Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 38

Thread: Boat Shed Loft

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blue Hill, ME
    Posts
    884

    Default Boat Shed Loft

    I have a some basic construction questions and am fishing for ideas to add a loft in a boat shed. One of the reasons we bought this old place was that it had a 40x16 boat shed, that it is in Blue Hill was key. I have a B-in-law who loves construction projects, and unlike me, is quite good at it, having designed and built one of the best B&B's in MO. He also likes visiting us and wants a project, so we decided on adding a loft. He's not much with emails so I need to get the materials ready before his visit in August.




    Thinking the loft should be about 22' long and 10' above the floor, that would give enough room to loft in the loft a 20' boat and then have light storage. I don't need a lot of head room in the loft as I'm vertically challenged, now down to 5'8".

    A question about mounting the joists. The span table says 2x10x16 on 16' centers should work. Does it make a difference if they are hung on hangers or set on a ledger?

    Also would sistering(?) the uprights be advised?

    Lots more to think about before August.

    Thanks,
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    35,223

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Hangers or a ledge make no odds structurally, use whatever suits the existing structure. Can't advise on doubling the uprights.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    2,182

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    How tall is the existing ceiling? My initial take was to suggest adding joists and popping the roof up to keep the full height of your existing space, but that is not a project you can sneak past the neighbors or local build inspector very easily.

    Looks to me like you will have to lose a number of the existing joists, replacing them with collar ties so the walls don't bow out, though the new floor/ceiling of the loft space should help with that too. You will want to make sure the rafters are well secured to the top of the wall, there are brackets for this if the rafters are the usual 1.5" thick.
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blue Hill, ME
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    I have about 18' vertically to play with. The existing joists will go, replaced with some number of collar ties.

    Neither neighbors or building inspectors would be an issue here, but I should have plenty of existing space to work with as is. I just need enough of a plan and materials to keep him busy.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    313

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Wonderful boat shed! A loft will make it perfect.

    I would attach ledger 2 x 10 ledger boards to each side with (2) 3-5/8" Ledgerlok bolts (at Home Depot, runs in with an impact driver so no drilling or socket wrenches) and install the joists with joist hangers. Like Steve said, you can remove the rafter ties at the base of the rafters and replace them with collar ties located 1/3 of the way down from the ridge board. Hurricane ties / twist straps/ rafter ties along with the toe-nailing the joist hangers require will take care of all the outward forces. Last thing, for the loft floor I'd recommend Advantech subfloor. It has a 50 year warranty against swelling from moisture.

    Mike

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Deer Isle, Maine
    Posts
    1,189

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Quote Originally Posted by SBrookman View Post
    I have about 18' vertically to play with. The existing joists will go, replaced with some number of collar ties.

    Neither neighbors or building inspectors would be an issue here, but I should have plenty of existing space to work with as is. I just need enough of a plan and materials to keep him busy.
    Steve, are you saying that it is 18 feet to the top plate of the walls?
    Meaning you will have an 8 foot knee-wall to the roof rafters if you put the loft floor at 10 feet?
    Or is there 18 feet to the ridge?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blue Hill, ME
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Quote Originally Posted by jackster View Post
    Steve, are you saying that it is 18 feet to the top plate of the walls?
    Meaning you will have an 8 foot knee-wall to the roof rafters if you put the loft floor at 10 feet?
    Or is there 18 feet to the ridge?
    18' to the ridge.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blue Hill, ME
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike J View Post
    Wonderful boat shed! A loft will make it perfect.

    I would attach ledger 2 x 10 ledger boards to each side with (2) 3-5/8" Ledgerlok bolts (at Home Depot, runs in with an impact driver so no drilling or socket wrenches) and install the joists with joist hangers. Like Steve said, you can remove the rafter ties at the base of the rafters and replace them with collar ties located 1/3 of the way down from the ridge board. Hurricane ties / twist straps/ rafter ties along with the toe-nailing the joist hangers require will take care of all the outward forces. Last thing, for the loft floor I'd recommend Advantech subfloor. It has a 50 year warranty against swelling from moisture.

    Mike
    Mike, thanks, I discovered those Ledgerlock bolts last week when I was building a lean-to for boat lumber. Neat and save time.

    My wife's family is scattered all around the STL area. Have you ever been to Hermann? That's where the B&B is. Neat little German village.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Deer Isle, Maine
    Posts
    1,189

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Steve,
    Looks like you probably have a 10/12 roof pitch which would mean 6'8" or so above the top plate. If you have 18' to the ridge, that would mean 11'4" wall height? Those are tall walls!
    What Mike J suggest seems good.
    One note, if my back-of-an-envelope math is close, then collar ties 1/3rd the way down the rafters (3'3") would give you around 6' of headroom in the loft.
    Another note, collar ties hold the top of the rafters together and are a bit redundant in common construction.
    Good luck with your build.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lindstrom, MN
    Posts
    1,694

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Collar ties are only redundant when there are ceiling joists to take the thrust load at the bottom end of the rafters. The rafters will want to push the walls outwards when there is a snow load on the roof, so the loft floor joists will have to hold the walls together.

    It looks like a 12' ceiling, maybe a little more. a 10 foot ceiling puts the floor joists 2' below the point where the rafters hit the top plates on the wall. That will put a bit of a bending load on the upper ends of the studs, but that shouldn't bother a 2x6. It may bother a building inspector, but everything unconventional bothers them.

    As I read the question, and interpret the picture, you asked if the joists should sit on top of the ledger or should be attached to the face of the ledger with joist hangars.
    Setting on top of the ledger board will make it a lot easier to build. If the joists sit on top, all the ledger board does is hold the joists up until you attach them to the studs, and all of the vertical load is taken by the ledgerlock bolts, a 2x4 is plenty, not to mention easier to lift. It looks like you have 2x6 studs, so I can't see any need to double.

    The joists need to be tied laterally to the studs to take the thrust load from the roof. It would be convenient if the joists lapped far enough over the studs to nail or screw them together as in this picture from here. If the inside width is 16', you will need to tie the joists to the walls with tie plates because cutting 18' boards down to 16' 10" so you can face nail them to the studs is a pain in the NSFW. AFAIK the joist hangers support vertical loads, but are not intended for lateral loads, so the tie plates and the ledgers will do a better job. Similar construction questions.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    17,605

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Could you lap the new joists past the existing studs with a jack stud added underneath the joist?
    That would double up the "column", support the joists directly from the foundation, and function as a collar tie.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Deer Isle, Maine
    Posts
    1,189

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    I think there is a bit of "term differential" here between "rafter tie" and "collar tie (beam)".

    https://www.nachi.org/collar-rafter-ties.htm
    And, I would drill for the Ledgerlok screws. Both the ledger and the studs.
    Last edited by jackster; 06-24-2017 at 05:52 AM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blue Hill, ME
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Thanks guys, here's the image with the measurements of what I'm planning.
    '
    It is 16' wide wall to wall so I should be able to lag a 16' 2x10 to the existing studs.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Deer Isle, Maine
    Posts
    1,189

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    I wish I knew how to do that with my computer! guess I should ask my daughter.

    That 3' knee wall that results is max, in my opinion. Not standard practice.
    The collar tie does not provide spread resistance at the plate.
    However, since the loft only comes out half way (20'?) and you have the gable end tied in, I think it will work for that (8/12?) pitched roof.
    You don't indicate in the drawing, but I think you need the ledger, even with the lags.
    My (free) 2 cents anyway.
    BTW, how are you getting up 10 feet in the air? Stairs take up a LOT of floor space.
    Last edited by jackster; 06-24-2017 at 07:34 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blue Hill, ME
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Quote Originally Posted by jackster View Post
    I wish I knew how to do that with my computer! guess I should ask my daughter.

    That 3' knee wall that results is max, in my opinion. Not standard practice.
    The collar tie does not provide spread resistance at the plate.
    However, since the loft only comes out half way (20'?) and you have the gable end tied in, I think it will work for that (8/12?) pitched roof.
    You don't indicate in the drawing, but I think you need the ledger, even with the lags.
    My (free) 2 cents anyway.
    BTW, how are you getting up 10 feet in the air? Stairs take up a LOT of floor space.
    That was a quick draw, yes, planning on a ledger, but of what dimension?
    Still haven't decided on exact size of the loft, but probably 22', just over half.
    If I double a couple of the joists would that be suitable for anchoring hoists? I don't ever anticipate having boats much larger than 20' (2500#)
    How am I getting up 10'? Eventually there will be stairs in the back. For construction, that will be an issue, as maneuvering a 2x10x16 on ladders will be a challenge.

    Since you're just down the peninsula, drop by and have a look whenever you're heading this way.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    14,767

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    For construction you can rent a section or two of pipe staging very inexpensively. You might want to beef up the end joist - what will be the edge of the loft. Maybe a pair of microlams or parralams. Your lumber yard should be able to size that for you. Frame the stairwell/ladder well when you frame the loft floor, it's a pain to do it later. Maybe more of a ship's ladder than an actual staircase.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    14,767

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Here's one I built for a client:




    The 1x treads are let into dados routed into 5/4 x 12 stringers and there is a cap/handhold on the left side.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blue Hill, ME
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft


    I can see the loft looking like that. I haven't got to the stair design yet, but I like the simplicity of your steps.

    It looks like you used 2x6 for the ledger and mounted the joists above. That seems the the way to go.

    Renting scaffolding makes sense, especially considering the combined age of the 2 old farts building this will be 136, which is much younger that when Susan's dad helped with the deck, 158 yrs. But that was ground level.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blue Hill, ME
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Let the lofting begin! Wife's BinL is arriving tomorrow to work on the loft. I took what seemed to be the consensus here, and from some locals, and settled on 2x6 ledgers and 2x10x16 joists. I put up a few on my own to see what goes and how they'd fit. No big surprises other than how uncomfortable I am on a ladder. Proving that altitude and height are different animals. (I made my living spending most of my time above 30,000', but don't like 8' up.) I gave up trying to get the AdvanTech up there, I think that really is a 2 person job.

    It will be nice having a loft, might actually start lofting in that loft. Sjogin III has been on my mind for a few years.

    Here's the plan, as far as I've thought it out:

    Thanks for the inputs. I'll get some photos posted when we're done.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    14,767

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Looks great. Did you get some bolts into the ledger? Or maybe LedgerLock screws? That's one place to not just rely on nails. I'm not sure you need the little collar ties up high but if you still have a bit over 6' of headroom up there they won't hurt.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blue Hill, ME
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Yep, used LedgerLocks on the ledgers for piece of mind. Some said that the ledgers weren't even necessary. Not sure about the collar ties either, may put some every 3 or 4 frames. I plan on using your stair idea although your pics have disappeared. I'm sure we'll figure that out.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    3,118

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Good to see you last weekend. Are you thinking about tracks for hoists? I see that you have doubled some joists. Might be easy to install a track or some such before the deck goes on? And extend said track into the undecked section while you have staging and help. I've also found that there is a great temptation to sling small boats up. Currently the garage has 4 kayaks, a canoe, the ducker and an international canoe slung above the cars/ workspace. Heavy stuff goes up with a trailer winch system. Vertical space is also handy for slings to turn boats over.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,628

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    I would not want stairs there in a 40'x16' boatshop. I'd put a small landing over the window in the back wall, and build to that. I'm very envious of your shop space, and it must be sweet to consider your upcoming projects in there. All the best! / Jim

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blue Hill, ME
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Good idea Ben. Hadn't though of it but I'm now off researching tracks.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    35,223

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Small detail. Are you putting in blocking or herringbone struts to prevent the joists from tripping?
    As you are are taking out the horizontal ties do ensure that the joists will resist tension where they are joined to the ledger and studs.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    22,931

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Quote Originally Posted by chas View Post
    I would not want stairs there in a 40'x16' boatshop. I'd put a small landing over the window in the back wall....
    or some alternate solution. You're diagram shows three feet of headroom at the outside of the top step and somewhat more at the inner side. I think that would be annoying to use in the end, ducking, etc., and create problems for a carrying anything of weight or length up and down stairs. To add to Ben's suggestion of a track, I'd also have a trap door in the loft floor for pulling up/lowering anything long or heavy (spars? chain fall to a collar tie?) should there be a boat in the most open center part of the shed. (I can dream of having such a shop, can't I? Major envy here. Good luck.)
    "... and the great shroud of the sea rolled on as it rolled five thousand years ago."

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blue Hill, ME
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Good points. My lack of construction experience is showing. Herringbone struts or blocks, one better that the other?

    Stairs might not be ideal, will rethink that one also, but they're close to what Steve Bauer did.


    That boat shed, along with the small, but heated, workshop and location made putting up with remodeling a poorly built 1900 farmhouse worth it!
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    14,767

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    I think I forgot to mention it but those stairs/ladder I built were attached at the top with a heavy duty strap hinge. Some line, a couple of blocks and a counter weight and the whole thing swings up out of the way.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    10,553

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    If you can work the stairs in, I think you will be glad you did.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,628

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Those stairs work well to get you up and down; carrying stuff, not so much. You drew a much different staircase than Mr Bauer pictured. Staircases need a purpose! / Jim

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,628

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    By the way, from your pics your rafters look overbuilt for your pitch and span. I would think hard about using ply gussets at the peak and eliminating collar ties altogether, which would give a substantial increase in headroom. One man's opinion. / Jim

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    10,553

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    You migh also want to add a loft door above the entry doors to allow hoisting up lumber and other stuff for storage. I built mine to match our 1889 Victorian house so that is the reason for the extra fancy stuff.
    Jay

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    San Francisco Bay
    Posts
    11,336

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Beautiful job on the loft doors, Jay!

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blue Hill, ME
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    Very nice! That sure would dress up a Blue Hill barn but since I'll have 18' open behind the doors, I'll looking to put a hoist system on the inside.

    My construction help will be here tonight, so there should be progress to post soon.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    3,118

    Default Re: Boat Shed Loft

    For inspiration, Jimmy Steele built his pods on the second floor of his shop. When ready for paint, they'd go on the chain fall and get lowered to the shop floor.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •