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Thread: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    John M. Coski is the author of The Confederate Battle Flag: America’s Most Embattled Emblem (Harvard University Press, 2005).

    It's not an American emblem.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    What does the flag represent to you?

    Jeff C
    the culture and heritage of the South... certainly not slavery and the North's hate. that's what is so important to the complainers, the complete subjugation of the South
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    the culture and heritage of the South... certainly not slavery and the North's hate. that's what is so important to the complainers, the complete subjugation of the South
    And what is this culture and heritage you speak of?Your culture and heritage relied on slaves.Get real PA!

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    And what is this culture and heritage you speak of?
    do you actually think this can be summed up as easily as the hate the north has for the South? one word? sum upergfv the heritage of any nation in one word
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    do you actually think this can be summed up as easily as the hate the north has for the South? one word? sum upergfv the heritage of any nation in one word
    Did I mention "HATE"?No I didn't!Seems that YOU did though.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    And what is this culture and heritage you speak of?Your culture and heritage relied on slaves.Get real PA!
    Meghan says to tell you that the short version of Southern heritage is fried Twinkies and boiled peanuts... other than the summing up a country's heritage on the scale you seem to demand is idiocy
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    Meghan says to tell you that the short version of Southern heritage is fried Twinkies and boiled peanuts... other than the summing up a country's heritage on the scale you seem to demand is idiocy
    That's right, Twinkies were a staple in the civil war. And slaves harvested the peanuts. Oh wait, peanuts didn't even exist in the civil war. George Washington Carver has something to say about peanuts.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    That's right, Twinkies were a staple in the civil war. And slaves harvested the peanuts. Oh wait, peanuts didn't even exist in the civil war. George Washington Carver has something to say about peanuts.
    now she says to just agree with you as you cannot be fixed
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    now she says to just agree with you as you cannot be fixed
    Following in her daddy's footsteps. Tell to go back to school or she'll end up a brick layer.!

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    Following in her daddy's footsteps. Tell to go back to school or she'll end up a brick layer.!
    what's wrong with being a brick layer she says

    she does say that if worse comes to worse and she can't find work anywhere else, she'll just become a teacher
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    Meghan says to tell you that the short version of Southern heritage is fried Twinkies and boiled peanuts... other than the summing up a country's heritage on the scale you seem to demand is idiocy
    Well, you can tell Meghan that fried Twinkies and boiled peanuts are a pretty sad 'heritage' for a country that hasn't existed for 152 years, had as its founding principle the subjugation, sale and exploitation of an entire race of people and got itself beaten to a pulp for its trouble.

    The real question, Mr. Allen, is why do we have a substantial minority of people who actually believe they are heirs to the 'heritage' of a bunch of rich, old white guys who committed treason because they were being denied the ability to own other people?

    What, you don't know? OK, I'll tell you why.

    It is because the US abandoned those former slaves/new citizens to the tender mercies of your 'heritage', whereupon they were strung up by the neck by your precious, treasonous mob of 'founding fathers', and left to rot, as a warning to other of their status who may dare to challenge the White Supremacist Cabal.

    When the Allies overran Dachau, they encountered the work of inhuman monsters, and the world has recoiled in horror at that thought for 80-odd years, now. The Nazis were punished severely, and Germany was put on a VERY short leash. Even today, Germans are guided by the consequences of their past behavior. They have done a MAGNIFICENT job.

    I'm pretty sure that flying a Nazi flag in Germany carries VERY stiff penalties, because that flag symbolizes the horror of Dachau, Aushwitz-Birkenau and Belzec.



    The Confederate battle flag, on the other hand, symbolizes fried Twinkies and boiled peanuts.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    what's wrong with being a brick layer she says

    she does say that if worse comes to worse and she can't find work anywhere else, she'll just become a teacher
    In the Arkie school system! I hope it's first, second or third grade where she can teach her kids the three "Rs" and I pray she isn't teaching History.
    Last edited by S.V. Airlie; 07-04-2017 at 05:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    I was born in Mississippi and have lived all my life in the South. I still don't understand the need to use symbols of a war that the South lost to symbolize the heritage and culture. Why not use an alligator or a bald cypress or Jimmy 'Duck' Holmes hands and guitar.


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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Well, you can tell Meghan that fried Twinkies and boiled peanuts are a pretty sad 'heritage' for a country that hasn't existed for 152 years, had as its founding principle the subjugation, sale and exploitation of an entire race of people and got itself beaten to a pulp for its trouble.

    The real question, Mr. Allen, is why do we have a substantial minority of people who actually believe they are heirs to the 'heritage' of a bunch of rich, old white guys who committed treason because they were being denied the ability to own other people?

    What, you don't know? OK, I'll tell you why.

    It is because the US abandoned those former slaves/new citizens to the tender mercies of your 'heritage', whereupon they were strung up by the neck by your precious, treasonous mob of 'founding fathers', and left to rot, as a warning to other of their status who may dare to challenge the White Supremacist Cabal.

    When the Allies overran Dachau, they encountered the work of inhuman monsters, and the world has recoiled in horror at that thought for 80-odd years, now. The Nazis were punished severely, and Germany was put on a VERY short leash. Even today, Germans are guided by the consequences of their past behavior. They have done a MAGNIFICENT job.

    I'm pretty sure that flying a Nazi flag in Germany carries VERY stiff penalties, because that flag symbolizes the horror of Dachau, Aushwitz-Birkenau and Belzec.



    The Confederate battle flag, on the other hand, symbolizes fried Twinkies and boiled peanuts.
    Well said.

    However I'll bet that generates a whooshing sound.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    I was born in Mississippi and have lived all my life in the South. I still don't understand the need to use symbols of a war that the South lost to symbolize the heritage and culture. Why not use an alligator or a bald cypress or Jimmy 'Duck' Holmes hands and guitar.
    Exactly. A lot of my ancestors are from the south, and there's a lot good about southern culture. Out of all the possible symbols, why in the world would one pick the flag flown in the war fought to preserve slavery? What else could so effectively symbolize the very worst of southern history? A slave auction block? A whip?
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 07-04-2017 at 05:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Exactly. A lot of my ancestors are from the south, and there's a lot good about southern culture. Out of all the possible symbols, why in the world would one pick the flag flown in the war fought to preserve slavery? What else could so effectively symbolize the very worst of southern history? A slave auction block? A whip?
    if symbols are as pointless as Jimmy W seems to think... why do you fellas in the north so interested in destroying them?
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Why would I want to 'destroy' anything? I couldn't if I wanted to. It's a free country, the First Amendment protects your right to do a whole lot of seriously obnoxious things, and if you want to fly a Confederate flag, go ahead; I won't stop you. But why would you want to? And JimmyW didn't say symbols are meaningless, just the the flag is a lousy one. I agree with him.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Exactly. A lot of my ancestors are from the south, and there's a lot good about southern culture. Out of all the possible symbols, why in the world would one pick the flag flown in the war fought to preserve slavery? What else could so effectively symbolize the very worst of southern history? A slave auction block? A whip?
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    if symbols are as pointless as Jimmy W seems to think... why do you fellas in the north so interested in destroying them?
    First, Keith doesn't think that symbols are pointless, and neither does Jimmy. Just because you WISH it were so does not make it so.


    You were supposed to learn that in kindergarten.


    Jimmy says that, if the South wants a symbol of the good things in the South, there are any number of choices.



    Keith says that, if the South wants a symbol of hatred, oppression, racism, economic injustice and ignorance, it would be difficult to do better than the Confederate Battle Flag.

    Neither of these good, patient, kind, indulgent gentlemen said that symbols are pointless.



    You WISH symbols were pointless, so that you could fly the CBF and believe in your benighted heart that it symbolizes fried Twinkies and boiled peanuts.

    It doesn't.

    That flag symbolizes white supremacy, racism, slavery, xenophobia and economic oppression.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    The use of that flag was resurrected in the South as a symbol of protest against desegregation. If you want to celebrate boiled peanuts how about this one instead. It is bigly betterer.


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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    To me, the battle flag symbolizes that my ancestors fought for the wrong cause and got their butt whupped. I'm sure that they thought that God was on their side, but God sure didn't save them from a whupping.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Anybody else hear Terri Gross' interview of Rhiannon Giddens as couple of days ago?
    She had done a study of the writings and interviews of ex slaves, including advertisements of slaves for sale. A very emotional Giddens told of reading a newspaper ad in which someone was selling a 20 year old woman. The ad pointed out that she had a 9 month old child, which was also available if the buyer so chose.
    ITS CHAOS, BE KIND

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    I missed the interview, but have the CD.



    At The Purchaser's Option - Rhiannon Giddens


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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Rhiannon Giddens - Cry No More


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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Worth a listen.

    Smiley gets it right much more often than wrong.

    http://www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/...annon-giddens/

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Thanks, John. Anyone that follows Byob knows that I love that lady and have since the Carolina Chocolate Drops days.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    The Confederate Battle Flag was not flown to preserve fried Twinkies and to defend it for that is pure lunacy.




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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    I was saying (as you should know) that the culture is changing with the influx of people foreign to the culture/heritage of the old south... nothing to do with slavery... that is the mantra of others
    My state no longer wishes to be identified with "The Old South". That's a big reason we the people of GA voted to remove a symbol that has become an embarrassment from our flag. Things have changed here.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Similar to Jimmy, I was born and raised in Mississippi. I have lived in this State most of my life. I have said it here before and will say it again, that terrible rag should not fly in the place of honor over any public property. To a significant number of my friends that flag represents hatred, oppression, rape, murder, the list goes on and on. No symbol that causes so much grief should be any part of a state flag.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by JTA View Post
    Similar to Jimmy, I was born and raised in Mississippi. I have lived in this State most of my life. I have said it here before and will say it again, that terrible rag should not fly in the place of honor over any public property. To a significant number of my friends that flag represents hatred, oppression, rape, murder, the list goes on and on. No symbol that causes so much grief should be any part of a state flag.
    I spent most of my teens and twenties in Starkville.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Well, you can tell Meghan that fried Twinkies and boiled peanuts are a pretty sad 'heritage' for a country that hasn't existed for 152 years, had as its founding principle the subjugation, sale and exploitation of an entire race of people and got itself beaten to a pulp for its trouble.

    The real question, Mr. Allen, is why do we have a substantial minority of people who actually believe they are heirs to the 'heritage' of a bunch of rich, old white guys who committed treason because they were being denied the ability to own other people?

    What, you don't know? OK, I'll tell you why.

    It is because the US abandoned those former slaves/new citizens to the tender mercies of your 'heritage', whereupon they were strung up by the neck by your precious, treasonous mob of 'founding fathers', and left to rot, as a warning to other of their status who may dare to challenge the White Supremacist Cabal.

    When the Allies overran Dachau, they encountered the work of inhuman monsters, and the world has recoiled in horror at that thought for 80-odd years, now. The Nazis were punished severely, and Germany was put on a VERY short leash. Even today, Germans are guided by the consequences of their past behavior. They have done a MAGNIFICENT job.

    I'm pretty sure that flying a Nazi flag in Germany carries VERY stiff penalties, because that flag symbolizes the horror of Dachau, Aushwitz-Birkenau and Belzec.



    The Confederate battle flag, on the other hand, symbolizes fried Twinkies and boiled peanuts.
    FREAKING BRILLIANT RETORT !!!! Thank you Mr. Oznabrag
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    To me, the battle flag symbolizes that my ancestors fought for the wrong cause and got their butt whupped. I'm sure that they thought that God was on their side, but God sure didn't save them from a whupping.
    Archibald Foster was a Virginia Merchant and Doctor. He was a graduate of William & Mary and one of the first graduates of The University of Pennsylvania he did his medical dissertation on tic douloureux. He also was a slave owning racist and a son of the confederacy. He had two sons Francis and John. Francis died at Appomattox as a confederate soldier he is proudly buried at foot of his father's grave in a family plot in Portsmouth Virginia. John, who I am obviously a descendant of carpetbagged his way up to New York and was reviled and cut off by his father and family for his opposition to the confederacy and slavery. When doing our genealogy it was only through the letters of his mother that coneected the Virginia Fosters to the New York Fosters.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Many people fly the rebel flag for the same reason they voted for The Trump. They won't own up to their own failures to educate and improve themselves. They'd rather cast the blame on blacks, Jews, Hispanics, green energy, CNN, Hybrid cars, soy lattes, or any one of a hundred other scapegoats.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Soy Lattes are the devil - just saying
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    My state no longer wishes to be identified with "The Old South". That's a big reason we the people of GA voted to remove a symbol that has become an embarrassment from our flag. Things have changed here.
    yes, things have changed. the thought police have invaded and now tell us just what WE think...
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Who™ ?
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