Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay

[David G]

What would you use western red for? I have a bunch available for free,(air dried at that!) but had thought it was too soft, and wouldn't hold screws enough to be of much use.

Lots of marine uses. Planking for traditionally built clinker boats, for instance. Most of the solid stock in the hull of a Goat Island Skiff is spec'd as WRC... for adding lightness.

[runswithsizzers]

Wipe on/wipe off varnish is, essentially, varnish with oils and solvents added so it is applicable with a rag. Have you ever seen 'Daly's Pro-Fin'? It's an interior version of the product. Daly's also makes a product that's at the low end of the solids spectrum (more oil & solvents, less varnish) called 'Seafin Teak Oil'. It's a great product, just too slow to build a film, if a film is what you're after. A marine version of wipe-on varnish could be constructed with the Seafin product - to which you added spar varnish to suit. Daly's own "SuperSpar"... or any of the standard tung oil & phenolic formulations: Interlux #96; Epifanes; McCloskey's Man'O War; Z-Spar Flagship; etc. Or... you can simply use the Seafin Teak Oil. If used regularly, it'll hold up just fine.

Skip the Watco - it has no UV additives. Urethane resins are very tough, but not as resilient for application where wood might move as phenolic resin formulations.

I see you have included "McCloskey Man o' War" as a type of "tung oil & phenolic formulation" of varnish. Can you provide any documentation for that?

I have been researching marine spar varnishes for a pair of sassafras oars and also gunwales, transom, and deck on Steve Redmond's Whisp. Here in the middle of USA one of the few non-urethane marine varnishes which I can buy locally is McCloskey Man o' War 7509 Gloss. Valspar's website links to a product sheet for 7509 (includes 7505 and 7507) - and tung oil is NOT listed as an ingredient. It says "Modified Alkyd Resins" 51% solids by weight, but nothing about what type of oil might be in it.

McCloskey also makes two other series of Man o War varnish - the 6505/6507/6509, which are the "voc" versions. Product sheet shows "Modified Alkyd Resins" 63% solids by weight. And the 6535/6537/6539 series which do have "Phenolic Mod. Resin" and 51% solids by weight; oil not specified. By the way, the McCloskey cans are identical except for the product number on the front.

For those who have never worked with sassafras, it's harder than spruce, but quite a bit softer than ash. I expect the relatively soft sassafras oars and outwwales to get banged around some, so I want a flexible varnish. So I'm trying to decide if it's worth to trouble to order McCloskey 6539, Interlux 96, Epifanes, Z-Spar Flagship, etc. - or is the McCloskey 7509 close enough, even if it turns out not to be tung / phenolic based ?

I should add that the Whisp skiff is a car topper, and both the skiff and the oars will be stored under cover when not in use, so UV protection is not a big concern.

[David G]

I see you have included "McCloskey Man o' War" as a type of "tung oil & phenolic formulation" of varnish. Can you provide any documentation for that?

I have been researching marine spar varnishes for a pair of sassafras oars and also gunwales, transom, and deck on Steve Redmond's Whisp. Here in the middle of USA one of the few non-urethane marine varnishes which I can buy locally is McCloskey Man o' War 7509 Gloss. Valspar's website links to a product sheet for 7509 (includes 7505 and 7507) - and tung oil is NOT listed as an ingredient. It says "Modified Alkyd Resins" 51% solids by weight, but nothing about what type of oil might be in it.

McCloskey also makes two other series of Man o War varnish - the 6505/6507/6509, which are the "voc" versions. Product sheet shows "Modified Alkyd Resins" 63% solids by weight. And the 6535/6537/6539 series which do have "Phenolic Mod. Resin" and 51% solids by weight; oil not specified. By the way, the McCloskey cans are identical except for the product number on the front.

For those who have never worked with sassafras, it's harder than spruce, but quite a bit softer than ash. I expect the relatively soft sassafras oars and outwwales to get banged around some, so I want a flexible varnish. So I'm trying to decide if it's worth to trouble to order McCloskey 6539, Interlux 96, Epifanes, Z-Spar Flagship, etc. - or is the McCloskey 7509 close enough, even if it turns out not to be tung / phenolic based ?

I should add that the Whisp skiff is a car topper, and both the skiff and the oars will be stored under cover when not in use, so UV protection is not a big concern.

Don't get it secondhand from some dude on the internet (me). Call them directly, ask for tech services, and get your questions answered straight from the source.

[runswithsizzers]

Don't get it secondhand from some dude on the internet (me). Call them directly, ask for tech services, and get your questions answered straight from the source.

Good point! I was hoping maybe you had seen some official mfg information that I haven't.

I used Man o War Spar varnish on a yellow pine trestle table I made 40 years ago and I am amazed at how well the varnish has held up. But that table has been kept indoors, and who knows, maybe the formula has changed since then ?

I'll call the mfg tomorrow and see what they have to say.

[KenStocker]

Speaking of the Tammie Norrie coming to Coos Bay, , it is actually now a reality! On Monday I ordered the kit from Hewes & Company. In 3 to 4 weeks, my dream of building my own boat will commence! I plan on savoring every moment. Ironically, I have done a lot of woodworking, but mostly with oak, or if it was to be painted, with hemlock, alder, or whatever was most inexpensive. So part of my anticipation is to work with woods that I have never used, such as mahogany, Port Orford Cedar, etc. (Maybe Walnut for some cleats and blocks?) Also to use more traditional tools, such as planes and chisels, instead of power tools. Should be fun, and I'm also looking forward to sharing the journey as I go.

[Rich Jones]

Looking forward to seeing the boat go together!

[KenStocker]

Thanks for the encouragement Rich, me too!

[David G]

Yeah... me too.

Is it done yet? Yanno... the Depoe Bay Wooden Boat Show is in April. You could show her off there. Next great opportunity would be Toledo in August.

[KenStocker]

April David? What makes you think it would take so long? Although it's somewhat like telling my wife I'd have her table finished by Christmas...I just didn't specify which year! You'll just have to make sure those boat shows keep happening for the foreseeable future. BTW, what weekend in April? (Seriously speaking just for fun!)

[KenStocker]

38845524830_97f391696a_z.jpg38845532310_ffe8346d78_z.jpg
And so it begins...the kit has arrived. All that remains is to do a little practice epoxy work.

[KenStocker]

38871431770_33537972ef_z.jpg25810856927_4999d33cea_m.jpg
Starting by making a boat hook. Having never worked with epoxy, I thought this would be a way to practice before doing something more critical, like maybe scarfing planks! It would seem to me that having a boat hook fall apart might be preferable to having the transom fall off, but maybe that's just me...

(sorry for the huge pics, still learning to post.)

[Fredostli]

I love the design of Tammie Norrie. Jumping between a lot of design I want to build, I keep landing on Tammie norrie, but if I build it, it will be solid wood and copper. Ken could you do me a favour? If i would use the patterns for the planking, What do you think will be the widest board I need? Do you scarf two boards together to get full lengt in your kit?

Follow with interest


Fred

[KenStocker]

I love the design of Tammie Norrie. Jumping between a lot of design I want to build, I keep landing on Tammie norrie, but if I build it, it will be solid wood and copper. Ken could you do me a favour? If i would use the patterns for the planking, What do you think will be the widest board I need? Do you scarf two boards together to get full lengt in your kit?

Follow with interest


Fred

The planks with the kit are pre-scarfed for length. There are also pre-drilled holes through which to put nails. String around those nails allows you to align the planks correctly. So...till I do that I can't tell you exactly how wide with the curvature of the plank. But the widest plank is 8", and so I would imagine 12" would suffice. I would imagine you could contact the designer (Oughtred) to get a more accurate measurement.
Hope you get to build her, just love her lines!
Ken

[keen2build]

Hi

Hi Fredostli you wont be sorry with your choice of vessel, this was my first attempt, but is still the prettiest shape I
have ever seen.

Keen2build
TrevTrevorNoysAlbertHenry2a_small.jpgTrevorNoysAlbertHenrya_small.jpg)

[WX]

When I first saw this thread I thought it was about a Junk Rigged yacht named Tammie Norie

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq7...NoV7WUrLW7ud4w

[KenStocker]

40551195494_0c868d1ce7_o.jpgNot a great pic, but found this 14' piece of Port Orford cedar, straight grained and with only one little knot that will trim off for final keelson width. Feeling pretty lucky!

[KenStocker]

start of oars.jpgMock-up of oar shafts. You can see the piece on the right has a knot that will not but workable. Hard to find 9' plus straight grained pieces. Just keep checking back in to find new stock, as I'm not in a hurry with these. Fun to get a picture of how it will look though. Another four pieces on each side for the blades will complete the look I'm after.

[KenStocker]

First plank scarf.jpgWith much trepidation, and not a little nerves, scarfed together my first two planks. Hopefully I aligned the planks correctly, though the process does seem pretty straight-forward. Onward and upward!

[garyb]

Ken, I'm not for sure what the wood is on the outside of your mock up oar shafts, but looks like doug fir, perhaps. I found very straight-grained doug fir virtually knot free at Cross-Cut off Hwy 30 in Portland. I got a couple 11 footers (for boom and yard) and a 14 footer (for Mast). I know that's a drive from Coos Bay, but just for reference in case you can't find it closer (I'd call ahead).

[KenStocker]

Ken, I'm not for sure what the wood is on the outside of your mock up oar shafts, but looks like doug fir, perhaps. I found very straight-grained doug fir virtually knot free at Cross-Cut off Hwy 30 in Portland. I got a couple 11 footers (for boom and yard) and a 14 footer (for Mast). I know that's a drive from Coos Bay, but just for reference in case you can't find it closer (I'd call ahead).

It is doug fir, and I did find it here at L & L Lumber in Coos Bay. He said he deals with a couple of mills locally, and is trying to locate some now. Since it is for the oars, there's no hurry, and I'll wait to see what comes up. But thanks, I appreciate the info, even for future reference. Cross-Cut in Springfield is also an option, but they are not open on weekends which makes it tough with my schedule. But my daughter does live in White Salmon WA., (across the Columbia from Hood River)so we run right by there quite frequently. Are they open Saturdays? Again, thanks for the feedback

[KenStocker]

26639903307_6e6614a464_z.jpg40616714575_7ce474e8f6_z.jpgTook the clamps of​f of the first two planks. The acid test(called that because you should have Tums on hand?)was laying one plank on top of the other. If I did a good job of aligning the planks, they should mirror each other for port and starboard sides. Very pleased with the results...put the Tums away.

[garyb]

It is doug fir, and I did find it here at L & L Lumber in Coos Bay. He said he deals with a couple of mills locally, and is trying to locate some now. Since it is for the oars, there's no hurry, and I'll wait to see what comes up. But thanks, I appreciate the info, even for future reference. Cross-Cut in Springfield is also an option, but they are not open on weekends which makes it tough with my schedule. But my daughter does live in White Salmon WA., (across the Columbia from Hood River)so we run right by there quite frequently. Are they open Saturdays? Again, thanks for the feedback

Yes, Cross-cut (the one near Portland) is open Saturdays. (p.s. - I am not affiliated with them in any way. I got Sapele, Okoume, Doug Fir and Yellow Alaska cedar there. Used Parr for Red Western Cedar, and Rockler for the small amount of maple I used.)

[KenStocker]

Thanks,garyb always good to have another source. I'll wait and see what the local guy can come up with, but nice to have a plan B.

[KenStocker]

2018-05-05_08-42-16_40112299200_o.jpgAttachment 15728Final four planks aligned and epoxied. Added a damp cloth to the sapelle sheer strakes to get an idea of their color. I like! Though most would say I've finally just begun, I feel like it's a milestone of sorts just to be ready to set up the molds. It will finally allow me to see the actual shape of the boat, and will feel like there is a real boat in my future!

[MADOC1]

sounds like a fun project and i sure will be following.

jim

[almeyer]

Enjoy it! It's a beautiful boat as it comes together.
Al

[KenStocker]

28523138578_906e4c1c7d_o.jpgFinished attaching forms to the strong-back, squaring them up, and attaching battens to hopefully keep things square and even. Hoping tomorrow I can glue up the transom, and possibly cut out the pattern for the stem. Fun to see her take shape in 3-D!

[KenStocker]

28098585577_319984208b_z.jpg28098583587_592af886ed_z.jpgMeasuring twice, cutting once has always seemed optimistic to me. Maybe I'm the only one this applies to, but I suspect not. While double/triple checking my forms, found that they were not exactly spaced. Readjusted spacing...missed the center line alignment. Removed screws, re-centered, remeasured spacing. Sighed a lot, mostly while biting my tongue... Trimmed and planed Keelson and temporarily clamped in place. I love seeing the first permanent piece of the backbone taking shape. Next up, gluing up the transom, then shaping the mahogany on which to attach this sapelle outer layer which will match the sapelle sheer strake. Then I will know how much bend I will need for the keelson. Progress!

Ken

[KenStocker]

43149251961_60a95fb309_z (1).jpg41338541590_cec1980dcf_z.jpgUsing the sapelle transom as a template, routed the mahogany with a flush trim bit. Got a bit careless and took too big of a bite along the top edge. Couldn't have been along any other edge, where thickened epoxy and strakes would have covered my blunder! No, had to be on the one edge that will show. As I see it, I have 3 choices for the repair. 1) rip 3-4" off the top and epoxy on another piece. 2) Rip a piece of veneer to bend and epoxy over the top. 3) See if I can mix some epoxy and sawdust that would blend enough not to show drastically. The worst edge will be covered by the sapelle ply on the outside. Inside edge isn't quite split all the way through. The only part showing will be the top edge. Could try the last option first, and if not satisfied try 1 or2. Votes or other options?

[davebrown]

Your error: No Bigum dealum. Easy fix to add a veneer with pox. Do you intend to leave the stern bright? If so, maybe worth it to take off 3/4" and add a contrasting cap--locust would be great looking. You want to see how insignificant that error is? Take a look at Bruce Smith's posts on this old thread: look at the photos on no. 13.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-to-hull-joint

BTW, I support your instinct about using the epoxy on various other little side projects before scarfing. I have had a couple of scarfs glue starve, and everytime that happened, it was because I had switched epoxy brands for some reason--usually because I found something on sale and bought a gallon or two. This happened to me once when my elderly father flew out from Colorado to help me plank a boat. In order to be organized, I scarfed about a dozen planks, and the first two both snapped from glue starvation, which delayed us some, and then realized we were dreadfully sober and drank too much and never got to any of the others. Time is money, or something like that.

Watching your build with interest.

[KenStocker]

Your error: No Bigum dealum. Easy fix to add a veneer with pox. Do you intend to leave the stern bright? If so, maybe worth it to take off 3/4" and add a contrasting cap--locust would be great looking. You want to see how insignificant that error is? Take a look at Bruce Smith's posts on this old thread: look at the photos on no. 13.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-to-hull-joint

BTW, I support your instinct about using the epoxy on various other little side projects before scarfing. I have had a couple of scarfs glue starve, and everytime that happened, it was because I had switched epoxy brands for some reason--usually because I found something on sale and bought a gallon or two. This happened to me once when my elderly father flew out from Colorado to help me plank a boat. In order to be organized, I scarfed about a dozen planks, and the first two both snapped from glue starvation, which delayed us some, and then realized we were dreadfully sober and drank too much and never got to any of the others. Time is money, or something like that.

Watching your build with interest.

O.K., you got me there! I think that falls under the heading "You think YOU have problems!"

I am planning on finishing the stern bright. But I do like your idea of a contrasting piece over the top. It would serve the double purpose of hiding the top of the sapelle ply, though that's not a big deal as it will show from the sheerstrake as well. But my experience with woodworking has always been that one of the best ways to hide mistakes is to make them look intentional.

Thanks for following along!
Ken

[KenStocker]

43237095112_9f4353c459_z.jpg42382720565_ab7e78801b_z.jpg29416578818_5b57ce071e_z.jpg42382723745_c98b8f491f_z.jpgCut out the pattern for the stem today. traced it onto the Port Orford white cedar, (love the full name 'cause it's just an hour south of here!), which will be the 1/2" center piece of the 3-piece inner stem. Epoxied it together, though not primarily for strength, as that will come from the two outer layers that over-lap this inner piece. This piece will then be trimmed to the pattern, and then the other two layers trimmed to it. Progress!

[Falcon1]

Glad to see you making good progress. Tammie Norrie is such a pretty design. That plumb bow will mean more room and a longer WL for your money.

This is how I made the inner stem on my Ilur (current build.) It seemed like an easily made and shaped piece. A little different than on my Whilly Boat, where I did the glued lamination approach.

There are so many ways to construct a boat!

Have fun and keep on posting.

Mike

[KenStocker]

Thanks Mike. I've been following your build of the Ilur, she's turning out beautifully!
There are indeed many ways to construct a boat. Though my original thought was to laminate both inner and outer stems, I decided to build it in layers for a couple of reasons. One is that it seemed that it would be faster. But the primary reason was from another thread that mentioned how the seams between layers make a natural line to fair to in order to land the planks. The outer stem will be laminated white oak, as another thread says, in case my approach to the dock is a little more enthusiastic than intended. The white cedar will be easier to shape, while protected by something harder facing said dock. As soon as the inner stem is done, I will shape the outer stem around it to insure that they are at least wrong the same.

[KenStocker]

43281892062_3b8728203d_z.jpgIn the interest of full disclosure...I'm an idiot. I had epoxied the middle of 3 pieces for the inner stem. Not too worried about strength, as it will be sandwiched between two layers with off-set joints. It was more for the convenience of shaping the full piece, which then allows you to use that as a template for the outer two pieces. I was running them through the band saw to rough cut, before trimming with a flush cut router bit. As I cleared the final cut, it came out from the guide and in my carelessness gravity took over. As it fell to the floor my thought was that it would split at the seam, no big deal. What I was not expecting was the three way split. Still not a big deal, but just two steps forward, one step back. SLOW DOWN!!! The worst thing is that I know better. I keep telling myself to just enjoy the process, and for the most part I am. But sometimes I get so excited to see the next step take shape that I try to squeeze out something because I have 15 min. and can "just cut one board". Not sure that's a good idea!