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Thread: I need some help - upstate New York

  1. #1
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    Default I need some help - upstate New York

    As you may or may not know, Alan H has a bit of a Scotland fetish. Well, on the west coast of Scotland, on the northern shore of the Clyde river, there are two lochs that veer off the river, northwards. They are Loch Long and the Gare Loch. Branching off of Loch Long is the Holy Loch, the site of the many-decades old US Nuclear Submarine base in Scotland. On the Gare Loch is the British nuclear submarine base. Anyway, these two Lochs have grown their own One-Design boats, which I've written about before on this forum.

    Here's a Gareloch Goddess...24 feet of poetry.


    An an article about them... http://www.helensburgh-heritage.co.u...ort&Itemid=496


    The other design is the Loch Long One Design, rather smaller at 21 feet but also a lovely, lovely little boat. You can read about them here: http://www.lochlong.net/about/









    Of the 141 Loch Long One Designs built, all that are known to still be afloat are either on Loch Long or at Aldeburgh, Sussex...except two. One is in Brazil, (not floating) as part of an art installation and the other is, after spending many years in New Jersey now in upstate New York.

    In fact, it's in a barn in Cherrytown, New York, on a trailer or a winter stand of some sort. It's apparently been stripped of finish, but stored inside so with luck it's not totally destroyed. And the thing is....the current owner will GIVE it to me. Free.

    A "free" wooden boat. In New York. I'm in California. Um... just slap me, now, right?

    But how cool would it be....I would sell the skerry... um. Um.

    Before I proceed any further with this insane idea, is there anybody in upstate New York who is somewhat knowledgeable about carvel construction who would be willing to go by and look at the boat? Maybe you all could take a few pictures? I need to find out if it's worth a huge investment in time energy and boat bucks to bring it out to California.
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  2. #2
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Actually, if someone is willing to go look at it, and IF they don't run away screaming, THEN I would inquire about a really good surveyor in the area to **really** get down and dirty with the boat. THEN, if there isn't more than, say....deck canvas to replace (almost for sure, I assume) and maybe one plank to replace....paint, varnish and all that other finish work (which takes preposterous amounts of time to do right) THEN.

    THEN

    maybe

    I would consider doing this irrational and insane act. But one step at a time.
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  3. #3
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan H View Post
    Actually, if someone is willing to go look at it, and IF they don't run away screaming, THEN I would inquire about a really good surveyor in the area to **really** get down and dirty with the boat. THEN, if there isn't more than, say....deck canvas to replace (almost for sure, I assume) and maybe one plank to replace....paint, varnish and all that other finish work (which takes preposterous amounts of time to do right) THEN.

    THEN

    maybe

    I would consider doing this irrational and insane act. But one step at a time.
    Irrational and insane is the wooden boat hobby. We need to embrace that(within our means) and be proud of it. I say if the OP has the ability to do right by the boat and it makes his heart go then he should do it. We're all friends here, we can stop pretending to be sane when inside the asylum.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Alan, I used google maps and it shows Cherrytown NY down south of the Catskills, that's 'downstate NY' . hope you find someone to look at it for you, looks like a neat boat. I go down that way once every 10 years or so and after going to Newark NJ last year, I swore I'd never go down there again.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Do you have a deadline for this? I live an hour away but have a family, work and another five cord to split.

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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Alan, just dropping in here after seeing your post in my "Free Boats" thread to say don't let me dissuade you from taking on this boat. The Loch Long OD is beautiful and I would fall in love too. It reminds me of a Dragon I was offered a few years back. It didn't need much, just paint and re-rigging, but I was deep into Perihelion at the time and there was no way for me to take it on. I say that if this boat is at all restorable you should go for it! Do you have any photos of the actual boat?
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    No deadline, Hreoaj. I'm calling the guy back again today to ask some questions. I mean, we probably can't wait until October, you know? Aside from that...

    Openboater, since I'm totally ignorant of New York geography.....THANKS!

    cstevens, Dragons are gorgeous. *Gorgeous*. Both a Dragon and this LLOD are a heck of a lot less work than Perihelion would have been. However, I'm still *Extremely* leery of a "big wood project" in any form. I remain completely convinced that the only wood boat projects that makes sense are A.) minor repairs, like replacing deck canvas, or repainting/revarnishing...maybe replacing a cockpit board. B.) you have so much money to burn that you can pay highly skilled craftsmen the hourly wage they deserve without thinking twice C.) glued lap plywood or stitch 'n glue <20 feet LOA.

    Everything else is impractical to the point of crazy. If the project costs more than a couple thousand dollars and will take more than 12 months of weekend + 1-night-a-week work, then it's grossly impractical and will almost certainly never be finished.

    I don't think I quite fit the caricature of the wide-eyed, enthusiastic, clueless 19 year-old in your thread! But STILL.....

    ---and it's in New York? And I'm in California? Nuts. The whole idea is nuts.
    Last edited by Alan H; 07-07-2017 at 01:08 PM.
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  8. #8
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Beautiful boat design. the heart wants what the heart wants.

    Alan - where would you bring home to work on her? I know where i would do this... Point San Pablo Yacht Club or the Aeolian YC. If you kept her on the trailer - the work would be quite possible provided she was suitable. If there is no rush - getting a trailer out there is the trick. If you get creative with a borrowed trailer then 1/3 of the problems are solved.
    There is nothing you can do with an ape/human hybrid. They'll rip your arm off.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    She'd live in my front yard. My skerry would have to go and the transom would overhang the fence a little bit. Alternatively, she could go in the side patio area but some landscaping would have to come out to pull that off....not happening. There is also a rather loosey-goosey storage facility about 3 blocks from my house. I'd need to buy a generator for power tools, but they do allow work there.

    Aeolian YC has room for stuff like that? I had no idea.

    The owner, who is now returning phone calls but it's a full day or two turnaround to exchange them, says the boat is on "a stand". What that means exactly, I don't know. If it's a winter storage stand, then I could purchase a largish flatbed utility trailer with a 1 ton axle off of craigslist and strap the thing down on it.
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  10. #10
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Alan, are you familiar with Uship?

    http://www.uship.com/
    - Chris

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Yeah, I have a request for a quote in with them and another company.
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Let me know Alan and I will do my besy for you.

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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    I doubt whether there's any such thing as an old wooden boat that's been in storage for years and just needs new deck canvas and one plank replacing. So if that is really your limit, forgeddaboudit right now. Best bet if you are serious is hop in the car and go have a look yourself.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    If that were it I would tell Alan that carpenter ants made a nest of the keel, her ribs are all cracked, and the stands broke through the planking and then keep her for myself. Not really. Anyway joking aside via PM Alan has confirmed there is much more to the story. Hopefully I can give Alan a good idea of condition soon.

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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Communicating with the owner is problematic, and it's become clear that he knows absolutely zero about boats of any type. Why on earth he took this thing in the first place is beyond me. He was unable to form the word "deck" when I asked him about the structure, and could only get out "top of the boat".

    it's also been sitting on a trailer for probably 10 years. It'll be a miracle if the hull isn't completely distorted.

    Phil, I'm not driving across the entirety of North America just for a little look-see. THANK YOU to. Hreoaj for offering to look her over and see if it's worth pursuing.
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  16. #16
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan H View Post
    Yeah, I have a request for a quote in with them and another company.
    I’ll watch this with interest and wish you all the best of luck with it Alan.

    Probably not possible given her length of 21’, but while getting quotes for shipment, I wonder if it’d be worth comparing it to shipping a 20’ container across country? Although the boat is 1’ longer than a 20’ container, I wonder if the draft would allow her to be set on a stand bow down so that it does fit? Shipping companies may find this easier to handle than a boat on a stand so may be more inclined to keep their quotes standard for such, rather than inflating them for the complexity of tying down and handling a boat.
    Larks

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    IF... IF..... this all comes to pass.

    And I am keeping in mind that the whole idea is completely stark raving mad, impractical, expensive and irrational.

    But IF.

    Then I will fly out there for 4-5 days to inspect, and somehow box/crate/wrap/buy trailer or who knows what top get it out here.
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  18. #18
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    I could just buy a nifty local Nunes Brothers-built plywood Mercury and restore that for 1/5th the hassle. There's even a local one-design. Or I could buy a Bear Boat, or dig up that old CL ad for the Ostkust that was put up last year. I mean, I really LIKE the Ostkust. But Nooooooooo.....

    Admittendly, this boat is 1/3rd less "structure" than an Ostkust, or a. Bear, and therefore 30% more like to ever float again.
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  19. #19
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    What's her beam?

    Might she fit into a 24' Uhaul?

    Alex

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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    What's her beam?

    Might she fit into a 24' Uhaul?

    Alex
    This from the link above - wow.....a very narrow beam

    Description: Wooden, sloop rigged keelboat
    Designed by: James Croll, 1937
    Handicap: (Alde) 1176
    Boats registered: sixty three (2016)
    Length: 6400mm
    Beam: 875mm
    Draft: 588mm
    Displacement: 544kg
    Sail Area: Main 14m2
    . Jib 4m2
    . Spinnaker 17m2



    This looks better, from Wiki
    Hull weight 544 kg (1,199 lb)
    LOA 6.4 m (21 ft 0 in)
    LWL 4.65 m (15 ft 3 in)
    Beam 1.78 m (5 ft 10 in)
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Thanks, Larks.

    She'd almost certainly fit neatly into a 24' Uhaul. The only questions would be her height, from the underside of her "stand" (cradle?) to the top of her cuddy (I don't trust that her draft is only 588mm!), and her beam *including* the "stand", which I doubt would be a problem.

    And, of course, whether you feel up to wriggling her into and out of the truck. 1200# isn't too bad to move around, with a good jack, rollers, and a come-along, and a couple long 4x6 timber ramps, but it does take some planning.

    I know it sounds a bit hillbilly, but you could possibly even lash her mast on top of the truck, or along the passenger side, since it'll almost certainly be longer than the boat's LOA.

    I've made a lot of Uhaul moves, and their equipment is pretty good. And the 24' trucks are a newer model that are replacing the old 21s, so you aren't likely to get a beater. I'm looking at needing to move a 14' catboat from ME to WA in the next few years, and flying east and bringing her west in a 17' Uhaul is my current first option.

    Alex

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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Now here's an idea I hadn't thought of. A U-Haul truck. That would almost certainly be a cushier ride than some 10+ year old thrashed trailer. And the "cabin" ...just a little cuddy top, is already removed, so that's 8 inches less height. Great idea....Thanks!
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  23. #23
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    And Ryder has a slightly larger truck than Uhaul ( if you need a tad more room).

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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    So the boat was "observed." After speaking to Alan privately I will tell the story here.

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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Life's too short to waste it with a boat that doesn't suit you as thoroughly as possible, Alan. I never thought that Skerry really fit the bill for your situation. You should totally get a boat that is mesmerizing to you instead. You deserve it.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    I've had fun with the skerry, James, but it's not been what I thought it was going to be. Honestly, I enjoy rowing it better than sailing it, which is a good lesson. It just doesn't feel "substantial" as a sailbaot. It's been a good "in between" boat, but as we've reviewed before, the reason I bought it is not really a viable way of sailing here on SF Bay. I now have a 26 foot S2 7.9 ('glass boat), and I'm having a great time with her.

    If the LLOD doesn't work out, and it sounds like it probably won't, I might (maybe) build one of Flo Mo's rowing designs, or other 14-15 foot rowing-oriented boat. I discovered that I liked rowing, through the skerry.

    ..though kinda sucks if Lufra is a wreck, now. In fact, that sucks a lot.
    Last edited by Alan H; 07-17-2017 at 03:33 PM.
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  27. #27
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Alright so Alan and I had a chance to speak. Here is the convoluted deal. I dropped my family off at our cousin's so the kids could play together. I arrived at the location of the boat and was greeted by a woman, Simone, that was not altogether pleased with my presence. I introduced myself as cordially as possible and her tone changed somewhat. Initially her disposition was adamant in the simple fact that the boat belonged to her and her along as per their divorce proceedings. Yes divorce, it was immediately a tricky situation and I had only driven an hour to be their. I'm glad Alan didn't fly out on the auspices of the pretending Steven, who was at the beginning not to be found. Simone agreed to let me see and photograph the boat reluctantly but was warming up. I had meant to do right by Alan and arrived with lights, tools, and measuring tape. I failed him horribly. Steven arrived and Simone had many pointed questions about how I had heard about this boat and for that matter how a man in California knew of it. I blamed it all on Alan of course. Anyway the plan of spending several hours photographing and measuring this boat for Alan so he would both have a grasp of condition and shipping requirements went out the window. The domestic issues became very uncomfortable and my time with the boat was a measly twenty minutes. The boat is on plywood sheet cradles insulated with old carpet. Tie down straps are helping keep her beam sucked in. The lead and deadwood have been removed, lead was somewhere in an outbuilding but not available to me, the deadwood felt in good shape. There were also two metal plates Steven said sat atop the keel, but the through bolts were in a box somewhere. I did see a ferrous lag screw at the fore of the deadwood. The planking was mostly sound and not that badly separated for being dry as near as my inexperienced eye could tell. I only found one spline repair. The only bad rot was at the sheer. There were many cracked ribs up forward. Again my apologies to Alan as I had wanted to count and document but only a few rushed photos were taken. There had been some sistering and epoxy in other places, also a few different fasteners used. The planks appeared to me to have been copper clinch nailed but again I did not have the access needed. There was a piece of sheet metal and other scrap wood laying on her deck beams I could not move. I peeked in with the camera only. The deck beams were being supported by scrap dimensional lumber and had a lot of movement when I grabbed them. The decking was in a different out building and looked like removable ply sections. I moved some old three tab shingle sheets off of them to snap one photo. The cabin top looked like teak, tongue and groove, not what I was expecting from Alan's photos. Steven said the rest of the hardware was all there in boxes. He then retreated to the house.

    I spoke a bit more with Simone who ended up being very friendly. Steven who was weird with Alan on the phone was pretty much a jerk during this visit. He was a child, sulking after being caught spitefully trying to hurt his wife during a divorce. Regardless I gave Simone what little insight I could into the boat's design and what it would take to restore it. The boat has sat untouched for ten years so I can only imagine her attachment is emotional and this boat will sit another ten years untouched. Simone asked me to share her contact information with Alan and we said goodbye. I took the family to a street/music festival and Simone happened to be there and found me. This time she asked me to have Alan call her. Hopefully reality will set in and maybe it will work out for both Alan and the boat which deserves better. At least Simone will be much better to deal with than Steven.

    I want to thank Alan for this dramatic adventure which I did enjoy as I had no emotional attachment to. I hope it wasn't too terrible for Alan who after being offered a free boat by a man that had no rights to it sat patiently hoping and dreaming only to be dashed on a lee shore. If anyone else needs help ruining their day please do not hesitate to ask. Hopefully though the boat is released to Alan or anyone else for that matter with the right ambition.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Hreoaj View Post
    Alright so Alan and I had a chance to speak. Here is the convoluted deal.
    .
    .
    .


    I want to thank Alan for this dramatic adventure which I did enjoy as I had no emotional attachment to. I hope it wasn't too terrible for Alan who after being offered a free boat by a man that had no rights to it sat patiently hoping and dreaming only to be dashed on a lee shore. If anyone else needs help ruining their day please do not hesitate to ask. Hopefully though the boat is released to Alan or anyone else for that matter with the right ambition.
    Thanks again for making the trip, I really appreciate it. Yeah, it would have been a disaster to fly out there on Steven's word, but I was starting to "get" that by the time we talked.

    The ballast keel is "there", but you didn't see it. So is it really there? Because if it's not, there's about $3000 or more to have another one cast. I'm up for repairing a few ribs... but not a third of them, forward of the cabintop. As we said, that the deck was plywood is very odd, the boat was originally made in 1960 and while plywood was obviously available, class rules don't allow it.

    I think this is going to be a "pass" I'm afraid. I'd like to speak to Simone, so looking forward to getting her number. The Facebook contact didn't pan out.
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  29. #29
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Wonderful thread. I've been lurking with glee.

    Nice job hreoaj

  30. #30
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Hreoaj has sent me photos...not as many as we'd hoped, but a reasonable number to make an initial judgement on how things are going. If folks would like to see them, and with Hreoaj's permission, I can upload them to a web server and you all can weigh in on your thoughts. The boat is on a plywood cradle with high-load wheels, and this has probably saved the vessel from complete distortion and destruction.

    I'm pretty sure this project is far beyond my skill level and time available.
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  31. #31
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    The WBF at its best!

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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Well done Hereoaj, sounds like quite the soap opera going on there!

  33. #33
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    Wonderful thread. I've been lurking with glee.

    Nice job hreoaj
    Thank you for letting us in on this thread. hreaoj deserves a sincere WBF declaration of appreciation to the service.
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  34. #34
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    Default Re: I need some help - upstate New York

    Alan I have no problems what so ever with you sharing them. They are yours now.

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