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Thread: Any Band Saw Experts

  1. #1
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    Default Any Band Saw Experts

    I've got an old 30" bandsaw that I've used on and off for 35 years. Years ago the original tires were replaced with new but the tires were made with a defective rubber and checked, cracked almost immediately.. Once again, I replace the tires, crown them, everything seemed to be great. Been using the saw for a few months and for some reason the blade has quit tracking. It popped off the upper wheel and took the tire with it.. Ordered yet another tire, put it on, crowned it over the weekend, fired it up for several minutes, everything looks great, cut some wood and shut it down.
    I go down last night, fired up the saw, it instantly tracked right off the wheel and took the lower tire with it. I've played with blade tension. I'll order another tire, but at this point think I need to bring in the experts... Anybody want a beautiful old saw...........

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Maybe someone will come along with the definitive answer, but not enough info yet for me to do so. Sounds like it's time to start at the beginning and fettle the saw. I suspect that, along the way, you'll discover the cause. I'd speculate further that something has tweaked your upper wheel and cause it to no longer be co-planer with the lower wheel. Good luck!
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    I would check the bearings and check to see if the wheels are solid on their arbors. The upper wheel on my 20" saw recently had to be adjusted. Over time, it had worked itself toward the end of the arbor until it finally started to rub against the blade guard. Fortunately the ensuing clatter alerted me before the blade could come off.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    to get help online pictures really need to be there. I've found the wheel pitch in the tiniest of increments affects tracking the most. I've never seen a bandsaw without a way to "tilt" the free wheel. Good luck
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Thanks,
    There is an adjusment for tilting the top wheel and no doubt it's very touchy but the frustrating part is things are going along just fine, tracking beautifully only to come back an hour later, fire up the saw with very bad results.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    And don't forget to release the blade tension when not in use.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    What kind of tires, black rubber, or the dreaded polyurethane?
    Rattling the teacups.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    OK. Brainstorm.

    You have been using the saw for 35 years.

    Maybe the upper wheel hub needs grease, so it gets hot and comes near to seizing. Then, when you restart the saw, the resistance forces catastrophe.

    No?

    What make and model saw?

    Ball/roller bearings at the hubs, or Babbitt, or plain bearings, or what?
    Rattling the teacups.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Creep. You suffer from creep. Over the decades, of thousands of hours of running, your machine has vibrated and your machine's parts have crept ever so slightly out of proper alignment. But it only becomes apparent at the catastrophic end of that process when the blade comes off. Without changing that cause, just putting on a new tire, puts the machine right back, nearly, where it was. Getting it set back up with the blade in the proper position makes it look like it should run correctly, and the accumulated 'drift' of the arbor or whatever part, makes it appear that it is suddenly broken, when the same thing happens again after a few months instead of a few decades. Then when you fix it again, all you really did was the same thing, with the same result again, but overnight. Like putting a bandaid on an infection.

    You probably can't tell by looking that the mechanism is so slightly out of whack. The good news, I expect, is that all you need to do, after getting the tires on, is start from scratch to tune it, as if you found it at a bake sale. I have experienced this phenomenon with pretty much all machines. If you wait long enough, no matter how solid it is, it will, over time, with use, wear and shake itself out of adjustment. That's what makes used saws cheap. It is also what makes used saws a great bargain.

    Anybody want a beautiful old saw...
    Yes. I want a thirty inch saw. No. I can't have one. Now if you were to say that your decades old roadster isn't running well after putting on a new tire, I'm your guy...[imagine an appropriate smiley here.]

    Patience. Mr. Welsford will be along soon.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    It's actually a 32" saw with 30" wheels and have never been able to find out what the model was. I bought it from a local boat builder I worked for after he retired.
    Rubber tires, everything seems tight, no slop in the bearings, at least not noticeable. What I do see is that I don't think there's enough crown on the upper tire that I just installed.
    I'll install the new lower tire, and do as Jim suggests, remove all the guides and start over. Proper tension is important but on a big saw like this I'm not sure just exactly where that is with out a tension gauge.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Seriously... just tune it up. I'd be willing to bet a whole nickel that the issues will become evident. There are plenty of magazine articles, books, and videos to guide you in the process.

    Here's one basic version: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/am...g/tune-bandsaw
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Probably a silly question, but did you put a new blade on it?

    Here's something I learned setting up a bandsaw. The blade is not supposed to track in the center of the crown, it's supposed to track a little forward. The flat part of the blade should be tracking on the crown, with the set teeth off to the front. This is more apparent on wider blades but holds true.
    Last edited by Jim Ledger; 06-28-2017 at 12:47 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Seriously... just tune it up. I'd be willing to bet a whole nickel that the issues will become evident. There are plenty of magazine articles, books, and videos to guide you in the process.

    Here's one basic version: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/am...g/tune-bandsaw
    Thanks. Going to bookmark that link. Mine is about due for a tune up I think. Used to be silky smooth but after several years of use it has a slight vibration.
    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    Thanks. Going to bookmark that link. Mine is about due for a tune up I think. Used to be silky smooth but after several years of use it has a slight vibration.
    Is there a V-belt between the motor and the bottom wheel?I ask because there is a possibility that the belt may have a crack or a chunk missing.I have also known an instance when a saw that hadn't been used for a while had the belt take a bit of a set and the vibration occurred when the transition from straight portion to curved portion hit the pulley.A new belt rejuvenated the machine.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    Probably a silly question, but did you put a new blade on it?

    Here's something I learned setting up a bandsaw. The blade is not supposed to track in the center of the crown, it's supposed to track a little forward. The flat part of the blade should be tracking on the crown, with the set teeth off to the front. This is more apparent on wider blades but holds true.
    I lost a tire recently on my little 12-inch Sears saw and it definitely did something to the blade. It still tracks OK with the new tire, but it also seems to cut more roughly so I think some of the teeth got out of set.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    been reading the link that David sent along and once I have the new tire on the bottom wheel will start from scratch tuning, throw on a new blade ......something like 17'2" long.. and see what happens..

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Quote Originally Posted by WFK View Post
    been reading the link that David sent along and once I have the new tire on the bottom wheel will start from scratch tuning, throw on a new blade ......something like 17'2" long.. and see what happens..
    Sounds like a plan. Keep in mind - that link is to the most basic of tune-up regimens. There are lots of more detailed how-to's out there.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    This is from the interweb. 32" Crescent.



    This is from some guy's boat blog, of all things...


    My word, this is a large saw. ...

    we removed the old rusty guards. I initially thought it was a Crescent, but it turns out it was made by Silver Manufacturing Co., Salem, Ohio. There is a nice brass plaque that says so. It has thirty-two inch diameter wheels and a blade length of over seventeen feet! ...it appears the saw was made between nineteen-oh-four and nineteen-ten.
    His blog post is from 2011. http://elsahboat.blogspot.com/2011/1...-band-saw.html
    Our real enemy is the
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Jim, the saw in the top picture looks to be nearly identical to mine.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Along the same line of thought of Jim's 'creep' explanation, it is possible that the threads/nut assembly for the tilt adjustment are sloppy, or missing some teeth, etc. that could explain you setting things up and it runs fine, then suddenly gets out of whack and the blades jumps off.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    I keep telling my wife that a bandsaw can be beautiful. The 14" deltas have a tracking arm that is a weak part casted out of some stuff that bends over time. Lou Iturra makes a steel replacement. Is it possible that your equivalent has gone wrong? The more it deforms on the deltas the less tracking can be adjusted.
    Last edited by Boater14; 06-29-2017 at 02:36 PM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    How about the guides and thrust bearingwheels? Although, most seem to track OK even without guides and thrust bearing/wheels
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    put a dial indicator on top and bottom wheels, log the results; run the saw then do it again while it's 'hot'. I think your answer lies therein.
    Hey! It's MY Hughniverse!

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    What might he find? What will it mean? Discrepancy in wheel speed? Elaborate.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boater14 View Post
    What might he find? What will it mean? Discrepancy in wheel speed? Elaborate.
    Im wondering the same thing. What will this tell us? It feels to me like the tilt adjustment of the upper wheel is not holding.
    I would hesitate to say where on the tire all blades should ride as different width blades simply cannot ride in the same place on most saws.
    I aim to keep the back of the gullets centered on the tire except with very wide blades where the entire blade should be centered on the tire but not all saws are created equal

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    The fact that I had the saw running smooth as silk for 5 minutes. I watched the blade on the tire, it never moved, tracking beautifully. I shut it down, come back 6 hrs later, fire up and I watch as the blade tracks right off the upper wheel. I couldn't hit the off switch quick enough..
    New tire is coming, I'll keep you posted. I used to post pictures stored on imigestation (?) all the time but that was years ago. I'll have to relearn to post

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    I'm assuming you did crown the tire after install? If it is not crowned, the chances are good that it will never track well. Also, not sure where you are exactly in WA, but I recently had my Davis and Wells wheels vulcanized in Portland, OR. Very different than gluing on rubber tires. They're put on and 'cooked' with heat and pressure. Trim and crown after the vulcanizing. I crowned them myself to save a little $, but they told me they could do that also. I think it was Cascade Rubber Products, but a quick google will find you someone to do it. BTW, it was real vulcanizing, not 'cold vulcanizing'.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Thanks Joel,
    I did crown the tires but in looking at it I don't think it was enough.
    I'm 70 miles north of Seattle and will do a google search to see if there's any place in the Seattle area that could do this. It might be the way to go..

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Something often overlooked I think is that the wheels need to be co-planar. Put a good straightedge against the sides of both wheels from top of top wheel the bottom of bottom wheel. It should sit flush against them both. If a wheel has shifted on its shaft and the two are not co-planar that can cause vexing problems.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    vexing, to say the least
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert W. Long View Post
    Something often overlooked I think is that the wheels need to be co-planar. Put a good straightedge against the sides of both wheels from top of top wheel the bottom of bottom wheel. It should sit flush against them both. If a wheel has shifted on its shaft and the two are not co-planar that can cause vexing problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Maybe someone will come along with the definitive answer, but not enough info yet for me to do so. Sounds like it's time to start at the beginning and fettle the saw. I suspect that, along the way, you'll discover the cause. I'd speculate further that something has tweaked your upper wheel and cause it to no longer be co-planer with the lower wheel. Good luck!
    As is often the case with these sorts of questions... we still don't have enough info to do anything other than what's being done. Lob all the potential factors, one by one, over the transom, and hope one of them rings a bell.

    And that might help. But the odds are not good.

    There are two approaches one can take when one is in the OP's position. First - what I mentioned. Tune the thing up. Odds are good that, during the process, you'll stumble across the issue and be able to correct it. Second - Find a good local tech (often available from the distributors of woodworking machinery), and hire them on an hourly basis to diagnose the problem and explain the solution to you. Or to just fix it.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Quote Originally Posted by WFK View Post
    It's actually a 32" saw with 30" wheels and have never been able to find out what the model was.
    This has me curious. Who changed the wheels? The former owner? If so, how did he handle offsetting the upper and lower guides inboard an inch to keep them in line with the edge of the wheels? If it was done poorly, or if the setup has become sloppy, I can see how this could cause tracking issues.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Wow,
    I had no Idea this thread would gain so much interest.
    I need to back up.....My initial description of the saw was incorrect. Close from what I'd recalled but not right. It looks identical to the saw in the top picture of post 18 and when I measured to re-order the new tires, It's a 32" saw with 32" wheels. In the 35 years I've been using it, the wheels have never been touched, only the tires.
    At this point I'm looking into the volcanizing as describe by Joel in post 27 and am going to do as Jim and David suggest's, read up on it, start at the beginning and re-tune the saw. Hopefully that takes care of the issue.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Any Band Saw Experts

    Last edited by MW Jones; 07-08-2017 at 06:43 AM.

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