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Thread: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

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    Lightbulb Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Interesting reading.

    For full story go to

    http://www.historynet.com/embattled-...erate-flag.htm


    Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag



    BY JOHN M. COSKI
    7/9/2015 • CIVIL WAR TIMES


    (Museum of the Confederacy, Richmond, VA)
    Ifyou are a regular reader of Civil War Times, the Confederate battle flag is a familiar part of your world. The symbolism of the flag is simple and straightforward: It represents the Confederate side in the war that you enjoy studying. More than likely, your knowledge of the flag has expanded and become more sophisticated over the years. At some point, you learned that the Confederate battle flag was not, in fact, “the Confederate flag” and was not known as the “Stars and Bars.” That name properly belongs to the first national flag of the Confederacy. If you studied the war in the Western and Trans-Mississippi theaters, you learned that “Confederate battle flag” is a misnomer. Many Confederate units served under battle flags that looked nothing like the red flag with the star-studded blue cross. You may have grown up with more than just an idle knowledge of the flag’s association with the Confederacy and its armies, but also with a reverence for the flag because of its association with Confederate ancestors. If you didn’t, your interest in the war likely brought you into contact with people who have a strong emotional connection with the flag. And, at some point in your life, you became aware that not everyone shared your perception of the Confederate flag. If you weren’t aware of this before, the unprecedented flurry of events and of public reaction to them that occurred in June 2015 have raised obvious questions that all students of Civil War history must confront: Why do people have such different and often conflicting perceptions of what the Confederate flag means, and how did those different meanings evolve?

    John M. Coski is the author of The Confederate Battle Flag: America’s Most Embattled Emblem (Harvard University Press, 2005).
    Standing by to be advised that it is incorrect.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    I feel triggered.



    In other interesting news I was making a site visit yesterday to a cemetery and in the Asian section (their name not mine) was a small headstone with a swastica on it and the rest printed in Japanese. With a box of cookies next to it. The symbol is known as a manji and in a box orientation (contrasted tot he diamond orientation of the nazi) is still very popular in Japan.
    Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    A confederate flag thread the day before the 4th of July.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Regardless of the flag's other history, it was the flag flown as Nathan Bedford Forrest's battle flag and Forrest was an early member of the KKK. It is the flag which was added to the Georgia state flag in 1956.
    "1956 General Assembly changed the state flag" during "an atmosphere of preserving segregation and resentment" to the U.S. government's rulings on integration.
    It is the flag that racists like Dylann Roof like to wave.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    Regardless of the flag's other history, it was the flag flown as Nathan Bedford Forrest's battle flag and Forrest was an early member of the KKK. It is the flag which was added to the Georgia state flag in 1956.
    It is the flag that racists like Dylann Roof like to wave.

    'the flag's 'other' history?

    There is more than one history?

    Shades of:


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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    It is the flag which was added to the Georgia state flag in 1956. .
    And it was removed in 2003.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    'the flag's 'other' history?

    There is more than one history?

    Shades of:

    If you will examine your graphic closely, it seems to state your position perfectly.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Why would anyone in 2017 want to fly any flag of the Confederate States of America, founded for the express and declared purpose of defending slavery? One example from 1861, in their own words:

    Mississippi Declaration of Secession

    A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union:

    In the momentous step, which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

    Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

    That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.

    The hostility to this institution commenced before the adoption of the Constitution, and was manifested in the well-known Ordinance of 1787, in regard to the Northwestern Territory.

    The feeling increased, until, in 1819-20, it deprived the South of more than half the vast territory acquired from France.
    The same hostility dismembered Texas and seized upon all the territory acquired from Mexico.

    It has grown until it denies the right of property in slaves, and refuses protection to that right on the high seas, in the Territories, and wherever the government of the United States had jurisdiction.

    It refuses the admission of new slave States into the Union, and seeks to extinguish it by confining it within its present limits, denying the power of expansion.

    It tramples the original equality of the South under foot.

    It has nullified the Fugitive Slave Law in almost every free State in the Union, and has utterly broken the compact, which our fathers pledged their faith to maintain.

    It advocates negro equality, socially and politically, and promotes insurrection and incendiarism in our midst.

    It has enlisted its press, its pulpit and its schools against us, until the whole popular mind of the North is excited and inflamed with prejudice.

    It has made combinations and formed associations to carry out its schemes of emancipation in the States and wherever else slavery exists.

    It seeks not to elevate or to support the slave, but to destroy his present condition without providing a better.

    It has invaded a State, and invested with the honors of martyrdom the wretch whose purpose was to apply flames to our dwellings, and the weapons of destruction to our lives.

    It has broken every compact into which it has entered for our security.

    It has given indubitable evidence of its design to ruin our agriculture, to prostrate our industrial pursuits and to destroy our social system.

    It knows no relenting or hesitation in its purposes; it stops not in its march of aggression, and leaves us no room to hope for cessation or for pause.

    It has recently obtained control of the Government, by the prosecution of its unhallowed schemes, and destroyed the last expectation of living together in friendship and brotherhood.

    Utter subjugation awaits us in the Union, if we should consent longer to remain in it. It is not a matter of choice, but of necessity. We must either submit to degradation, and to the loss of property worth four billions of money, or we must secede from the Union framed by our fathers, to secure this as well as every other species of property. For far less cause than this, our fathers separated from the Crown of England.

    Our decision is made. We follow their footsteps. We embrace the alternative of separation; and for the reasons here stated, we resolve to maintain our rights with the full consciousness of the justice of our course, and the undoubting belief of our ability to maintain it.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Why would anyone in 2017 want to fly any flag of the Confederate States of America...
    'cause they be trolling?

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Interesting reading.

    For full story go to

    http://www.historynet.com/embattled-...erate-flag.htm



    Standing by to be advised that it is incorrect.
    Let's look at it another way--why don't you advise us as to why it is not incorrect. Did you read the full article? What are the essential elements of the article? Why do you find it compelling?

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    the left's new trump card is "it represents slavery"
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    the left's new trump card is "it represents slavery"
    What does the flag represent to you?

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    the left's new trump card is "it represents slavery"
    You say this like it is a game.


    That flag represents slavery, and it always has.

    The men who fought under that flag had every reason under the Sun to fight.

    The ones who declared war only wanted one thing: slavery, and the mountains of cash they got from it.

    These people are precisely the same sort of inhuman monsters who, today, want to strip 25 million people of their healthcare, so they can get several trillion dollars in tax breaks.

    In point of fact, they are the political descendants of those monsters.

    Anti-humanitarian, anti-Constitution and anti-American.


    Defend them if you must, but know that kind of slime doesn't wash off.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    What does the flag represent to you?

    Jeff C
    Lots and lots of guns? A total wet dream?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    What does the flag represent to you?
    Jeff C
    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Lots and lots of guns? A total wet dream?
    The loss of over 600,000 lives (about 1 in 50 of the then population) .

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    .
    This thread seems like a good place to place this:

    CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. — Archeologists have excavated an area of Thomas Jefferson’s Monticello mansion that has astounded even the most experienced social scientists: The living quarters of Sally Hemings, the enslaved woman who, historians believe, gave birth to six of Jefferson’s children.“This discovery gives us a sense of how enslaved people were living. Some of Sally’s children may have been born in this room,” said Gardiner Hallock, director of restoration for Jefferson’s mountaintop plantation, standing on a red-dirt floor inside a dusty rubble-stone room built in 1809. “It’s important because it shows Sally as a human being — a mother, daughter, and sister — and brings out the relationships in her life.”



    Archaeologists investigate Monticello's South Wing Thomas Jefferson Foundation at Monticello


    Hemings’ living quarters was adjacent to Jefferson’s bedroom but she remains something of an enigma: there are only four known descriptions of her. Enslaved blacksmith Isaac Granger Jefferson recalled that Hemings was “mighty near white . . . very handsome, long straight hair down her back."
    Her room — 14 feet, 8 inches wide and 13 feet long — went unnoticed for decades. The space was converted into a men’s bathroom in 1941, considered by some as the final insult to Hemings’ legacy.

    “For the first time at Monticello we have a physical space dedicated to Sally Hemings and her life,” Mia Magruder Dammann, a spokeswoman for Monticello, told NBCBLK. “It’s significant because it connects the entire African American arch at Monticello.”

    By the late 1960s, Magruder said, the earlier bathrooms had become too small to accommodate Monticello’s growing number of visitors so local restoration architect Floyd Johnson renovated and enlarged the bathrooms in 1967.

    But recently, historians studied a description provided long ago by a grandson of Jefferson who placed Hemings’ room in the home’s South Wing.
    So archeologists started digging.



    This room, part of the South Dependency of Monticello is going to be restored as the residence of Sally Hemings. Monticello is currently working to more fully integrate the stories of the enslaved at the historic plantation, Tuesday February 6, 2017. Norm Shafer / The Washington Post/Getty Images


    Fraser Neiman, director of archeology at Monticello, said Hemings’ quarters revealed the original brick hearth and fireplace, the brick structure for a stove and the original floors from the early 1800s.

    “This room is a real connection to the past,” Neiman said. “We are uncovering and discovering and we’re finding many, many artifacts.”

    The Mountaintop Project is a multi-year, $35-million effort to restore Monticello as Jefferson knew it, and to tell the stories of the people — enslaved and free — who lived and worked on the 5,000-acre Virginia plantation.

    In an effort to bring transparency to the grounds' difficult past, there are tours that focus solely on the experiences of the enslaved people who lived and labored there, as well as a Hemings Family tour.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    .
    conclusion:

    Monticello unveiled the restoration of Mulberry Row in 2015, which includes the re-creation of two slave-related buildings, the “storehouse for iron” and the Hemings cabin. In May 2015, more than 100 descendants of enslaved families participated in a tree-planting ceremony to commemorate the new buildings.



    Descendants of Monticello’s enslaved families in the Kitchen Yard, above Mulberry Row in 2016 Thomas Jefferson Foundation at Monticello


    And today, Hemings’ room is being restored for eventual public viewing. Monticello’s curators are working diligently to incorporate Hemings’ life as part of Jefferson’s comprehensive story, which counters old newspaper accounts citing Hemings as Jefferson’s “concubine."

    Gayle Jessup White, Monticello’s Community Engagement Officer, is a descendant of the Hemings and Jefferson families and an integral part of Monticello’s African American legacy: Sally Hemings was White’s great-great-great-great aunt.

    White first learned of her Jefferson family lineage as a young girl and years later, she still ponders the emotional complexities associated with Jefferson, the third president of the United States, the author of the Declaration of Independence — and an unapologetic proprietor who enslaved 600 people.

    “As an African American descendant, I have mixed feelings — Thomas Jefferson was a slave holder,” White said.



    Niya Bates, Public Historian of Slavery and African American Life (left) stands with Gayle Jessup White, Monticello’s Community Engagement Officer (right). Ryan M. Kelly / The Daily Progress


    “I am appreciative of the work that my colleagues are doing at Monticello because this is an American story, an important story,” she said. “But for too long our history has been ignored. Some people still don’t want to admit that the Civil War was fought over slavery. We need to face history head-on and face the blemish of slavery and that’s what we’re doing at Monticello.”

    White took the job at Monticello in July, 2016 and says her role is to help build a bridge between Monticello and the local community.

    “We have a great story on the mountaintop, an inclusive story,” White said. “We’re telling a complete story. We’re not just talking about Thomas Jefferson and his family, we’re talking about the enslaved people and their families, too.”

    Last year, Monticello, along with the National Endowment for the Humanities and the University of Virginia, hosted a public race summit entitled, Memory, Mourning, Mobilization: Legacies of Slavery and Freedom in America. It featured leading academics like Dr. Henry Louis Gates, Jr. and Annette Gordon-Reed, artists like Nikki Giovanni, activists like Bree Newsome, descendants of Monticello’s enslaved families and community members.

    White said the local African American community has not always embraced Monticello because Jefferson was a slave owner.

    “I find that some people are receptive to the message and some are resistant,” White said. “But our message is that we want the underserved communities and communities of color to become partners with us. Anecdotally, we have seen an uptick in African Americans visiting Monticello so I know we’re making progress.”



    Workers carefully remove the 1960s tile floor from Monticello's South Wing Sarah Addleman / Thomas Jefferson Foundation


    On a sunny weekday this spring, Monticello tour guide Tom Nash spoke to a group of white tourists and shared stories about slavery on the sprawling Jefferson plantation.
    “This is a spectacular view from this mountaintop,” Nash said. “But not for the enslaved people who worked these fields. This was a tough job and some of them — even young boys 10 to 16 years old —felt the whip.”

    Questions for Nash from tourists were wide-ranging:
    Why did some slaves want to pass for white when they were freed?
    Why did Jefferson own slaves and write that all men are created equal?
    How many slaves did Jefferson set free?

    “Working in the fields was not a happy time,” Nash said. “There were long days on the plantation. Enslaved people worked from sunup to sundown six days a week. There was no such thing as a good slave owner.”

    Jacqueline Pettiford and her family, descendants of Madison Hemings, at Monticello Thomas Jefferson Foundation at Monticello

    Meanwhile, Hallock said the physical evidence shows that Sally Hemings probably lived a higher-level lifestyle than other enslaved people on Jefferson’s plantation. Still, her room had no windows and would have been dark, damp and uncomfortable.

    “I think about the daily life of people in these quarters,” Hallock said. “Even though their lives were beyond their control, they were still a family and they shared this space. They would heat up a late meal and huddle by the fire to keep warm when the day was done.”


    On July 4, Monticello will host its 55th annual Independence Day Celebration and Naturalization Ceremony. Seventy people from more than 30 countries - from Afghanistan to Vietnam – will become U.S. citizens during the Monticello mountaintop event.


    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/t...-found-n771261
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    The loss of over 600,000 lives (about 1 in 50 of the then population) .
    Sort of stupid to attack a US fort, wasn't it? Sometimes I think they still haven't learned that lesson.

    "The event that triggered war came at Fort Sumter in Charleston Bay on April 12, 1861. Claiming this United States fort as their own, the Confederate army on that day opened fire on the federal garrison and forced it to lower the American flag in surrender. Lincoln called out the militia to suppress this "insurrection." Four more slave states seceded and joined the Confederacy. By the end of 1861 nearly a million armed men confronted each other along a line stretching 1200 miles from Virginia to Missouri"

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    An early victory for the union occurred within sight of our dock.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Port_Royal

    I learned about this from a book I purchased, ironically enough, from the gift shop at the Maine Maritime Museum, The Civil War at Sea.

    Back on subject most of the southerners I now really could care less for that flag. We see it being flown off the back of coal rolling pickups occasionally. It elicits rolling eyes and a shake of the head. When it was put to vote in GA whether the state should reinstate its place on the state banner 73% of Georgians voted no.
    I think it interesting that the location I've seen the most confederate battle flags in recent memory was Southern Ohio, South of Chillicothe (great ribs BTW) on a drive from Detroit to Atlanta.
    Last edited by Reynard38; 07-03-2017 at 06:07 PM.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    It is still on the Mississippi State flag, but a number of cities/towns do not fly it and none of the major universities in the state fly the state flag.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    An early victory for the union occurred within sight of our dock.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Port_Royal

    I learned about this from a book I purchased, ironically enough, from the gift shop at the Maine Maritime Museum, The Civil War at Sea.

    Back on subject most of the southerners I now really could care less for that flag. We see it being flown off the back of coal rolling pickups occasionally. It elicits rolling eyes and a shake of the head. When it was put to vote in GA whether the state should reinstate its place on the state banner 73% of Georgians voted no.
    I think it interesting that the location I've seen the most confederate battle flags in recent memory was Southern Ohio, South of Chillicothe (great ribs BTW) on a drive from Detroit to Atlanta.
    73% of native Georgians?
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    73% of native Georgians?
    I don't know how it works in Arkansas, but in GA all legal residents 18 and over can register to vote regardless of place of birth.
    So now you are suggesting that unless someone was born in the state they should not be allowed to have a say on a state ballot?
    I think something akin to this has been tried before....
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Maybe Phillip's concerned that they were bussed in from Vermont.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    I don't know how it works in Arkansas, but in GA all legal residents 18 and over can register to vote regardless of place of birth.
    So now you are suggesting that unless someone was born in the state they should not be allowed to have a say on a state ballot?
    I think something akin to this has been tried before....
    3/5ths of a vote.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Why would anyone in 2017 want to fly any flag of the Confederate States of America, founded for the express and declared purpose of defending slavery?
    Ask this guy..........


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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    I don't know how it works in Arkansas, but in GA all legal residents 18 and over can register to vote regardless of place of birth.
    So now you are suggesting that unless someone was born in the state they should not be allowed to have a say on a state ballot?
    I think something akin to this has been tried before....
    I was saying (as you should know) that the culture is changing with the influx of people foreign to the culture/heritage of the old south... nothing to do with slavery... that is the mantra of others
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by jack grebe View Post
    Ask this guy..........
    African-Americans have their share of idiots just like every other ethnic group, and just as high a percentage who are merely ignorant. I'd bet a fair amount that he's never read the Mississippi Declaration of Secession.

    Phillip, whether you like it or not, whether you admit it or not, the 'culture/heritage of the old south' was fundamentally based on the enslavement and oppression of Africans, and after the end of Reconstruction, on oppression as close to slavery as they could possibly get. It was fundamentally evil. The past has plenty of evils, but this was a big one, and we're still living with the consequences.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 07-04-2017 at 11:09 AM.
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    African-Americans have their share of idiots just like every other ethnic group, and just as high a percentage who are merely ignorant. I'd bet a fair amount that he's never read the Mississippi Declaration of Secession.

    Phillip, whether you like it or not, whether you admit it or not, the 'culture/heritage of the old south' was fundamentally based on the enslavement and oppression of Africans, and after the end of Reconstruction, on oppression as close to slavery as they could possibly get. It was fundamentally evil. The past has plenty of evils, but this was a big one, and we're still living with the consequences.
    you are wrong... unfortunately, there is no one who you will listen to and so you will remain unchanged in your attitude (which you learned in a different culture... similar to the mind set we find in the middle east)... unchangeable... no point in arguing

    the black man with the flag doesn't agree with you so you blow him off as an idiot... end of thought on the man's legitimate example
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    you are wrong... unfortunately, there is no one who you will listen to and so you will remain unchanged in your attitude (which you learned in a different culture... similar to the mind set we find in the middle east)... unchangeable... no point in arguing

    the black man with the flag doesn't agree with you so you blow him off as an idiot... end of thought on the man's legitimate example
    No, he isn't.


    The black man with the flag is DEFINITELY ignorant. Maybe masochistic.

    I think this would be a very different country if Sherman had been allowed to hang the worst of the Confederates, and the US had actually given a rip about its new citizens.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    No, he isn't.


    The black man with the flag is DEFINITELY ignorant. Maybe masochistic.

    I think this would be a very different country if Sherman had been allowed to hang the worst of the Confederates, and the US had actually given a rip about its new citizens.
    I think Lincoln did care about the "New Citizens" the problem was that after he was assassinated we were left with a certain vice-president...

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    No, he isn't.


    The black man with the flag is DEFINITELY ignorant. Maybe masochistic.

    I think this would be a very different country if Sherman had been allowed to hang the worst of the Confederates, and the US had actually given a rip about its new citizens.
    the hallelujah chorus...
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  32. #32
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    Oct 2003
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    you are wrong... unfortunately, there is no one who you will listen to and so you will remain unchanged in your attitude (which you learned in a different culture... similar to the mind set we find in the middle east)... unchangeable... no point in arguing

    the black man with the flag doesn't agree with you so you blow him off as an idiot... end of thought on the man's legitimate example
    Why don't you answer the question in post #12?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    John M. Coski is the author of The Confederate Battle Flag: America’s Most Embattled Emblem (Harvard University Press, 2005).

    It's not an American emblem.

    Slippery as owl spit.
    If Russia wins, there will be no Ukraine; if Ukraine wins, there will be a new Russia.

    -- Dmytro Kuleba, Foreign Minister of Ukraine

  34. #34
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    Feb 2001
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    13,568

    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post

    The black man with the flag is DEFINITELY ignorant.


    No, I would have to say you are.......

    He has let go of the hatred many white people try to instill into such symbols.

    He is free from it .
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    39,168

    Default Re: Embattled Banner: The true history of the Confederate flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Why don't you answer the question in post #12?
    I think he's pleading the Fifth.

    Quote Originally Posted by jack grebe View Post
    No, I would have to say you are.......

    He has let go of the hatred many white people try to instill into such symbols.

    He is free from it .
    He is a slave to it.

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