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Thread: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

  1. #491
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Soooooo .....

    I've got some updates, but first the circular saw again!

    I've tried several times now with a rip guide which in my case was an aluminium straight-edge about 2 cm thick and 8 cm wide. Shops here sell them normally in 1 m, 2 m and 3 m lengths, I've got all these lengths and was using the matching one for the job. To give it all the best of starts, I laid planks the same thickness next to where I wanted to cut to have a proper even surface which enabled me to clamp it all down properly, keep it from moving etc. Ideal conditions one would think - well, at least I did!

    Sure, it was working ok-ish, but it took me a lot of time to set it all up and I can't really say that I suddenly could have done the cut with my eyes closed. Nor could I discover a real difference between the cuts with and the cuts without guide. Of course, this impression could change dramatically the moment I cut a sheet of plywood, but in my case it was planks of hardwood (Gamballa Oscuro) I was cutting. Also, I found out that if I stand slightly in front of the saw I can actually see where the blade is cutting the wood which makes it fairly easy to follow the mark I made. Which means I just won't bother any more and do without.
    Last edited by Dody; 08-06-2018 at 03:30 PM.
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  2. #492
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Quote Originally Posted by Dody View Post
    Soooooo .....

    I've got some updates, but first the circular saw again!

    I've tried several times now with a rip guide which in my case was an aluminium straight-edge about 2 cm thick and 8 cm wide. Shops here sell them normally in 1 m, 2 m and 3 m lengths, I've got all these lengths and was using the matching one for the job. To give it all the best of starts, I laid planks the same thickness next to where I wanted to cut to have a proper even surfacebe which enabled me to clamp it all down properly, keep it from moving etc. Ideal conditions one would think - well, at least I did!

    Sure, it was working ok-ish, but it took me a lot of time to set it all up and I can't really say that I suddenly could have done the cut with my eyes closed. Nor could I discover a real difference between the cuts with and the cuts without guide. Of course, this impression could change dramatically the moment I cut a sheet of plywood, but in my case it was planks of hardwood (Gamballa Oscuro) I was cutting. Also, I found out that if I stand slightly in front of the saw I can actually see where the blade is cutting the wood which makes it fairly easy to follow the mark I made. Which means I just won't bother any more and do without.
    I have a circular saw guide somewhere as well Dody, but I've found the same thing. I can cut just as straight free-hand, with less setup time and fuss.

  3. #493
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    The really good news is that I have found a (paid) helper for possibly the next 2 months to move things a bit ahead and get some progress done. We started Tuesday the week before.

    It is good, but also very difficult for me. After working for nearly 4 years on my own I suddenly not only have to plan ahead for 2 people, have the work lined up to avoid dead time, explain how I want things to be done in Portuguese to someone who's native language is Russian and who's Portuguese is not bad but not good enough to understand everything (not that my Portuguese could be called perfect!). The space to work at (my aftdeck) is too small to work next to each other on different jobs, and if I prepare stuff - like planing down a plank of wood downstairs for use as spacers in several areas later for example - there is constant interruptions because he found something else, needs something, has a question about something or starts stuff he's not supposed to or does things in a way I don't want. Maybe it's all a matter of getting used to, but right now I stopped doing other stuff and just stay around where he is working, getting tools ready or handling materials. Still, there is some arguments going on about how something is to be done. I find it quite stressful at the moment, although there are some things he's actually quite good with. Sitting around is something he's not good with. We'll see.

    First of all we cut the aft-part of my little cabin off to get access to all the deckbeams behind

    03-IMG_9093.jpg

    The deckbeams themselves were all a bit damaged on the top. It made me instantly remember Dave's suggestion on the part I was working before: take off the first and maybe second layer from the top and laminate new battens on.

    But there is more: the deckbeams themselves were all a bit out of shape. We determined the one behind the little house to be the one closest to how it should be and used him as a reference. The result was, that all the others need to be higher in different areas

    16-IMG_9106.jpg

    We started aft going forward. First get these little stringers at the proper height

    04-IMG_9094.jpg

    laminating

    17-IMG_9107.jpg

    Next one you can see it's quite a bit weird construction. The deckbeam is interrupted in the centre by what is actually my samson-post, or better: the construction to support and spread the loads. I find it quite a strong way of doing this and want to keep it. But the top part was in a sorry state

    11-IMG_9101.jpg
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  4. #494
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    We found this out on Thursday and lucky me did not only have 6 m of brand new steel U-Profile with the same dimensions laying around in my workshop, but also Zemanel, one of the welders here was able to spare a few minutes and weld me this new piece in.

    21-IMG_9113.jpg

    24-IMG_9116.jpg

    25-IMG_9117.jpg

    got the deckbeam at the samson-post laminated on the top and the last one fo the little cabin

    29-IMG_9122.jpg

    26-IMG_9119.jpg
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  5. #495
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    What I absolutely didn't like the look of is the underconstruction of the deckbeam at the samson-post. And that there was only one lam keeping the 2 parts together in the centre. We took the crosspiece out

    37-IMG_9130.jpg

    and I made something different from Kamballa

    39-IMG_9132.jpg

    40-IMG_9133.jpg

    It was a tight an perfect fit. Unfortunately my helper hasn't got anything with angled cuts, and unfortunately I didn't tell him that one side has an angled cut an the other side a 90 degree cut when taking it out to work on it further he wouldn't listen and gave it a big hit on his side (the angled one) to make things go faster and split the wood a bit. Well, nothing that can't be repaired but still, I wasn't very happy

    54-IMG_9148.jpg

    I'll attach it with 2 threaded bars cut to length on both sides. The idea came to me to counter-bore the bottom-part as well, so I can hide the nut and cut the bolt so that it doesn't stick out underneath and hurt me in case I've got to crawl aft should something go wrong there one day. I kept Dave's suggestion in mind to stick some piece of wood into the whole to give the bit the necessary support. But in this case my drill from the top was not long enough anyway, I had to take the piece out to complete the hole. Actually, if I use a very thin drill to come out on the other side to mark where the centre of the hole is I can use this mark to drill the counter-bore and then comlete the hole with the 8mm drill. I tried it and it worked really well!

    We've sanded the prepared deckbeams level now, laminated 2 lams underneath the samson-post deckbeam and laminated a new top-layer on the beam we had used as a reference.

    48-IMG_9141.jpg

    Now we've got to get the heights of the deckbeams sorted to match what is coming from the front to get a nice and even curve (my deck is whaleback) sorted.
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  6. #496
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    I have a circular saw guide somewhere as well Dody, but I've found the same thing. I can cut just as straight free-hand, with less setup time and fuss.
    Great Chris, thanks, I can't be that wrong then !
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  7. #497
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    looks like you are making good progress dody. it does make me a bit a tad nervous for you with a helper that won't listen and argues with you. i know he can do the heavy lifting, but i am not sure i would keep him around. hope you are not paying him much. anyway good luck.

    jim

  8. #498
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Thank you jim!!!

    It's hardly any heavy lifting at the moment, but heaps of work waiting to be done. Fortunately we are making progress and luckily still more progress than would be possible on my own.
    The thing is that I absolutely couldn't stand it if someone would constantly be at my back repeatedly telling me the same things all over again and permanently interfering before something goes wrong. As employee this would drive me mad, as employer this would drive me mental. Instead I explain everything once, ask if he's got any questions and if he understood what I've asked him to do, let him explain with his own words if necessary and let him do it. If it's not right it has to come out and he's got to start all over again. Which happened quite a few times since he's started working with me. Fortunately he's got some bright moments then and asks me why this was not good. And fortunately this leads to him listening with a bit more attention to what I tell him now, and to ask questions.

    It's fairly possible that I'm too fussy about certain things, but I've done all the rest of the work about my deck to my very best of abilities concerning quality of workmanship and don't see any reason why my aftdeck should be just thrown together. Simple things. We wanted to laminate 3 new layers on the top of the deckbeam at the end of the little cabin. To let him do some work too, I let him cut the lams to the correct shape at the edges and the proper length of course. Friday evening, laminating done, work finished for the day I had a good look around everything and discovered the edge on the portside consisting of 3 nice little steps with strange angles instead of one straight and proper cutting-line. We're not building houses, we are re-building a boat. Monday morning this had to come out. He wouldn't understand why, and then asked me to do the cuts instead.
    Making knees. We talked about each single one, and he managed a nice result. Now it was time for sanding and the first coat of varnish (50:50 with thinner). I asked him to varnish the backside (which doesn't look as nice as the front) first, explained that 4 hours later when it's touch-dry we would turn them around and then do the frontside. For some reason he had to varnish the frontside first instead. "Oh, but that doesn't matter, it's all the same anyway". It might not matter to him, but I found out that I can varnish both sides in a day if I start with the backside, let it get dry to the touch, turn them around, varnish the frontside and thus allow the frontside to get nearly 24 hours of drying-time without having any marks of whatever I used to keep the pieces off the floor. The back nobody will see, so it doesn't really matter if there should be marks, still, it's protected. The other way around I can't get all 3 coats on in 3 days.

    Of course things go wrong here and there. No point in getting upset, he would only try to hide it next time and me having to play detective to find it. So, I make a joke about it and get on with the job.

    Payment. For northern European standards it's not a lot, for Portuguese standards it's good money. Although, he's been working on several other boats here before, sometimes for months, and got paid by the hour. His hourly rate was quite a lot more than what I'm paying.

    I'm too worn out now, will post some pics tomorrow!
    Last edited by Dody; 08-10-2018 at 08:30 PM.
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  9. #499
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    Default

    More ... It was a bit breezy, he was supposed to do some sanding & paintwork upstairs after doing the varnish. We found a good place downstairs for it to dry and I asked him to tell me if more space is needed (was planing the battens for the beamshelf in the meantime on the other side & in front) so we could find some additional protected space. He didn't report back, so I thought all is well.

    Evening came, weekend, after he went home I hoovered upstairs and carried all the new knees upstairs to be protected from humidity during the night. I found out the space for the varnished knees to dry was not enough, he had placed a few knees somewhere directly under the stern and aft-part of Tonga (partly open at the bottom) where he was doing the sanding and later the paintjob. It doesn't really matter as this was just the 1st coat but, surprise, surprise, lots of dust from sanding and even paint-drips on the varnished surface.

    Now, we're not talking about a 12 year-old, but someone in his mid-sixties. I don't want to be unjust, but is it really asking too much in either telling me that he's run out of protected space or find a proper solution by himself? Dust from sanding eventually finds its way below, we all know that. And not that there need to be any paintdrips if one knows what he's doing, but why place something directly below risking this to happen?

    Well, I might be too fussy or just expecting too much from someone who should know better.

    I'll do the varnishing over the weekend myself and might have a chat with him on Monday. No idea if it's worth the trouble ...

    At least, in comparison with my French neighbour Philippe who's been employing him on and off for ages for monster-fees and really struggling to achieve what he needed him to do, I seem to have a pretty easy-going life concerning him.

    Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Dody; 08-11-2018 at 08:45 AM.
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  10. #500
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Plans are great, but things are not always going to plan on a boat!

    On one of my more intensive checks at the weekend I discovered this:

    01-IMG_9142.jpg

    02-IMG_9143.jpg

    Oh I know you bastard, I've seen you before!!! I immediately soaked it in woodpreserver hoping to kill whatever might still be alive to prevent spreading anything while removing it. Monday came and we took it all out

    03-20180806_100307.jpg

    10-IMG_9159.jpg

    13-IMG_9162.jpg
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  11. #501
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    The deckbeam also was affected

    17-IMG_9167.jpg

    Right, got to laminate a new one! I had made a drawing for Larks some while ago (Larrikin H 28 - thread) how to get the crown of the deckbeam right and dug it out to build my jig.

    1-IMG_8743.jpg

    Suddenly I remembered I had kept one of the old deckbeams from around the widest part of Tonga. It was constantly in my way, the ends were gone on this one, but the rest was not too bad. I got it out of my workshop and actually, it looked as if it could work.

    14-IMG_9164.jpg

    If it wasn't for my helper I would probably have made a new one anyway. As it was, I wanted to get on with the job and don't spent time playing, so, we used this one. And to save even more time, instead of making a new wedge shaped to the curve of the deckbeam I used an offcut of a healthy part of the deckbeam we had to take out and cut it flush on the bottom.

    05-20180806_130202.jpg

    16-IMG_9166.jpg
    Last edited by Dody; 08-12-2018 at 08:55 AM.
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  12. #502
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Installing and getting it all shipshape

    19-IMG_9170.jpg

    1-IMG_9178.jpg

    My Helper had a little accident with the support of the deckbeam 1 further forward, the one where the end of the deckhouse lands on. Not sure if this might even have been on purpose because we had quite some discussions about the height of this deckbeam. Him being the opinion it needs to be sanded further down a lot, me working to convince him that it needs to be higher to give a smooth curve to match the deckbeams further forward. However, at one moment, suddenly and unexpectedly, I found this deckbeam to be lifted above the frame where it is supposed to sit on flash with gap of maybe 8 cm from the bottom of the wedge to the frame instead, same to the support. Sure enough he couldn't explain how this could have happened.

    I banged it back in place with a mallet and made a new construction for underneath and a new leg. With this I got carried away a bit concerning the bolts on the bottom, overkill so to speak. I had bought them many years ago, absolutely love them, and was super-happy that I finally had found a place where I could use some of them.

    1-IMG_9176.jpg

    1-IMG_9177.jpg
    Last edited by Dody; 08-12-2018 at 09:00 AM.
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  13. #503
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    There was something I found really annoying. Have a look at the crossbeam you can see behind my samson-post:

    1-IMG_9125.jpg

    or from the top

    1-IMG_9094.jpg

    Everything aft of that is the new construction I did together with Albertino when we re-built the stern. All this is pretty strong, certainly stronger than these 2 planks. On top of that, I tried it, the moment the new deck is in place, I will never ever again be able to crawl past it should there be a problem one day. These planks had to go, no way to keep them!

    1-IMG_9181.jpg

    1-IMG_9189.jpg

    I still couldn't say it'll be a lot of fun to work there if need be, but at least it's possible now!
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  14. #504
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    There might still be some bolts here and there to add, for the meantime we started a mass-production of the knees. First 2 coats are on now, 1 more to go

    3-IMG_9186.jpg

    4-IMG_9188.jpg

    And because they can't just go in like this, everything behind them needs to be protected with paint first. And of course the meeting edges of my new crosspiece at the samson-post

    2-IMG_9182.jpg

    And because I can't do without any more I too have a proper moaning-chair now :-D!

    6-20180805_143711.jpg
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

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