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Thread: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

  1. #176
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    NICE! Never tried out any of the wooden planes, although I have a couple of old ones the need refurbishing. They're kinda "down there" on the list, though.

  2. #177
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Oh you'll enjoy using that and you'll be using it a lot!

  3. #178
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    NICE! Never tried out any of the wooden planes, although I have a couple of old ones the need refurbishing. They're kinda "down there" on the list, though.
    Though I forget the author of the article, he sounded like a very experienced if not professional woodworker. He originally tried wooden planes out just to be knowledgeable and informed as to their use. He found himself using them more and more, and began to question why he actually preferred them. He said that there were several reasons. They were on the whole lighter, had naturally less friction or drag, transferred the feel of the planing wood to his hand and therefore gave him a better "touch" or feel for how the actual planing process was working, and in his mind, once the learning curve was over, were easier to adjust. (He was using the more traditional planes, where tapping the iron with a hammer was all that was needed to adjust the iron, something with which I have absolutely no experience.) Mine is obviously kind of a hybrid, with the advantages, at least I hope, of both old and new. Wood for the weight and glide factors, and a more modern adjustment mechanism to relieve the impatient man in me. So far I like what I see, though obviously the proof is still to be seen. Like Steve said, I will have plenty of opportunity to put it to the test!

    Ken

  4. #179
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Initial impressions...love that block plane!! Also loving the fact that I am 95 percent epoxy ready with the garboard planks. I am pretty happy with how the planks land. So barring anything unforeseen, the next step should be pilot holes for the stem and transom, then the big plunge with something permanent!
    48164273847_c529752bec_m.jpg48164195081_f102b7857c_m.jpg

    Is the consensus at that point to use temporary screws into the keelson? The first garboard would be easy with clamps on both sides, but once that first garboard plank is on, the other side wouldn't lend itself to clamping. What say you?

    Ken

  5. #180
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Ken, you know my thoughts on that. Clamp along the keelson and screw at each end. In the pic you can see where I started the screws at the bow end.
    Trust the force Luke, the holding force of the epoxy that is. The garboard ends up sandwiched between the keelson and keel. It's not going anywhere.
    DSCF1195.jpg
    I wish I could work out how to rotate pics in this forum

  6. #181
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Did you do both garboards at once? I have no worries about it going anywhere, just want a good tight fit between the garboards and keelson. The first one I can clamp to the forms and the keelson. The second one I can clamp to the forms, but the keelson side won't be accessible to clamps. Is that where your clothes-pin-clamps-on-steroids come into play? The reason I ask about temporary screws is that in Geoff Kerr's videos on the Caledonia Yawl, that is his approach. Overkill? Don't really want to take the time for that either. But your clamps must have taken a bit of time and materials as well??

    Appreciate the feedback!
    Ken
    P.S. Don't sweat the pics...I'm old-school and my laptop doesn't rotate when I turn it sideways to look!

  7. #182
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    I did them one at a time, the second was more difficult but the corner of the clamp kind of bit into the inside face of the keelson with a little encouragement and the odd four letter word.

    So as you look down on the keelson when the boat is righted, that top face met the inner corner of the clamp and the wedge tightens it up on the outside of the garboard. You can use temporary screws if you need to but it can be hard to get them back out after the epoxy goes off.

  8. #183
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    To back out a temporary screw after the epoxy has cured, stick a soldering iron into the head for a few seconds. It will back right out.

  9. #184
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Hi folks, I have just returned to this great forum and am bored after several days in bed with a rat of a cold - so I am well into typing mode till I can get back out to my Oughtred Gannet. Just reading your interesting posts and have a couple of comments :-
    a) I make my moulds of pine from Bunnings so they are 'hollow', therefore I can easily attach clamps to them and pull planks down
    b) I put a rim (can't remember the correct term) around the inside of the transom when I make the transom, this gives be something to use clamps on at the transom + something I can put screws in there
    c) Remember that planks can be both pushed and pulled into position, especially at the stem. Pushing using a long piece of timber works really well - my pergola has a number of scars from being used to supports these long pieces of timber. Last summer I had a diamond-back python watching me do this - he thought it most peculiar!
    d) Also read the earlier posts about planing - I must admit I use the electric plane to remove about 80% of the timber then hand plane the last 20%. I thought I knew how to sharpen a plane till a local boatbuild expert told me that the blade is sharp when you feel you could cut your finger prints off with it!! After that I went out & bought very fine wet stones and Veritas honing guide - what a difference!! BTW a swipe with an old candle across the sole of the plane makes an extraordinary difference - feels as if you are planing on glass.
    Keeps up with the postings please, this is how we all learn :-)
    Last edited by neil.henderson; 07-03-2019 at 06:27 AM.

  10. #185
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    First of all, dry fit my first garboard plank in preparation for gluing up. Pretty happy with the fit...So took the plunge and glued it up. I may have said this before, but to me it seems like this is the hardest plank to hang, (not that I have ever hung a second!)in that it is the foundation for the rest, and that I have zero experience, either with epoxy or with boat building. But, here goes!

    48215710746_c7d0dd20bf_m.jpg 48215710711_f89102bd3a_m.jpg 48215711036_5a1dfa3bd6_m.jpg

    So, as they say, for better or worse!!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #186
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Congrats Ken, that's a milestone reached.
    Yes the rest get easier and by the look of all those nice clamps you'll get it sorted without too much drama.

    Just remember to clean off as much excess epoxy as you can before it hardens, if you're lucky you can form some of the excess into nice fillets once it's all clamped

  12. #187
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve TN 15 View Post
    Congrats Ken, that's a milestone reached.
    Yes the rest get easier and by the look of all those nice clamps you'll get it sorted without too much drama.

    Just remember to clean off as much excess epoxy as you can before it hardens, if you're lucky you can form some of the excess into nice fillets once it's all clamped
    Thanks Steve, I did try to clean up as much as possible. It's a little nerve-racking not knowing how long it will take for the epoxy to kick off, and wanting to be sure you have it all clamped so that you have squeeze-out all along the joint. But in the end it really went fairly smoothly. There was a couple of places that I wasn't able to clean up as well as I would have liked, simply because I put a couple of the braces between the forms too high and in the way. No big deal, but made a little work later to clean up the inside. But excited with the progress!

    Ken

  13. #188
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Good on you Ken and if it's anything like the Bote Cote epoxy I used you'll be able to trim excess with a sharp chisel before it gets really hard or use a hot air gun later to soften it then remove with sharp chisel or scraper, just don't heat for too long as it can degrade the joint, it only takes a few seconds to soften the excess to a workable state.

    I found with the inside there was lots of squeeze out that I couldn't get to until I righted the boat but a heat gun and sharp gouge chisel left me with a nice fillet in most places.

    Full steam ahead now!

  14. #189
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Hi Ken/Steve,
    It seems to be the garboard week - here is a photo of mine that I glued on yesterday :-) I used 8mm ply on my last boat, this time its 6mm brunyzeel ply and it really bends very easily - even at the bow where I have pre-planed the gain for the 1st plank!!
    IMG_1225.jpg

  15. #190
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by neil.henderson View Post
    Hi Ken/Steve,
    It seems to be the garboard week - here is a photo of mine that I glued on yesterday :-) I used 8mm ply on my last boat, this time its 6mm brunyzeel ply and it really bends very easily - even at the bow where I have pre-planed the gain for the 1st plank!!
    IMG_1225.jpg
    Good for you Neil, doesn't it feel great? Amazing how that plank shows the final shape and makes you salivate for more planks, huh? I too was impressed with the quality of the ply, and how it bent so easily to match up with the stem. Really wanted to get both garboards done this weekend, but just not enough time this afternoon. Next weekend! Going to try to have the kids of some friends over again to get them involved. They seemed to really enjoy it last time, and I think it's such a great experience for them.

    I'll be following your build!
    Ken

  16. #191
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Neil have you got a build thread going for yours?
    I can't find anything

  17. #192
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Steve, No I do not have a thread. Should I?
    Rgds Neil

  18. #193
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Ken,
    Just to make you jealous I glued the 2nd garboard on this afternoon. It seems much truer shape, hopefully not to different to the port side which is already on! Now I have to make a template for the next plank........................

    Neil

  19. #194
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Neil you may as well, that helps us all learn.

  20. #195
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by neil.henderson View Post
    Ken,
    Just to make you jealous I glued the 2nd garboard on this afternoon. It seems much truer shape, hopefully not to different to the port side which is already on! Now I have to make a template for the next plank........................

    Neil
    OK, it worked and I'm jealous! But just so you know...I'm building from a kit and don't have to make a template...

    I agree with Steve. It's great to watch each other's progress, learn from our mistakes, and even see ways of doing things that we hadn't thought of.

    Ken

  21. #196
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Hi Ken,
    I made my own cleats for my previous build - just because I wanted to see if I could make nice wooden cleats! They have actually worked out really well and are standing up well to various forms of abuse.................. A few notes on what I did:
    a) I used Spotted Gum which is an Australian eucalyptus hardwood, and I used plans from the Wooden Boat magazine
    b) I covered the cleats with Tung Oil rather than varnish - so that I can refresh their appearance easily without sanding
    c) I put the cleats (4) under the carlin apart from 2 cleats which are attached on top of the aft deck - these 2 cleats are used to hold the boat down on the trailer and for attaching mooring lines. Having the cleats under the carlin can be unusual for new people to the boat but I really wanted to keep the decks and coaming clear & I new that the carlin is very strong.

    I'm sure there are heaps of other approaches. Neil

  22. #197
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Thanks Neil. Do you know the issue of Wooden Boat they're in? I have some black walnut that is begging to be used for something. My thought has been cleats, or blocks, or oarlock pads(not sure the proper name)or even all of the above. What causes me to be a little undecided is that I will have spacers between inner and outer gunnels, and Steve as well as others have used those spaces for mooring lines. I will need one(two?) on the spar for the halyard. Might also have one on the bow for mooring or directing the boat to the trailer. Too much that I know that I don't know at this point, but like you thought making cleats would be fun. I also like your idea of Tung oil, easy to keep it fresh.

    Ken

  23. #198
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Dry fitting the second garboard, I had a "I could have had a V-8" kind of moment. (some of you are old enough to remember that.) The weights that I used when scarfing the planks weigh 38 pounds. No idea how they came up with that random weight, but there it is. I was a little surprised at how much they weighed, but my back was not.
    Neil, in a post above, said that "planks can be pushed and pulled", and suddenly I remembered my sore back...er...the weights I had used for scarfing. Setting them on the second garboard, everything pulled right into place. I was careful to put them right on the forms, in order to prevent the "hungry dog" look for the planks. Can't see why this won't work for the final glue up. From there on I will use the "clamps" that come with the kit, and should be able to do both sides at once.
    48261908441_e75edc497b_k.jpg
    Last edited by KenStocker; 07-11-2019 at 10:11 PM.

  24. #199
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Mate, that's a great use of resources and it looks to be working perfectly. No stopping you now, she'll be fully planked in a week!

  25. #200
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by KenStocker View Post
    Thanks Neil. Do you know the issue of Wooden Boat they're in?
    Ken
    It might be this:

    Apprentice's Workbench: "Making Wooden Cleats"/Harry Bryan, 192:27

    Bryan, Harry, author and illustrator: "Making Wooden Cleats," 192:27

    From a quick search of the WB Mag Online Index.

    And, from a real duffer, with one Bolger Instant Boat build way in the background, yes, making your own cleats from wood can be a very simple and rewarding task.

  26. #201
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Noto View Post
    It might be this:

    Apprentice's Workbench: "Making Wooden Cleats"/Harry Bryan, 192:27

    Bryan, Harry, author and illustrator: "Making Wooden Cleats," 192:27

    From a quick search of the WB Mag Online Index.

    And, from a real duffer, with one Bolger Instant Boat build way in the background, yes, making your own cleats from wood can be a very simple and rewarding task.
    Thanks Chris, I'll check them out.

    Ken

  27. #202
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Got a chance today to glue up the second garboard plank. Pretty excited to be to this point. Next is the skeg, and fitting out the pieces of the keel. Then on to the remaining planks.
    48285843041_10bf873674_z.jpg

    48285841736_17c429a78e_z.jpg

  28. #203
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Hi Ken,
    Not sure what your weights are made of but please be aware that concrete is porous and epoxy will move from a surface into a porous one! I used concrete pavers to hold down some timbers on my previous build only to discover next morning that the paver was glued to the boat!! A bit of persuasion with a hammer and chisel solved the issue - next time I will wrap the paver in plastic wrapping tap which is what I use when I do not want the epoxy to adhere. I have cut my 1st plank after garboard & hope to glue it on today or tomorrow - I love planing the bevels now :-)
    Cheers Neil

  29. #204
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by neil.henderson View Post
    Hi Ken,
    Not sure what your weights are made of but please be aware that concrete is porous and epoxy will move from a surface into a porous one! I used concrete pavers to hold down some timbers on my previous build only to discover next morning that the paver was glued to the boat!! A bit of persuasion with a hammer and chisel solved the issue - next time I will wrap the paver in plastic wrapping tap which is what I use when I do not want the epoxy to adhere. I have cut my 1st plank after garboard & hope to glue it on today or tomorrow - I love planing the bevels now :-)
    Cheers Neil
    They are metal, and even so I was concerned they would adhere. Thus the plastic under them. This will obviously be the only time I use them, from here on out it will be the "clothespin clamps". Are you going to stop and attach the skeg before going too much farther? I fear the prospect of being a human pretzel, my back agrees, and so I will do that next. With a solid topped strong-back, waiting till later could be a problem. Good progress for you!

    Ken

  30. #205
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Pulled the clamps today, and am not extremely happy with the shape at the stem. Looks to me like I didn't bevel enough off of the stem on the second garboard. How you can dry-fit that plank 17 times or so, and not see that is a little frustrating. Hopefully not a huge deal, but kinda disappointing.
    Attachment 41451
    Attached Images Attached Images

  31. #206
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Hi Ken,
    The Gannet design has no skeg (they call them deadwoods in Australia but as a Scot I know what you mean), but it does have a keel which goes on after planking, haven't decided when to attach the keel yet, but may be soon as the access is easier in the early stages...............
    Neil

  32. #207
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Ken,
    That stem looks fine to be, one of the advantages of building a boat upside down is that your early work is under water!!! (remember that) - your work will improve with practice and progress so that by the time you get to the sheer plank it is all perfect & gorgeous!! One question though - have you bevelled the sides of the inner stem so that the plank has a face to lie on? I did a 1st approximation bevel of the stem right from garboard to sheer using a 45 degree router bit, I know this will require fine tuning as I progress but it give me a good start point and if it is wrong at least it is consistently wrong.......... When you are dry fitting planks look at them from as many angles as you can including head-on and stern-on will it looks right. When you use screws to pull down planks put those screws through a scrap (2"x2" approx) wrapped in plastic tape before screwing the down the plank - this spreads the load of the pulldown & usually avoids divots.
    Its all learning Ken - my 3rd boat is much tidier than my 2nd.

    Neil

  33. #208
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    I did bevel the inner stem, albeit with the block plane while on the strongback. I like your idea of a router bit for a starting point, though probably too late now. But I will obviously be much more careful from this point on. My main concern is that it will compound if I'm not careful. I can't very well just plane deeper and jerk the next plank into line. Live and learn!

    Ken

  34. #209
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    Default Re: Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

    Hey Ken, as the cover of the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy says "DON'T PANIC"

    Mine did the same thing and I freaked a bit but measuring confirmed that once planed down to accept the stem the width was OK. I did have to reshape the stem a little to make it fit but that's neither here nor there.

    As for fairing the stem for each plank, they will all be at different angles. I marked the finish width of the stem (total width less plank thickness) on the forward face either side of centre. This gave me the line to finish fairing too.

    When dry fitting the plank I used my fine pull saw against the upper (lower during construction) edge of the plank and cut into the stem at the angle of the plank and as deep as the line I drew then removed excess stem with a chisel. Of course you also need to cut a rebate into the previous plank so the new one ends up flush at the stem rather than stepped like my transom. Again while dry fitted I measured back from the stem 10 inches then used a stanley knife with increasing pressure as I moved forward to cut the edge into the previous plank. I then used rabbet plane and chisel to fair that face into the stem.

    DSCF1212.jpg

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