It certainly is a lovely thing to be below a boom-less sail. When going off the wind in my own standing lug Ilur, I keep the yard at a right angle to the centreline. That way there isn't too much twist in the sail. The slight reduction in sail area and speed is negligible and your going down wind so you are winning anyway! Certainly give it a go, and if you don't like it you can always add a boom.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBz View Post
    the centre of effort of the sail will be some way forward of the centre of effort of the centreboard, which could be somewhere between terrible and not very good!
    Well, that depends on how far forward, the SoE should be forward of the lateral plane of the wet part of the hull, not only the centerboard (which is what I guess you mean).
    How far forward depends on the hull shape, but my guess is that 10% of the length of the waterline should be about right.

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student and as a rigger apprentice http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/ in Swedish only, but there are many pictures :-)

  12. #12

    Default Re: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

    Todd Bradshaw has some interesting things to say about standing vs balanced lugs here

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...s-Standing-Lug

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie rig positions & dimensions

    I'm certainly going to try it as-is before I change anything. I'm much better at acquiring projects than I am at finishing them...

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