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Thread: Ducker Resto

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    OKies
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  2. #72
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    I got one of the stems out of the boat took pictures apparently I can't upload with Tapatalk just now, so I have to get back with the pictures in a little while
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    OKies
    Whew! All the screws came out, a few we're actually falling out. Anyhow I did the sliding dovetail thing on the Curve rather than spread the planks apart came right out! Whoopie! Called the other sawmill going up there to get some white oak tomorrow hopefully. Still not sure what I'm going to do although repairing the stems is not that difficult I've done it with other boats.

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  4. #74
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    What have you all done on plank end restoration? what I've done is a thin strip of glass & epoxy. It looks like the thing to do here also, although the boat will be to be at least a quarter inch shorter at each end.


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    Last edited by DeniseO30; 08-23-2017 at 04:12 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Are those hood ends that bad? The lower ones look OK. Rather than shortening the planks, which will change the fit to the stem, I'd epoxy scarf on new ends to the top two strakes.
    The lower ones probably just need additional fastenings driven slightly further back from the plank ends to share the load.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  6. #76
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    It seems I'm going to restore or replace the stems before I do any of the planking repairs. The sheer re planks are pretty in bad condition. . Ugh, my 205 hardener. It's mahogany/black like Aaaarg! I have a new container of it, guess I'll have to use it.

    Nick the top of the stems 1"-2" of them is rotted off. splice and carve new ends "should" be less time consuming then making new stems.
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 08-23-2017 at 04:42 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    You have seen the tops of other ducker stems, right? Drawn on both the Greenbriar and the York plans. Do the old stems need any consolidation? Toothpicks and epoxy?
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
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  8. #78
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    It seems I'm going to restore or replace the stems before I do any of the planking repairs. The sheer re planks are pretty in bad condition. . Ugh, my 205 hardener. It's mahogany/black like Aaaarg! I have a new container of it, guess I'll have to use it.

    Nick the top of the stems 1"-2" of them is rotted off. splice and carve new ends "should" be less time consuming then making new stems.
    Definitely. Some glued in trunnels to reinforce the glued on failed bottom end as well.
    The top half of Peerie Maa's stem is scarfed on with a short scarf of similar proportions to that failure, fastened with two 1/4" copper bolts.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  9. #79
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    You have seen the tops of other ducker stems, right? Drawn on both the Greenbriar and the York plans. Do the old stems need any consolidation? Toothpicks and epoxy?
    I've not seen any up close and personal Ben,.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    I've not seen any up close and personal Ben,.

    I might punch a photo or two down your way probably via a PM if I can do it as I don't have any photo sharing accounts other that FB.

    Ben
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  11. #81
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    FB is good with me Ben!
    Black epoxy is not going to cut it on this job. I'll use the new can of hardener for the top of the stem, thank the Lord I have a band saw, jointer and all that stuff, even though I don't use them much they are really going to come in handy on this!

    I took the natural break and made a scarf joint for the new piece, it's kind of weird the way the grain runs because there were sawed rather then steam bent.

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    Last edited by DeniseO30; 08-23-2017 at 08:38 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post

    I took the natural break and made a scarf joint for the new piece, it's kind of weird the way the grain runs because there were sawed rather then steam bent.
    That is what you get when building down to a price, and expecting a limited life from a working boat to be used in relatively sheltered waters.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  13. #83
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    What is with the pencil line


    running from the bearding line to the back of the new piece?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  14. #84
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Lol just pencil lines from when I was sketching on the wood before before cutting a piece.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    ^ Good Oh!
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  16. #86
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Working on carving it over the next few days I have to go easy because I have carpal tunnel. Sawmill trip!!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    You knew I'd find out that Ben!

    I've a couple of ideas to stabilize the stems.. saw a slot in the leading edge,(would be tricky) a spline in. other.. dowels 1/4" drilled and inserted across the grain. I like the spine best.. near invisible and very strong.
    I'm going to go for the spline in the slot !!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    I have had to repair hood ends before. I cut and dremmeled out a horseshoe shape and then glued in tight fitting matched (oversize) pieces of the same wood (Jersey white cedar here).



    Then where the gains were broken up I planed back at an angle and glued tapered blocks on (slipping plastic behind to prevent gluing the planks together)



    When things are planed down all is good again.



    Due to the slight miss-match of grains at the glue lines I think the hood ends are now less prone to splitting again.

  19. #89
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    Absolutely great stuff Ned!
    I was rather disappointed at the sawmill it's a very large operation but I haven't been there many years, it seems they no longer sort red and white oak in separate stacks! To add to that even the yard people didn't know red from White anyway after some digging I'm pretty sure I came away with white I'm going to have to do the wick test to be sure.

    Working on the stem was easier than I thought although I am exhausted. Gotta love Japanese razor saws! Made curved kerfs & chisel pared the rebate.
    The bowl is sassafras made it about a month ago mahogany base it's about 11.5" x 3.5"

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Very nice! That stem should hold her together for many more decades.

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Thank you! Gotta get a spline it yet Ned. it will fall apart without it.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  22. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Thank you! Gotta get a spline it yet Ned. it will fall apart without it.
    Wooo... The grain changes Direction so it has to be flipped on the router table. I'm going to bend White Oak into the slot if I do it right it should look like an outer stem!

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Ahhh, .....Hadn't thought of that way. I would have rocked it though a tablesaw. Two roads to the same end.

  24. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedL View Post
    Ahhh, .....Hadn't thought of that way. I would have rocked it though a tablesaw. Two roads to the same end.
    Table saw was my first idea also Ned! Was scary!!

    $20 for 2 rift sawn 1X6 X 16' WO, took one to the TS, got out 4 -quarter sawn rail blanks! (Guess teaching all this "knowledge" to my son was retained in my aging brain. Lol)
    Even cleaned off the workbench! Maybe I should have designed in the tool tray but I'm one of those people that leaves everything on top of everything lol

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    Last edited by DeniseO30; 08-27-2017 at 08:30 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Bummed... all my hard work and the stem fell apart on the skinny end. Sigh.. taking a break!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    A variation of your spline idea-split the stem all the way through (front to back or inside to outside depending on your perspective) and put a layer of plywood between the halves. Keeps the original wood and strengthens it much more than a spline that only goes part way through.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Bummed... all my hard work and the stem fell apart on the skinny end. Sigh.. taking a break!
    As I said above. Peerie Maa has short scarfs in the stem very similar to your short grain. They are fastened with two 1/4" copper drifts. What I think that you should do is glue it back together, then glue in two hard wood dowels across each glue line as if you were fastening a scarf.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  28. #98
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    It's always good to walk away and come back refreshed which I will do probably tomorrow Monday I like all the ideas you have suggested, thank you! The part that broke was where I did not cut the spline slot where the gar boards meetthe srem. I should just make new stems, not like I don't know how and we know how much I love visiting Sawmills,they have about 2 billion board feet of a white oak lol.
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 08-27-2017 at 08:22 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    As I said above. Peerie Maa has short scarfs in the stem very similar to your short grain. They are fastened with two 1/4" copper drifts. What I think that you should do is glue it back together, then glue in two hard wood dowels across each glue line as if you were fastening a scarf.
    Always something to learn reading wbf threads. Scarfing new ends is something I have been thinking about on my Runabout project, but I was a bit afraid using epoxy. Is there a chance for rot in this scarfs, as the epoxy makes it harder for the wood to breathe?

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    Always something to learn reading wbf threads. Scarfing new ends is something I have been thinking about on my Runabout project, but I was a bit afraid using epoxy. Is there a chance for rot in this scarfs, as the epoxy makes it harder for the wood to breathe?
    I'd not worry about it. We do not worry about all of the glue in plywood.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  31. #101
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Fast as always Nick How long are the scarfed pieces on your Peerie Maa? Is there a minimum lenght you will recommend? (Dont want to Hijack the thread but guess its useful for Denise too)

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    Fast as always Nick How long are the scarfed pieces on your Peerie Maa? Is there a minimum lenght you will recommend? (Dont want to Hijack the thread but guess its useful for Denise too)
    Her stem is moulded about 5 inch, the scarf runs about 8 inch.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  33. #103
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Still thinking on how to proceed with the stems. I'm thinking laminate would be really cool which I know how to do, but would not necessarily be "proper" for an antique or very very old boat,. Cutting new straight grain white oak like the old stems would be like cutting rockers for a rocking chair I suppose. The other option steam bending 1.25" by 2 " white oak just for the fun of the saying I did it!

    The worries about rot and glue, should not be a big concern because these old boats aren't going to spend a whole lot of time in the water and very unlikely to be left in the water.

    Supposed to do some sailing on the Upper Chesapeake Bay, Maryland this week!!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  34. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Still thinking on how to proceed with the stems. I'm thinking laminate would be really cool which I know how to do, but would not necessarily be "proper" for an antique or very very old boat,. Cutting new straight grain white oak like the old stems would be like cutting rockers for a rocking chair I suppose. The other option steam bending 1.25" by 2 " white oak just for the fun of the saying I did it!

    The worries about rot and glue, should not be a big concern because these old boats aren't going to spend a whole lot of time in the water and very unlikely to be left in the water.

    Supposed to do some sailing on the Upper Chesapeake Bay, Maryland this week!!
    Just a quick test run on White cedar, first scarf cut in nearly 20 years!

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  35. #105
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    In the case of Incredible shrinking blanks, I have found a real problem; the garboards have shrunk so much they are not in the rabbet, it's actually vee groove, not a skirted type cut that you see on other boats. I'll get some photos of that area but I'm still timid about flipping the boat until I get the rails and Stems stabilized.

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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