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Thread: Duck Punt

  1. #106
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by webishop14 View Post
    You forgot that after Lard, you have to go through Exit to get to Modesto.

    I kinda figured to let you orchestrate Spin's tour here. The Sierra Vista Loop sounds good to me.

    And MirrorDude -- I'm a bit behind the curve on translating CAD to CNC. Do you have the software for that? If not, what programs are currently available for the task? I'm currently running AutoCAD 2004. I know, it's archaic, but it's better that ACAD 14.
    Hehe. I spent my youth in Atwater, so Modesto was the BIG CITY, boy. Modesto. Ash. Ahhh...

    Oh, and I can never be left in charge of anything. I am flighty, distractable, and unsupervised. You have no idea how many VERY IMPORTANT pieces of paper there are floating around here, somewhere, with VERY IMPORTANT things written on them.

    I am about as good at long term planning as the average dog. Still, I remembered the Loop, and all the cool stuff there, and everyone can remain close to the comfort of a car, in case of extreme heat. Not so much in Yosemite. The Vista Loop has some famous landmarks, like Globe Rock.


    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. Three frames beveled and ready to glue. I needed water. It's hot. Now, back to the punt!

  2. #107
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    We use Solidworks for 3D design at my job and SolidCAM for CNC work. CNC software is typically very dependent on the specific machine that you're using, as it's essentially a programming language that references the tools, feeds, and speeds that a machine has. I think there are a few free CNC options out there. The big thing is that you need to get a "post-processor" that matches your machine.

    For amateur builders, the best bet is to join a Maker's group like the one near me: https://www.grmakers.com/

    Then you can use their programming software and machine.

  3. #108
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Amish Rob: "The Vista Loop has some famous landmarks, like Globe Rock"
    Maybe we could arrange to tip it over....

    As for modern CAD stuff, I've been cursed: I left three different jobs just as management had approved a switch to SolidWorks. I have some months worth of experience with it, but that's all. Most of my 3D work has been in AutoCAD, and, later, Inventor.
    "... the door was ajar, and the game was afoot." Lawrence Block

  4. #109
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrordude View Post
    We use Solidworks for 3D design at my job and SolidCAM for CNC work. CNC software is typically very dependent on the specific machine that you're using, as it's essentially a programming language that references the tools, feeds, and speeds that a machine has. I think there are a few free CNC options out there. The big thing is that you need to get a "post-processor" that matches your machine.

    For amateur builders, the best bet is to join a Maker's group like the one near me: https://www.grmakers.com/

    Then you can use their programming software and machine.
    Thanks for the input, mirrordude. I think that's something I'm going to have to get into.
    "... the door was ajar, and the game was afoot." Lawrence Block

  5. #110
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Me caveman. Me make mark with stick dip in black water. Hoot hoot.

    Peace,
    Robert

  6. #111
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    If any part of your dinghy looks like any part of this boat, take the belt sander to the whole thing.

    Thanks, but this is just goofy simple stuff, here. Flat bottomed and slab sided, for 92% of the side. Hehe. Simple, simple. If I recall, your dinghy has shape and form, strakes and curves.
    Those are two separate wax balls, entirely.

    Peace,
    Robert
    I really wasn't looking at that stuff, Rob. As an old friend of Bill W., I've learned to see the similarities in things. Here, I've seen a few. Enough to encourage me.

    Bill
    "... the door was ajar, and the game was afoot." Lawrence Block

  7. #112
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by webishop14 View Post
    I really wasn't looking at that stuff, Rob. As an old friend of Bill W., I've learned to see the similarities in things. Here, I've seen a few. Enough to encourage me.

    Bill
    Ahhh, that guy. Unsung American Genius/Hero, but only to the brave and strong.

    Peace,
    Robert

  8. #113
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    I came in to get a drink, and take a picture before the final fastening.
    Meaning the epoxy in the chine corners. The frames are all glued and screwed into place, and ready for action.

    Peace,
    Robert

  9. #114
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    Default Re: Duck Punt



    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  10. #115
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Nice! What's the purpose of the space in the frames at the chine? Is that intentionally a drain front to back, or just clearance to get a solid bead of epoxy in?

  11. #116
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrordude View Post
    Nice! What's the purpose of the space in the frames at the chine? Is that intentionally a drain front to back, or just clearance to get a solid bead of epoxy in?
    Primarily to allow water to drain, yes. Being able to work inside the little tunnels is nice, too, but mostly to allow the water to drain. I like big limbers.

    Peace,
    Robert

  12. #117
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Sorry to have to ask - but why so many frames?

  13. #118
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    Sorry to have to ask - but why so many frames?
    This is being built to two plan sets. Hehe. The Milgate style punt has all these frames, and the Flo-Mo style has them, too, but they are ply.
    The original boats would have been boards, so would have needed the frames. I believe in the modern, ply versions the frames are mainly vestigial, but in flat bottom, slab sided boats made from thin ply, heavy framing is necessary to prevent flex, twist and oil canning when the spans get too large, like this bottom.

    Plus, they make it look like a wooden boat, eh? Oh, they also provide a nice place to screw on the sole boards.

    The biggest reason for almost everything on this boat is to make is a "duck punt" as possible. I want it to be as indistinguishable from every other one as possible, construction wise.

    Peace,
    Robert

  14. #119
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Ha! thanks Rob, I looked at those plans - now I see.

    Now I have a similar thing (at least l like to think so). https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l4uFLFrT-y0&sns=em (that is me in the second half)- I call it a Super-Duckpunt to hopefully gain some cred should I be lucky enough to meet some duckpunters in my neck of the woods (Melbourne, Oz.) - but, being a bit adventurous, I cannot guarantee that I will always find myself in waters I could walk home out of - or at least swim to before the dreaded hypo-T got me.

    So I need to be able to self recover.

    Usually I would have a couple of (not too big and not too small) air tanks in the ends but, like with duckpunts, I did not want to spoil the effect.
    Finally I came up with the idea of as much flotation down low as possible - ie under seats and on the bottom - but not where I put my feet (didn't want to spoil stability). The idea was the swamped boat would behave much like a surfboard with vertical sides fixed on - then with a drain hole which I already had to let rainwater etc. out, the boat would self drain most of the water and I could get back in and sail away.....

    Being wood the DP should, even fully swamped, float with several inches of freeboard. However the traditional thick wood construction would support much more weight when swamped than thin plywood boats. The trad boats may have enabled their lighter crews (they were small in olden times.....) to get in and bail out.
    With frames and floorboards there is the opportunity to fix sheet foam in the bottom. This would satisfy modern requirements for self recovery.

    In the old days W P Stevens(?) wrote that "a strong lad should be able to rock or shove the water out" of a swamped canoe. I don't know if that would be feasible with the DP?

    what say?

    frank

  15. #120
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    Ha! thanks Rob, I looked at those plans - now I see.

    Now I have a similar thing (at least l like to think so). https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l4uFLFrT-y0&sns=em (that is me in the second half)- I call it a Super-Duckpunt to hopefully gain some cred should I be lucky enough to meet some duckpunters in my neck of the woods (Melbourne, Oz.) - but, being a bit adventurous, I cannot guarantee that I will always find myself in waters I could walk home out of - or at least swim to before the dreaded hypo-T got me.

    So I need to be able to self recover.

    Usually I would have a couple of (not too big and not too small) air tanks in the ends but, like with duckpunts, I did not want to spoil the effect.
    Finally I came up with the idea of as much flotation down low as possible - ie under seats and on the bottom - but not where I put my feet (didn't want to spoil stability). The idea was the swamped boat would behave much like a surfboard with vertical sides fixed on - then with a drain hole which I already had to let rainwater etc. out, the boat would self drain most of the water and I could get back in and sail away.....

    Being wood the DP should, even fully swamped, float with several inches of freeboard. However the traditional thick wood construction would support much more weight when swamped than thin plywood boats. The trad boats may have enabled their lighter crews (they were small in olden times.....) to get in and bail out.
    With frames and floorboards there is the opportunity to fix sheet foam in the bottom. This would satisfy modern requirements for self recovery.

    In the old days W P Stevens(?) wrote that "a strong lad should be able to rock or shove the water out" of a swamped canoe. I don't know if that would be feasible with the DP?

    what say?

    frank

    Well. Let's see. I'll start at the end.

    The trick, as my kids have found, is to roll the submerged boat up and out of the water. They can get a canoe or pirogue out of the water nearly empty by rolling it out. Seen it.

    The Flo-Mo plan, which is straight stitch and glue, provides for some built in flotation on the ends. It looks to be quite a bit. Still, these aren't blue water boats.

    The traditional boats were working boats, and I imagine, much like most working boats, that a fall out of the boat was often equated with death. Not many people swam back when, you know?

    Now, as to your boat. It looks to be a canoe with leeboards and rudder. Cool.

    The boat I am building is a copy of a specific type. I didn't decide to call this thing a duck punt, it is based on a traditional punt used for duck hunting. The boat has no built in foils, but uses the oar blades as both rudder and lateral plane. Many people here have touted the boats as extremely fun to own, so I thought to make one of these instead of another of our standard pirogues.

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. I'd rather have a hollow floor with a removable sealed plug than a foam filled compartment.

  16. #121
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    Forgot to mention I did this all the way around the inside bits. Yea!
    Now, I'm on to the outside to glue it up, and fair it for a glass bottom. Hehe. A layer of 6oz across the bottom and up to the "lap". Why not?

    Peace,
    Robert

  17. #122
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    It takes the thickened epoxy and forces it into the cracks, or it gets the hose again.
    All the outside cracks are filled, though not all as smoothly. Hehe. The plank gore was overfilled a bit, and I'll pare them down equal and smooth and fair with all of it.

    Look, I do mean overfilled a BIT. I barely put too much in, but I didn't want to hit them twice, so I went a little heavy. Same on the outer stems.

    Rounding comes next, followed by glass. It'll help with checking and provide abrasion resistance, in my head, if nothing else.

    Hehe.

    Peace,
    Robert

  18. #123
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    No new pictures, because I can't seem to get a good one, but the upper false strakes are glued on. Once they dry, the bottom can be sheathed, then it's furniture time!

    Peace,
    Robert

  19. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post

    Forgot to mention I did this all the way around the inside bits. Yea!
    Now, I'm on to the outside to glue it up, and fair it for a glass bottom. Hehe. A layer of 6oz across the bottom and up to the "lap". Why not?

    Peace,
    Robert

    On my 30'x12" open canoe I don't have any glass on the outside and it has been treated rough and bounced down weirs and over rapids. Once a year I touch up the paint on the bottom. Made from 4mm ply. I do have a layer of carbon on the inside in the passenger area where the plank is wide. There is also Kevlar tape on the outside along the keel line. Just my thoughts, my priority was low weight


    Not the best picture but it shows where the carbon went - not sure why it looks so rubbish. The chimes had tape on the inside

    I don't post to get a response, just to record my thoughts.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by tink; 09-10-2017 at 02:07 AM.

  20. #125
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    On my 30'x12" open canoe I don't have any glass on the outside and it has been treated rough and bounced down weirs and over rapids. Once a year I touch up the paint on the bottom. Made from 4mm ply. I do have a layer of carbon on the inside in the passenger area where the plank is wide. There is also Kevlar tape on the outside along the keel line. Just my thoughts, my priority was low weight


    Not the best picture but it shows where the carbon went - not sure why it looks so rubbish. The chimes had tape on the inside

    I don't post to get a response, just to record my thoughts.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Tink,

    I know. Our pirogue, our punt, and my erstwhile sailing canoe (now father-in-law's special fishing boat) are all unsheathed ply.
    This little buzzard will surely be abused, though, and we have a lot of granite around here. True, it will tear up glass pretty good, but fir ply can be wrecked pretty quick by granite. I little extra precaution, not for strength, per se, but a bit of abrasion resistance.
    Also, this thing will likely see some heavy time in the sun inverted on a car rack, or on some horses waiting to go. The glass will prevent the fir from checking.

    The mission here is not light weight, although I'd like to add as little as possible.

    Peace,
    Robert

  21. #126
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Tink,

    I know. Our pirogue, our punt, and my erstwhile sailing canoe (now father-in-law's special fishing boat) are all unsheathed ply.
    This little buzzard will surely be abused, though, and we have a lot of granite around here. True, it will tear up glass pretty good, but fir ply can be wrecked pretty quick by granite. I little extra precaution, not for strength, per se, but a bit of abrasion resistance.
    Also, this thing will likely see some heavy time in the sun inverted on a car rack, or on some horses waiting to go. The glass will prevent the fir from checking.

    The mission here is not light weight, although I'd like to add as little as possible.

    Peace,
    Robert
    I wasn't try to influence your design I was just presenting an alternative view, hope you didn't take any offence.

  22. #127
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    I wasn't try to influence your design I was just presenting an alternative view, hope you didn't take any offence.
    uh oh tink! now you've done it!... when Amish offers you a draught from the "Casque of Amontillado" in his wine cellar be sure and run the other way!!!

  23. #128
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    uh oh tink! now you've done it!... when Amish offers you a draught from the "Casque of Amontillado" in his wine cellar be sure and run the other way!!!
    Go away with this trash, Dude. Don't come here and stir pots. This is totally uncalled for.

    First, really? You're even going to pretend I've ever so much as written harsh words about or to someone here, even in the Bilge? Really?
    Second, why? Why would you attempt to stifle conversation? Why would you even insinuate a notion between two internet strangers coming to terms with one another?

    The most insulting part is you think I'm the type to brick a guy in...

    Peace,
    Robert

  24. #129
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    I wasn't try to influence your design I was just presenting an alternative view, hope you didn't take any offence.
    Not at all. The whole point of sharing is to get information out into the world for other people to use, and the more experienced opinions, the better the end result of the thread.

    Funnily enough, I decided I didn't want to mix that much epoxy, after all, so I just taped the chines and stems and gores.
    IMG_2285.jpg
    Hey, a picture straight to the forum! This is four layers of six ounce on the stem and under the "chin". As it were, and one layer on each chine.
    The stern stem only got two layers of glass. It probably won't be bashing into stuff.

    Furniture is next!

    Peace,
    Robert

  25. #130
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    IMG_2286.jpg
    Well. Primer helps.

    I want to work on the aft false strake ends a bit yet, so I didn't prime there, yet. Most of those will get removed in the final fairing, such as it will be, of the tapes and bumps and swirls. The white makes all the unevenness very apparent.

    If if I were going crazy, I'd spritz it or ponce it to check fair. Instead, I'll just get it mostly smoothish, then paint it a nice punt grey (gray?).

    I am pretty close. I need to rip and scarf rails, then make the breasthook and rear deck/knee. Then the tholes and rails, floorboards, and mast thwart are it.

    Really? Geez. It's really almost done?

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. I would like to,say the Flo-Mo panels were perfect. Perfect. I made frames from wood, but used his lines for the whole boat. It all came together seamlessly.
    Thank You, Flo-Mo, for making them available online.

  26. #131
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    About an hour after that picture was snapped a thunderstorm formed over the mountains and poured down the valley, dumping rain.

    Haha.

    Peace,
    Robert

  27. #132
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    About an hour after that picture was snapped a thunderstorm formed over the mountains and poured down the valley, dumping rain.

    Haha.

    Peace,
    Robert
    so got in your swimmers and did some wet and dry sanding - dedicated

  28. #133
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    so got in your swimmers and did some wet and dry sanding - dedicated
    Ha! I'm just about to go vacuum off most of the dust and dirt, and slap on coat two. It's only primer.

    By the by. For the record, I have learned that a surform plane will neatly remove the selvedge bump from glass tapes without eating up the glass or wood, provided a light touch.

    Now, off to prime!

    Peace,
    Robert

  29. #134
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    looking good!
    Skip

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  30. #135
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    IMG_2292.jpg
    Alright, now the important parts are primed (the epoxy bits), and part of the rest. The breasthook and quarterknees/deck are being glued up, and I hope to get them and the thole pin rails in tomorrow, and then get the outwales glued on. I think I'm just going to scarf and laminate them in place, all at once. Why not?

    The mast thwart is the last bit I need to make.

    Whee...

    Peace,
    Robert

  31. #136
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    IMG_2293.jpg
    After I took this, I put another clamp in the middle of the back thingy, but I just used screws for the front thingy. The front thingy will have a solid wood layer attached to the top, which will be grooved for the imaginary punt gun.

    The outwales are being ripped, and the oarlock blocks are being made.

    Maaaaybe I'll be able to get to the partner thwart today, but tomorrow for sure.

    Painting by Friday?

    I'm debating doing a plain grey paint job, or a grass camo job like my little kayak. I think light grey innards with unfinished cedar floorboards and a grass camp exterior would look sweet, and really allow some sneaking up on a lot of waterfowl here.

    Now, I just need to get one of those great, heaving, white lenses like a sports photographer, and nestle that in the barrel groove, then I can scull around and practice catch and release bird hunting.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    IMG_0296.jpg
    This is the camo I mean, by the by. I realize most people haven't seen me, or my wee kayak.
    Yes, the red ball is there on purpose. I'm silly, if you didn't know.

    Peace,
    Robert

  33. #138
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    IMG_2293.jpg
    After I took this, I put another clamp in the middle of the back thingy, but I just used screws for the front thingy. The front thingy will have a solid wood layer attached to the top, which will be grooved for the imaginary punt gun.

    The outwales are being ripped, and the oarlock blocks are being made.

    Maaaaybe I'll be able to get to the partner thwart today, but tomorrow for sure.

    Painting by Friday?

    I'm debating doing a plain grey paint job, or a grass camo job like my little kayak. I think light grey innards with unfinished cedar floorboards and a grass camp exterior would look sweet, and really allow some sneaking up on a lot of waterfowl here.

    Now, I just need to get one of those great, heaving, white lenses like a sports photographer, and nestle that in the barrel groove, then I can scull around and practice catch and release bird hunting.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Groove for the barrel?
    You sure?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  34. #139
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    IMG_2294.jpg
    Not sure, at all. In this case, I am a mindless follower of a West Mersea boatbuilder's notes.
    I really know nothing of these boats except what I've read here, then what I've learned from these plan sets from the web.
    I aim to make it as close to plan as possible, just because.

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. That's a blatant lie. My breasthook is longer by a few centimeters.

  35. #140
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    Default Re: Duck Punt

    IMG_2296.jpg
    Hey! The back part is in! I want to get the ends and thole pin rails in before putting on the outwales.
    Off to glue the solid wood bit onto the plywood breasthook and get out and install the thole pin block/rails whatever they are.

    Peace,
    Robert

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