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Thread: Ducker Resto

  1. #1
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    Default Ducker Resto

    "Good things come to those who wait"

    Well it seems the wait is over!





    I've not found any marking, numbers or names on the hull so far. I laced a nylon rope around here and she quickly realized her midships expansion has come to and end. Very slight tension of the line bought her right back to the 3'10" beam she had. the remaining deck and breast hook gaps closed perfectly to confirm the measurement!

    This link is the thread started by Gail who realized that the boat must be something worth saving. Thank you Gail!
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...44#post5275844




    This photo seems to be representative of what this old duck(er) may have looked like back when she was built.

    Lots more to come. Just getting started.

    First real inspection shows me square cut nails and roves!



    Stems; appear to be sawn; (more on that later)

    Planks.. Sheer planks need replacing. Although white cedar is easy to work. I may use something else for a bright finish sheer plank since the boat will be painted eventually.

    ALL the nails and roves have to be reset! There seems to be "something" between the plank laps. split planks ... eh.. I could spline and epoxy.


    Stay tuned! (it's going to be a long ride LOL)









    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-01-2017 at 11:13 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    I'm onboard for the ride
    - Chris

    https://fvpetrel.wordpress.com

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Thanks Chris! Looks like square roves and rivets are available! http://www.faeringdesigninc.com/fst-flat.html
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    I'm definitely looking forward to this Denise.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Had the Ducker covered, it rained, the wind blew the cover off, not a bad thing. The cracks in the planks, some where quarter inch wide, now much smaller lol.

    The planking is 5/16" thick rift sawn white cedar. at least 4 have nearly full length splits. (replace or spline TBD)

    Odd to me, is the flat cedar keel board on the bottom as she's not a solo carry boat a few more lbs in white oak don't seem wrong to me. (photos coming soon) This also qualifies this boat as a canoe to me!
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-01-2017 at 11:26 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    I offered the trade of my very first strip (Gilpatrick's puddle duck.) canoe, built about 18yrs ago. for the Ducker. Gail accepted! I wasn't using it. and truth be told, I'd rather do restoration work then build new. Was a win win to me.

    Like the heart shape breast hooks?


    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-01-2017 at 11:29 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    This will be fun to watch. Quite a project.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    What is the current thinking on cotton string and bedding in the plank laps?

    There is a a gap no mistake on that. it's filled with cracked dry "something"

    Taking more photos today!


    Oh! See the inrail we made when we built my 15ft W/C solo?


    I still have 2, 1"X3"X 18' sticks of it. "Alaskan or port oxford cedar" I was told but it's more like spruce. creamy yellowish, very clear, VERY stiff, somewhat dense, doesn't bend without coaxing or heat. harder then cedar. I may use it for the inrails on the Ducker.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Did a walk along, as y'all can see, I have some split planks. My feeling is spline them (3 or 4) But replace the sheer plank with WRC, cherry or other dark wood.
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-03-2017 at 09:21 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Took a few more shots of the stems.



    My thoughts here are, shave the stems to about a 3/4" new edge, lam or bend on new white oak about 4/4", This would also lead into a "river" or flat water keel in WO. I could also lam the inside of the stems.. give the old plank (with epoxy repaired ends) some new surface for the fasteners and bedding Sound like a plan?
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-03-2017 at 09:24 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto


    The deck that is there is 1/2" cedar for sure. Guess it didn't need to be hardwood. Notice the breast hook grain runs port to starboard.. strikes me as odd also. Also, notice the inrails were not on the ribs? the were chamfered to fit under he WO 7/8" square inrail.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    A beauty! I'd stick with cedar. Balance.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Looking great! Congrats! Use it with great pleasure.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Some comments:

    This is the normal bare bones pushing/ rowing ducker. Nicest one that I've seen is at CBMM, and you have photos of it. Not uncommon, well documented and without a great contextual story, one in poor shape would be better off in the hands of someone who would fix her up which is why ISM deaccessioned yours.
    The ribs were routinely beveled at the top fitting into corresponding notches in the inwale, so that you could have the inwale flush with the planks and outwhale.
    I think CBMM has plans for theirs. Your breast hook had a some kind of covering piece, maybe made up of two pieces.
    The CBMM boat has a rather nice forward thwart; looking at the remnants of yours there was something similar.
    You have evidence of an amidships thwart; interesting to see if that was original or added.

    Ben
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Hey Ben glad you checked in!

    Any idea who built her?

    Marine museums (and others) IMO toss out more history then they "save" Why? Money! It's all about da monay! ISM is notorious for it's high end money chasing. I was a shop volunteer nearly 20 years ago.

    Yes I've surmised this was a drab ducker, of no significant origin. If we look closer, we can determine the foward deck was o for duck blind use. Aft, was lower and at seating height. 2 sets of oar locks. Ben I don't see any evidence of a midships thwart other then a seat which could have helped stay off midships "spread"

    Phila seaport museum was going to toss her, Gail saved her and now she's in good hands (me) and not likely to have any of value to anyone but me because, I was or thinking of building one. I'm not a rose colored glasses type. I will fix and use this boat. if I "dressup" this old duck again it will be for my own use and "showoffness"
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-04-2017 at 12:02 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Denise,

    I only know about a couple of shops that were building duckers, but there is no way to tie them to specific boats. There were likely more, especially of the simple open ones.

    I think you are right about a center thwart: those little stringers in the center may have been a retro fit for a thwart. See if you can find any holes in the top of frames for turn buttons or other little cleats to position a floor 'flat'.

    What you are thinking as a forward deck is also where you stand when you are pushing the boat through the marsh when you have a gunner sitting on a forward gunning box or a thwart.

    If you want to go show, I know of a photo of a ducker with a checker board sheer strake. I would stay in cedar lane for weight, and easy of bending to shape.

    Biggest challenge in museums is cube: cubic feet costs. Display space costs more. And even in art museums, the visitors don't pay the freight.

    Ben
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Going to try and stabilize the hull with some temporary outrails and thwarts over the next couple of weeks.

    Going to make a small scarfing jig for my little trim router. Planking is 5/16" so there is some meat there for epoxy to glue in splines.

    Got the keel board off last night. The garboard is stable but has some cracks. Not a trace of ANY sealant anywhere. Original copper roves, some nails and bronze screws are good. the steel screws (what were they thinking???) that someone must of added to stop water ingress are all but rusty stubs.

    The plank shrinkage is pretty incredible. I don't think it would be wise to try and close the long cracks; Go for splines.


    Ben, would you know the location measurements for a mast partner and step? Just in case I want to build a sail rig for it.

    Taking owner's privilege with this one, I don't see me standing on deck with a shotgun but do see me casting flies from amidships!


    Can't believe I gave away the white cedar I had!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Denise,

    If you want to put a rig in, have a close look at how it was done in Starting out After Rail which is an open sailing ducker. We can get positions from the current corp of sailing duckers.

    I think you can get square cut copper nails and roves from Jamestown Supply.

    Not at all surprised that there is no goo in the seams.

    Ben
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Subscribing, nice project

    I used splines in the cracks of my Nordlandsboat. The hull was very dry when i got it, and I did not try to svell it before gluing in the splines with epoxy. The splines also made of very dry material. I think this was an advantage, because now the planking and the splines svells and dry equally. The boat lives on a trailer while not in use, but there is almost no leakage. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...way&highlight=

    Good luck, watching with interest!

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Scarfing 5/16" white cedar? . I'm thinking more then 7 to 1. more like 10? 10 X 5/16 = tad over 3" "faint" lol


    Thank you gentlemen for encouragement!

    Pennsylvania steam .. 1" X 7/8" rails. ladder and cement block you can't see. Let the HHH of summer do the work.
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-06-2017 at 06:42 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Pennsylvania steam .. 1" X 7/8" rails. ladder and cement block you can't see. Let the HHH of summer do the work.
    Brilliant! I bent cedar in a similar manner in FL. HHH and time works!
    Please don't dominate the rap Jack, if you've got nothing new to say.

    Robert Hunter

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Scarfing 5/16" white cedar? . I'm thinking more then 7 to 1. more like 10? 10 X 5/16 = tad over 3" "faint" lol


    Thank you gentlemen for encouragement!

    Pennsylvania steam .. 1" X 7/8" rails. ladder and cement block you can't see. Let the HHH of summer do the work.

    obviously a case of Great Minds thinking alike.


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    When you have the time.. you can take the time to kindly bend stock but it's sure fun using a steam box too! GMTA Not feeling so great of late but I can relate! lol
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    No update yet. had some work come in and it's still been HHH outdoors. Been thinking of a multi purpose cradle. It would support the duck for display and storage and be carried in the truck if the duck is on the racks. or clamped/bolted to a trailer at some point in time.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    I think I'm going to deck out this boat. per the way the sailing duckers are .

    Looking for copy on the sail rig rudder and boards if anyone has it. will pay!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Get a set of the Greenbriar ducker plans from Independence Seaport Museum, they will have all the detail you need.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    I may do that Ben! But someone had offered them to me but I lost the messages.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    There are some floating around on the interweb. Wade Smith has some, don't remember his WBF handle. If I was going to do a sailer out of yours I'd do it like the Eakins boat. Mast step/ dagger board case forward. Leave the original push platform, which I think is rather nice. Eschew the decks.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Took a drive today, all the way to egg harbor nj. Got me some white cedar!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Got my epoxy... Gotta clean the pumps
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    There are some floating around on the interweb. Wade Smith has some, don't remember his WBF handle. If I was going to do a sailer out of yours I'd do it like the Eakins boat. Mast step/ dagger board case forward. Leave the original push platform, which I think is rather nice. Eschew the decks.
    Ben Short of going in person, I can't seem to find any photos of the inside set up of an green briar eakins type boat
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-21-2017 at 11:44 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    BORING!!


    Found a PDF
    http://udspace.udel.edu/bitstream/ha...F6B?sequence=1

    there is a photo of a loaded Ducker but not enough detail to help. around pages 29 to 35

    The desire to build small, lightweight, durable craft produced other Delaware hunting boats many
    of which incorporated one or more elements of sneak box design. The Delaware ducker, mentioned
    above, was a cross between gunning skiff and sneak box.. Longer (up to sixteen feet) with an open
    interior and room for two passengers, the Delaware ducker and its cousin the Jersey melonseed
    possessed the same flattened round hull profile of the sneak box and used very similar rib and plank
    construction. Like both the gunning skiff and the sneak box, the Delaware ducker could be poled or
    paddled in extremely narrow and shallow tidal ditches where the hunter could conceal himself with marsh
    grass and wait for the propitious moment to sit up and shoot passing ducks and geese..
    44 Dr William Bruette, American Duck, Goose, and Brant Shooting (New York: G Howard Watt, 1929) The following observations come from Bruette's chapter, "The Barnegat Bay Boat," p 70-77

    found this too. just photo on a maritime site in Delaware.
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-21-2017 at 02:38 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Denise,
    Eakins painting Starting out after Rail http://www.mfa.org/collections/objec...ter-rail-32538 shows exactly how the interior is laid out.
    Last edited by Ben Fuller; 07-23-2017 at 10:28 AM. Reason: more info
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Ducker Resto

    Yes to a artist's perception. but It's not quite helping me on the actual. The C/B trunk was not open at the top in the painting, I did pull some measurements off the F&S reprint. Guess I'll contact the museum. $ is so tight for me I've become a begger LOL BEN? what who where is was Greenbriar? the builder?
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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