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Thread: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

  1. #876
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    When you go to bend some thicker pieces, there are a lot of videos out there. This one explains the function of the compression strap nicely and at about 9 minutes shows some examples of compression failures. When you bent the stack of laminations, you saw how much the wood would have to have been compressed on the inside had you steam bent the piece as a solid plank.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  2. #877
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Heat from a paint stripper gun will soften the epoxy squeeze out so that it can be scraped off.
    I tried it today with cleaning up Nick, it really works!!! Was very careful, using the heatgun only on the lowest setting and for a very short time, preferring to use it a second and 3rd time instead of adding too much heat and risking that the rest goes soft too. Thanks again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Looks nice and tight. Baking paper is good instead of clingfilm.
    Awesome Phil, we've assembled quite a lot of different ways now to prevent the Epoxy from sticking where it's not supposed to be! Baking paper, this never crossed my mind - got to try it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Dody, consider making them thinner and adding 1 or 2 more. Lams should not need severe clamping pressure, also, when the lams are longer they are easier to bend and clamp.
    Denise, with the last set on Friday I noticed it was going a bit easier. The initial radius was 24 cm, the lamination had grown to a thickness of 3.5 cm this morning so the radius had increased to 27.5 cm the moment I started this afternoon.

    Things don't always go as planned. I was wondering about adding a 5th lam today. Then it came to me that it would be a nasty misery to clean up if one should split, and as it's me having to sort it I wasn't keen on trying yet. As it always happens the moment I've started mixing my epoxy, someone came over for a chat. Concentration on the job was not as it should have been, so instead of stopping to apply straight epoxy on the inner side of the last lam, I gave the outer side a coat as well. Damn!!! A rush to my workshop, found a lam that didn't have the entire length, a quick sand of the edges, and a coat on the inner side. Risk it? Yes! Mixed the filler, applied it with the notched spreader, into the jig and see how it goes. It did work okay and so far I couldn't find a split yet. Will know more about it tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    When you go to bend some thicker pieces, there are a lot of videos out there. This one explains the function of the compression strap nicely and at about 9 minutes shows some examples of compression failures. When you bent the stack of laminations, you saw how much the wood would have to have been compressed on the inside had you steam bent the piece as a solid plank.
    This is really impressive Dave, thank you!!!
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  3. #878
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    And now for a change something completely different!

    Sailing to Peniche on Saturday turned out to be something very special I really enjoyed. It wasn't only the fact that I was able to be out there again, the whole thing was just awesome and overwhelming, even though I'm not religious.

    We left after a hearty lunch with 2 boats. Companheiro de Deus (who had everything aft of amidships completely replaced this spring to get more buoyancy aft, should show the pictures some time), and Joao Floripes.

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    What I didn't know was that Nossa Senhora da Nazaré, the very special saint of Nazaré, would also come with us. The saying goes that a prince was hunting a deer on horseback in bad visibility when the deer lost it's footing and fell off the cliff, the prince not being aware of the danger and Nossa Senhora de Nazaré saved him from the same fate. She's got a little chapel up on the cliff where it happened and it's located on the cliff more or less in front of her in the photo.

    04-IMG_0059.jpg

    And I found out that Nazaré has it's own flag

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    cont. ...
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  4. #879
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    The closer we got to Cabo Carvoeiro, the Cape one has to go around to get to Peniche when coming from the North, the worse the visibility got

    08-IMG_0097.jpg

    Which was a real shame, because obviously we had an appointment. The Fishing-Boats from the people living on the Berlinga-Islands in front of Cabo Carvoeiro and we were planned to meet in front of the Cape and nearly all the Fishing-Boats from Peniche had come out to welcome and accompany us into the port. All boats dressed up with flags, but no visibility ...

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    bit by bit it got better though

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    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  5. #880
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Entering the port of Peniche there was a huge amount of people cheering and welcoming the boats

    18-IMG_0143.jpg

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    20-IMG_0154.jpg

    Nossa Senhora de Nazaré was unloaded and brought to a church nearby, we docked the boats in the fishing-port and the town of Peniche had arranged a meal for all the crews. As quite some of the boats come to Nazaré for their yearly maintenance I knew quite some of the people which was extra-nice.

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    Last edited by Dody; 08-04-2019 at 09:12 PM.
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  6. #881
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Walking around Peniche some of us ended up at the church they had taken all the saints to, and then somehow we all got separated. I had (wanted) to get back on board for the procession in the bay (and to get my transport back to Nazaré sorted) and with all the security-stuff the easiest would be to wait for Nossa Senhora da Nazaré to come out of the church and walk with the people carrying her down to the water where she'll be loaded on the boat again.

    The bells were ringing, one saint after another was carried out, but Nossa Senhora de Nazaré didn't show up.

    23-IMG_0174.jpg

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    as number 17, finally, she turned up and 2 of the guys who were on Companheiro de Deus also, so off we went.

    25-IMG_0179.jpg

    Before stepping into the boat that would bring us back to Companheiro de Deus there were huge cheers when the guy on the micro explained about Nossa Senhora da Nazaré, which boat she's on, that we were the ones who had the longest voyage to get there (hm, yes, well, 25 Nautical Miles ...) and that she even has international accompaniment (which meant me as a foreigner, no idea who told them). Unfortunately my camera is not very good with capturing stuff at night, it was awesome to see all these colored lights on the ships. We went for a huge round in the bay in the dark, it was impressive!

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    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  7. #882
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Excellent Dody, thank you for taking the trouble to share!
    Brian

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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Very cool!

    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

  9. #884
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    Thank you Brian and Pete, happy you liked it!

    I've got something mysterious here. Could it be that Epoxy-resin can weep through the wood??? I am 100 % certain that it was not me who applied it there!

    Takes ages but at least I've come to the point where I can reduce the width and will have it easier = need less pressure on the outside.





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    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  10. #885
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    That's epoxy weeping through the pores, Dody. It's a good thing. Just sand it flush and proceed as planned.

    Jim

  11. #886
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Dody, thanks for sharing your trip to Peniche. What a wonderful experience! The transom knee looks great too. I'm looking forward to seeing it come together.

  12. #887
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dody View Post
    Thank you Brian and Pete, happy you liked it!

    I've got something mysterious here. Could it be that Epoxy-resin can weep through the wood??? I am 100 % certain that it was not me who applied it there!

    Takes ages but at least I've come to the point where I can reduce the width and will have it easier = need less pressure on the outside.



    Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk
    You seem to have found a very nice port to have been laid up for several years. Some supply problems, but quite a place to visit.

    Epoxy should not permeate wood. It is difficult to work with epoxy without getting it everywhere. At least for some of us it is. Assuming that you are not a slob like me, there must have been some cracks cause by bending, porosity or other defects that you managed to repair by mixing the epoxy on the thin side. When you sand the surface to get a good bond to the next layer, it would be interesting to see if there is a pattern that shows where the epoxy seeped through.

    If you had added some dye like fluorescein to the resin, you could cut it up and see where... OK, bad idea. Note to Epoxyboy: RE: "Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!" Meetings

    This looks a lot like gamballa:

    Does the endgrain look like this?

    https://www.wood-database.com/albizia/ If this is the same wood, read the comments and avoid the sawdust.
    Last edited by MN Dave; 08-06-2019 at 12:23 PM.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  13. #888
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    Glue will permeate thin veneers or lams, when we replaced some large sections of veneer on my baby grand I had to stop and rethink about using titebond, contact cement, or old school hide glue, which matches dark woods perfectly.

    Epoxy seeping through laminations will take on the color of the wood with the varnish when it's applied
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  14. #889
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    Not sure about the wood being the same. I had a look at this plank I've still got in my workshop which was sold to me as Iroko. The end-grain does look a bit similar with some imagination. The weathered plank does look different from weathered scraps of Kamballa oscura I have laying around. The grain is a lot less wild but more straight - which might depend on how the tree was growing I guess - and it's a bit finer.



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    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  15. #890
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Not sure? Not surprising. Every tine I look at this I find a different answer.

    If you look at the Albizia pictures on Hobbithouse, most don't seem to match well, partly because it appears that there are a number of species lumped together. http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/albizia.htm

    You need to sand end grain to a pretty good finish to see the details. This is a little over the top: http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/w...DATE/index.htm
    Bruce Hoadley recommended a thin shaving with a razor. A smart phone set on a tall glass makes a fair low magnification microscope.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  16. #891
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    That's epoxy weeping through the pores, Dody. It's a good thing. Just sand it flush and proceed as planned.

    Jim
    Thank you Jim! My immediate idea was that, whatever the reason, the epoxy would glue and seal where it managed to get through when it cures, so the effect on the piece I'm making can't be that terrible.

    Yesterday and today I noticed a very interesting development: as the radius is slowly getting bigger, I didn't need as much clamping-pressure on the outer edge, and with the 5 lams I applied yesterday there was very little weeping. I'm pretty sure now that it has to do with the clamping-pressure I had to apply to get them into the correct shape. In a way, theoretically, under different circumstances, I would be scared that I applied too much pressure and caused starved glue-joints. But I'm not, because I had a very good look at the end-pieces I cut off on both sides with the first 5 laminations, and they looked perfect. So I'm convinced there is nothing to worry about
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  17. #892
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Dody, thanks for sharing your trip to Peniche. What a wonderful experience! The transom knee looks great too. I'm looking forward to seeing it come together.
    Thanks Chris! For both! But, to be honest, after it has been taking so much time to make the knee - and it's still not done - I'm starting to ask myself the question what if I should mess it up in cutting it to the correct shape? I know, I haven't messed up anything yet, so I shouldn't worry at all. But, it would be a real bugger!!!
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  18. #893
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    You can just glue some more wood back on.

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  19. #894
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    You seem to have found a very nice port to have been laid up for several years. Some supply problems, but quite a place to visit.
    I think so too, actually nearly from the first moment when I arrived in a bit of a feathered and weathered state after my encounter with Hurricane Bill in 2009 (one of those who bounced back) to lick my wounds and heal my ship. I came from the Azores and was on my way to Camarińas in Galicia/Spain, lost heaps of northing with Bill to stay out of the worst, and then my hydraulic ram broke. The nearest port I could enter no matter what the tides or the weatherconditions were doing was Nazaré 120 NM away or Leixoes more than 240 NM to the North of my position and the wind forecast to be coming from there soon.
    "Nearly" because the voluntary Harbormaster wanted to chuck me out the moment I arrived, claiming he didn't have any space in the Marina. My reaction wasn't very nice, he changed his attitude and even helped me docking alongside one of the quay-walls in the fishing-port. I had been 12 and a half days at sea and soaked up all the wonders, smells and noises happening around me like a sponge. The smell of algae, seagull-s***, fish, dogs barking, people unloading their catch, talking, someone singing, diesel-engines starting and maneuvering with their dark regular sounds, seagulls in the air and calling for scraps of fish, getting dark, lights being turned on and then pouring down with rain while I was happily sitting with a huge smile on my face on my foredeck with a glass of red wine and not caring at all about getting wet to the bones, or about my hands which had swollen to double the size with the steering by hand with lines I had rigged and pulleys because my emergency-tiller was below the aft-deck and the damn remains of the hydraulic ram kept blocking the whole lot, but weather not permitting to get it sorted.

    The next morning the fishing-boat behind me cast off her lines to go out fishing, stopped alongside, and the captain asked me if I would come over to have dinner with them this evening, it's my birthday? That's how it started for me and bit by bit I belonged to them and got "adopted" as happened with many others who weren't scared to be in contact with these very special and wonderful people.

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    Epoxy should not permeate wood. It is difficult to work with epoxy without getting it everywhere. At least for some of us it is. Assuming that you are not a slob like me, there must have been some cracks cause by bending, porosity or other defects that you managed to repair by mixing the epoxy on the thin side. When you sand the surface to get a good bond to the next layer, it would be interesting to see if there is a pattern that shows where the epoxy seeped through.
    Dave, I've got the impression that it has to do with the clamping-pressure I had to apply. As I wrote above, with the last set I did yesterday I needed less pressure to get the ends in place and I had less epoxy weeping through. And I tell you something else: I always use too much, so I'm a slob as well!

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    If you had added some dye like fluorescein to the resin, you could cut it up and see where... OK, bad idea. Note to Epoxyboy: RE: "Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!" Meetings

    This looks a lot like gamballa:

    Does the endgrain look like this?

    https://www.wood-database.com/albizia/ If this is the same wood, read the comments and avoid the sawdust.
    Concerning the wood, I had a look at the website you mention here and checked Iroko https://www.wood-database.com/iroko/

    Everybody knows I'm no specialist in this, but to me the pictures they show for Iroko looks much much more similar to what I'm using to laminate the knee.

    iroko-sealed-jh-200x200.jpg

    iroko-endgrain-jh-200x200.jpg
    Last edited by Dody; 08-14-2019 at 04:52 AM.
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  20. #895
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    You can just glue some more wood back on.

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    Gosh, you're absolutely right Phil, thank you!!!
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  21. #896
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    Back into sharpening my chisels while the knee is tediously slow growing ...



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    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  22. #897
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    Oh... My!

    Clearly I had no understanding of how large it has to be!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  23. #898
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    Default Re: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Oh... My!

    Clearly I had no understanding of how large it has to be!
    Phhhmmmmhhhh, you got me there Denise ! Luckily only 31 mm missing now!
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

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