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Thread: Re-building my Ketch Tonga (1960)

  1. #316
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Sorry Chris, still no pic to the subject!

    I got a bit carried away with a tool-sharpening-session after my coarser stones have arrived. It kind of started the morning after my last post and I guess I'll have it all under control early afternoon tomorrow. No blood, no sympathy, I know !

    The outcome is, that it looks like I can easily do without the expensive machine. Sure, it would be a completely different story if I had a company doing all this professionally, which I have not and certainly don't intend to have. The coarser stones did a lot of magic, and progress was visible with every stroke.

    What I was doing the last days was not a typical everyday tool-sharpening session. I had 5 new planes where 4 of the irons out of the package were completely out of shape. The bevel needed to be brought to the necessary 25 degree angle, which they didn't have, and the back of the blade needed polishing. This is something I have to do once in the lifetime of the iron. Getting the micro-bevel on when this was done was quick and easy.

    The other thing was my chisels. I had really butchered them by using a high-speed bench grinder and a can of water all these years before, the angle of the bevel was different on each single one of them, and I had even managed to use them with the cutting-edge not being at 90 degrees to the iron. There were heaps of nicks where I had hit nails and the surface of the bevel was full of dents and unevenness.

    Guess I don't need to tell you that, under normal circumstances, your tools don't look like this. They had to be brought back to life and this is what I did.

    Maybe I have that wrong, and I really hope the experienced ones will let us know. Right now I think, as long as I don't hit nails making nicks in my irons, it will only be down to a regular sharpening from time to time. As long as it's only this, it's a pretty quick job with my stones and good fun too when the sun is shining and I'm nicely sheltered from the wind in my little corner (still using too much water which drips down on my feet which wouldn't make it pleasant in winter unless I wear wellies ! Getting better with it though!).

    Concerning the practical side I underestimated the necessity of flattening the stones regularly.

    I absolutely enjoy working with these Japanese water-stones: sliding your tool to sharpen over the surface has a very soft little noise and instantly leaves a darkish footprint on the stone and in the water, whow, something is happening! The next few strokes accumulate kind of a muddy stuff where your stroke ends and gives you a hint about something happening which feels great. This muddy stuff is a mixture of the metal coming off your iron and the grains of the stone coming off to expose new, sharp grains, for your next stroke. Now, what does that tell us? Yes, of course, material is taken away and dishes the stone out.

    First I thought I will only have to use the flattening-stone occasionally, maybe in the evening before I store my tools away. Now, curious as I am I had to have a look at what is happening every now and again and with the second or third blade, surprise, surprise, the structure of the newly exposed metal had a strange shape! As we're talking new irons and bevels, this could have been caused by the shape of the blade itself of course. To eliminate more question-marks from my side I gave the stone a good scrub on the flattening stone and, needless to say, the exposed metal started to look even. After this experience, every time I had finished with an iron on the stone I was working with, I instantly flattened it for the next time I'm using it and things worked smoothly from then on. Sure, the stones will get thinner and thinner with use, but if you are interested in a good result with sharpening, your stones need to be absolutely flat.

    Concerning effort and time, after getting in the rhythm somewhat, I managed to get a completely wrecked chisel nicely back in shape and sharp within 30 Minutes. Going back to my time with the high-speed bench-grinder and the oilstone afterwards I must say this is quite a bit faster, with a much better result. Especially when one thinks about the tempering of the iron getting destroyed by the heat of the process with the bench-grinder (although I chucked it in water all the time), which means - hopefully - with the new method it will keep the edge for much longer.

    Now for those who might be a bit puzzled what I'm talking about ...

    I got myself a large Naniwa flattening-stone which looks like this:



    for the tougher jobs and very coarse grinding I got myself a Shapton Ha-no-kuromku in grain 120. It's a ceramic waterstone and it just eats the metal on my chisels. Whatever nick there was, some minutes later nothing remained of it and the bevel was flat.



    My next weapon for the case is a Sigma select II in grain 240. I bought it because it is meant to happily deal with HSS and any hardened steel better than others. It does work nicely, but I had to get used to it as water wouldn't stay on top of the surface but inside the stone itself, giving it off as needed. It looks like this:



    Then I got carried away a bit, but I absolutely don't regret it. A Naniwa Professional Stone grit 400. It's meant to be used for a quick sharpening between jobs and at the same time able to deal with the stuff the 120 Shapton and the 240 Sigma Select II is up to. It's true and I absolutely love working with this one. Only, when I detected the wear and tear, I started to try to control myself a little bit and use the Shapton for the chisels since.



    Now that was for the rough stuff, let's get to sharpening ...
    Last edited by Dody; 09-23-2017 at 08:23 PM.
    fair winds, Dody
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  2. #317
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Steady on old girl, or you have to be buying replacement blades soon.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  3. #318
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    You might remember, that these coarse stones arrived a bit over a week ago. What I had since a few weeks before that where Japanese water stones meant for sharpening, polishing and honing. My trouble with this new Stanley no. 4 blade I was writing about earlier was, that it was completely out of shape. At the time I didn't have the coarser stones and had to make do with what I have, which took ages of course. I got there in the end, but life could have been much easier ...

    However, for sharpening I got myself a Cerax 700 grit to start the process



    and a Cerax 1000 for the next stage


    They came with a silicon-holder and a Nagura-stone. You might be laughing about me now, but this silicone-holder is a god-sent for me. The work-space I'm using next to the tap and behind the ISN-building is covered in paint and all kind of stuff and has a very uneven surface. Without these holders my stones would keep slipping and wobbling away and making the job terrible. As it is, I can use the holder for the coarser stones too, which is great!!!
    This Nagura stone I'm supposed to slide across the surface. Well, that's what the pictographs in the instructions show, but, as I can't read any Japanese I'm kind of a bit of a loss what they are actually good for.

    And now to the last one. It's a Suehiro Rika grit 5000 honing stone



    I've used it with my plane irons, but, to save time and get the job over and done with as there were so many chisels, I didn't use it for the chisels. Well, not this time.

    What I'm hoping for is, that from now on, if I treat them nicely and sharpen as soon as needed, with the 3 last stones I was showing you here, it shouldn't be this huge effort I had to go through now. Well, time will tell I guess.
    fair winds, Dody
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  4. #319
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Steady on old girl, or you have to be buying replacement blades soon.
    Gosh Nick, you're right of course as always ! But honestly, how was I meant to sort out this mess with my chisels?
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
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  5. #320
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    now that is what i would call taking us to school! great course on sharpening. i don't think i will go that far, but i believe many will. thx.

    jim

  6. #321
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Wow. Just... wow. Dody you don't do anything by halves, that's certain! I just purchased my first set of decent socket chisels and a couple of hand planes last winter. Haven't done more than hone them lightly with sandpaper so far but now I'm thinking I will need to upgrade my sharpening kit for sure.
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  7. #322
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    Lovely warmish day today, thought I better spoil myself with a bit of walking on the beach. Haven't done that for ages as "my" beach was crowded with Tourists this summer. Well, crowded with maybe 10 groups of people that is. Now nearly back for myself. In the distance, near the lighthouse some bigger waves starting to form already. Not long now and it's gonna be spectacular again. Some of the big-wave guys are on their way and I had a chat with Garret McNamarra yesterday, so he is here already.

    Thought you might enjoy a look


    Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Dody; 09-24-2017 at 05:41 PM.
    fair winds, Dody
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  8. #323
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    is that area a big time mecca for the surfers?

    jim

  9. #324
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Yes jim. I haven't got the latest updates, but a few months ago the record for the biggest waves ever surfed stands for Nazaré. They've got an underwater Canyon here that ends at the harbour-entrance but goes down to 5000 m a bit further out. Gales out on the North Atlantic push mighty waves towards the Portuguese coast and they get kind of reflected by this underwater-canyon reaching incredible heights on the North-Beach.

    These waves are extremely dangerous as there is tons of water cascading down the front slope once they are breaking, they are fast, and surfing them is only possible with modern equipment which means powerful jetskis to get the surfer to the top of the wave and try to pick him/her up before they hit the big tumble. Mavericks, Hawaii and all the other well known places they have managed without, which is impossible here. All this started only recently, to be exact in 2010, as before that time they didn't have the equipment or the experience. Garret McNamarra was the first one to give it a try and made this place known around the worlds best ...

    There is heaps of videos around, but just for a little impression maybe this video:

    Last edited by Dody; 09-24-2017 at 06:00 PM.
    fair winds, Dody
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  10. #325
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    I will be watching to see how you get along with the nagura stone.I have owned one for a few years and have never really used it as my 6000 grit stone gives a mirror like finish.My understanding is that the nagura stone is used to generate a fine slurry that gives a superior finish.

  11. #326
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Although already a few years old I still love this one:



    However, sometimes the constellation is just right. Often they knock on my boat to let me know before they head out, and then I go up to the North beach to watch the waves and spend whole days up there. I can't describe it, it's fascinating, it captures and overwhelms me to watch the forces of nature unchained and what it can do ....it's just awesome and I never tire of it !!!

    Strange enough, the port is so well conceived that you can enter in any conditions. And, once inside, extremely well sheltered.
    Last edited by Dody; 09-24-2017 at 05:40 PM.
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  12. #327
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    I will be watching to see how you get along with the nagura stone.I have owned one for a few years and have never really used it as my 6000 grit stone gives a mirror like finish.My understanding is that the nagura stone is used to generate a fine slurry that gives a superior finish.
    Thanks John, your info is a big help in understanding for me! I don't know myself yet how far I will go eventually with my sharpening tools. The most important is that they work, and that they keep the edge for as long as possible. Not now, but with the next sharpening session I'll give it a try with the of my chisels I'm using most and see if it makes a difference. Can hardly imagine it, but, who knows???
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
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  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dody View Post
    Thanks John, your info is a big help in understanding for me! I don't know myself yet how far I will go eventually with my sharpening tools. The most important is that they work, and that they keep the edge for as long as possible. Not now, but with the next sharpening session I'll give it a try with the of my chisels I'm using most and see if it makes a difference. Can hardly imagine it, but, who knows???
    Dody you're sharpening aventures have inspired me to hone my favorite chisel and plane! I've recently taken to sharpening pencils with my favorite chisel!

    I was also having trouble with my chisel paring White Oak (unlike Roy Underhill) so I got out the Japanese water stone and some other stones that I got from the older gentleman whose dad was a barbershop supplier.

    Now my favorite chisel can shave hair! And white oak makes little curls when being shaved with a paring cut!

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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Thank you Denise, this is soo lovely to hear!

    Admittedly I've been at it for several days in a row and was close to wondering if everything is alright with me ! The more so, as my neighbour 3 boats further came over several times a day "oh, you are STILL at it ... I was wondering if you would come with me for a beer/coffee/swim/meal ...". My neighbour of the boat next door, passing me many times a day to get things from his workshop, gave me these strange looks. Well, he would only work with an orbital sander or an electric drill as for everything else he would hire a hand. When he was packing up Saturday evening he said "how long do you think they will stay sharp and you've got to do all this again?" Never mind, it had to be done and I hope it lasts for a bit! And, as with you, it makes such a difference in working with sharp tools !
    Last edited by Dody; 09-25-2017 at 08:50 AM.
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  15. #330
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Quote Originally Posted by Dody View Post
    Thank you Denise, this is soo lovely to hear!

    Admittedly I've been at it for several days in a row and was close to wondering if everything is alright with me ! The more so, as my neighbour 3 boats further came over several times a day "oh, you are STILL at it ... I was wondering if you would come with me for a beer/coffee/swim/meal ...". My neighbour of the boat next door, passing me many times a day to get things from his workshop, gave me these strange looks. Well, he would only work with an orbital sander or an electric drill as for everything else he would hire a hand. When he was packing up Saturday evening he said "how long do you think they will stay sharp and you've got to do all this again?" Never mind, it had to be done and I hope it lasts for a bit! And, as with you, it makes such a difference in working with sharp tools !
    The reaction of your neighbors is funny Dody. Everyone has their own standards I guess. Reminds me of a project from when I was a kid, age 12 or so. I had just gotten my first boat as a birthday present - a small flatiron skiff - and the oars it came with were unfinished. It was my first unsupervised varnishing project and I sanded those oars to a point of perfection, spending hours at it. The guys at the marina and the boat building shop next door all gave me strange looks as I sanded away, and finally the owner of the marina walked by and told me "it's just a pair of oars!" But they sure looked nice when I was done.
    - Chris

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  16. #331
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Awesome Chris, I bet they are the nicest pair of oars around anywhere (if they still exist, but it wouldn't surprise me), well done, proud of you, and I guess you were too at the time whenever you used them!

    With my neighbors, in a way I can understand them. The one 3 boats further is "boatsitting" for the owner, she doesn't know about boats or tools and would like to party the whole day. My next door neighbor never bothered about tools, as he has constantly other people working for him. The more he sees me working on Tonga, the more he is surprised what one actually can do, especially as a non-professional and a beginner. He is here since autumn 2013, him completely rebuilding his 17 m steel ketch and me Tonga. Him with changing gangs of crews working for him, me on my own. After all the steel-work was done and the dirty work finished, she got moved next to me. He's actually appreciating very much what I'm doing, but it also puzzles him sometimes - like with the sharpening tools session. Especially as the guys working for him come with sharp tools in their tool-box. Somehow I think he never wondered why and how.
    fair winds, Dody
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  17. #332
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Right, back to the subject ...

    This is the deckbeam the Mizzen-mast is resting on, bolted to a u-shaped profile, which is welded to the compression-post



    on top of that rests the maststep which is bolted to the u-profile and the deckbeam (I'm using it right now to support my tent, so don't get confused with all this stuff attached to it - this is not there normally :-D!)



    Looking to the starboard-side, the metal you can see there was the original chainplates for the lower shrouds of the mizzen-mast



    Now we go outside, this is the chainplate held by these two inventive things



    and the other side



    It has worked for more than 50 years, but I would like to change it.
    fair winds, Dody
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  18. #333
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    I went through my stock to find some timber I could use to replace the batten on top of the beamshelf. The batten needs to be a bit thicker than 2 cm and about 6 cm wide. I found some scotch fir we had cut up for planks already and turned out only to be 5.5 cm wide. My stock in the workshop was Gamballa escura, but all 4 cm thick, what a waste!!! Well, it had to be done. I selected a plank wide enough to get 3 pieces out, got it out and carried it over to the mobile table-saw of Albertino to have it cut.



    Stupid me only realized in the afternoon that this thing was bloody heavy. I didn't hurt my back, lucky me, but my shoulder and my neck, spent the night in agony and suffering the next day like hell. Today was not as bad, glad about it!

    Anyway, to speed up the process with the knees I've still got to do for the portside, I came up with a multi-template. One that has the outer as well as the inner layers in one template




    And, after cutting hanging knees yesterday, today I also made the template for the first sheet that goes on top of the deck :-D!!!! Yes, the first one for the portside! You are perfectly right, it's far too early for this, I haven't even got the batten for the beamshelf done.



    But, this sheet needs to be varnished on the underside 4 times, and all the edges need to be varnished 4 times for protection. If I do this at the same time as the hanging knees once they are epoxy-filler-glued together, I won't loose any waiting time for the varnish to dry when the batten is ready. Soo ... here we go



    The edge towards the cockpit needs to be angled as the cockpit-coaming (and inside the little deckhouse too) are leaning inwards as it should be. In this case the cut had to be 2.5 mm further outwards on the top of the line, the blade of the jigsaw angled, to get to the proper size on the bottom. I love this jigsaw! She really does what I want her to do!!! Testcut

    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
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  19. #334
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    This side cut, crosscheck



    fits pretty good, just a few adjustments needed





    And now I really have to send my thanks to Nick for having introduced me to this awesome tool:



    All the time before, even for the smallest adjustments, I would either have to carry my beltsander upstairs and make a big big dusty mess, or I would have to carry (lift with my little crane) the sheet below to do the necessary changes, and in the worst case back down and up again. Not any more, thanks to Nick!!! This sweet little low angle block plane doesn't only help me tremendously wherever smallish pieces of timber are concerned which are too small to use the electric planer, or where there is not enough space for the electric one, it even cuts plywood like a dream!!! But that is not all. I can work much more accurately and exact - guess this will even get better with time as I'm still trying it all out. And little Mr. Max loves it. It doesn't make any noises, he can watch peacefully and jump after the little curls and play with them. What more can you ask from a tool :-D?

    Oh, and I forgot: it even works when the piece you are working on is not supported properly



    And just because ... I love the shavings that are coming out there

    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
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  20. #335
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    i think your plane works so well because the owner spent the right amount of time sharpening it! it looks like you are really moving along now. what latitude are you? i guess i mean where over here can you compare it to. is it cooling off now?

    jim

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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Thanks jim !

    I'm at 39 37 N. I've just checked in OpenCPN. In USA it would be New Jersey (a bit north of Atlantic City) on the Atlantic side and California, north of San Francisco (actually a bit north of Navarro Head) on the Pacific side. I've never studied the currents and weather systems in these particular areas, but in general I tend to think the weather here will resemble more the Pacific side, at least when thinking of the usual pattern in the atmosphere. We've got 2 seasons with lots of fog, usually with the change of the seasons from summer to winter and vice versa, not a lot, but some rain from October to March, usually only a couple nights with frost at night in January, never snow and max temperatures never over 30º Celsius in summer (nights down to 19º or less), winter in daytime 11-14º C (nights 7º or less).

    Right now, as soon as the sun comes out it's still lovely & just right for shorts & flipflops with a body-warmer for when the fog comes down again (as long as one is sheltered from the wind), but around 5 pm jeans & socks have to come out.
    Last edited by Dody; 09-29-2017 at 05:02 PM.
    fair winds, Dody
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  22. #337
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    Is there someone around who could help me out here please? I got me this little plane which should be nice to get to the edges where there are obstacles on the side (don't know the name of it either)



    Now the iron is bevel up, it still needs sharpening, but the bevel has all kind of angles going from 36.6° down to 27.6°



    Should I sharpen it to 25°? Would it be the same as with my low angle block-plane, so it doesn't need the micro-bevel?

    Thanks heaps in advance!!!

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    fair winds, Dody
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  23. #338
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    It is a rebate plane and the iron should be bevel down. That wedge is upside down as well, the shape gives you something to aim at with a light hammer to knock the wedge back out. Remember you are aiming at a cutting angle of 25 degrees, bevel up makes it nearer 60 degrees. The grinding angle provided the clearance under the blade, so keep the micro bevel as small as possible. Aim for about a 30degree grind.
    It is most important to make sure that the cutting edge is square to the sides, If doing that takes the micro bevel off, try it without.
    Found this for you http://www.amgron.clara.net/page73.html
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 09-30-2017 at 12:22 PM.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Awesome, thank you very much Nick!!! Yes, I noticed this too that the bevel is not square to the sides, had the same problem on another plane and it took me quite a while till I had it in shape.
    fair winds, Dody
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Back to the "chainplate-story". I think I've worked out a solution I could happily live with and would love to hear your opinions about it. Maybe even, as it's not apparent from the title of my thread it might be necessary to open a special thread for this subject only? But, more about it later.

    Vila Real de San Antonio, Spring 2008

    It's always the same, you arrive at a new place and got to find your bearings first. Well, with bearings I mean of course the big question where you can get what, be it tools, materials or any kind of equipment. Stock, habits, availability is different everywhere, the more so when you arrive in a different country and now I had just arrived in Portugal.

    Usually your best bet is to ask the ones who've been there a while. Still no guarantee for sucess though. I remember, I think it was in Spain somewhere, walking around to find a certain shop. I must have passed the place about 7 times without finding it when I asked someone from the neighbourhood. He took me by the hand and led me through the entrance. There were no signs outside, no shopfront, you entered the living-room of a family, walked past the kitchen, and suddenly you were in Aladin's cave. They had everything my heart could dream of ...

    However. At the time I still didn't have a clue how and what went wrong with the original chainplate (a mystery that got solved the moment I took the fibreglass off, finding a galvanized sheet going all the way around the stern and the original chainplate welded to this). I had a pretty good idea now though, how a chainplate normally looks like and, whatever was wrong with the original I wanted to discard for the moment and build what I had seen elsewhere on boats.

    In a place called Conceicao, near Faro on the Algarve, some 100 K away, I found a shop selling Stainless in all shapes and qualities. They sold by the meter and payment was by weight. Good, first problem solved, materials sorted, so I started ...



    It had to follow the angle of the backstay of the mainmast, and something else had to follow the angle of the upper shroud of the mizzen.



    After having this all marked out, I found a workshop a bit to the south of Vila Real de San Antonio and was hoping they could do the bending, drilling and polishing for me. Now in Spain it happened to me several times that they wanted to do things extra-nice for me, changed my design, and came up proudly with something wonderful that unfortunately didn't serve the purpose it was intended for, so we had to do it again or alter things.
    I walked into this workshop, explained to the guy what I need and talked it all over with him. "What's your plans for 5 pm today? Could you come over and we build this together?" - great! The whole crew stayed and watched and helped - not that we needed help but it was good fun, and whenever I needed something else done I was allowed to use their tools and machinery. Needless to say the piece turned out the way I wanted it to be so I installed it.









    end of part I
    Last edited by Dody; 10-01-2017 at 06:36 PM.
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
    www.tongabonds.com

  26. #341
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    It was not about looking nice but I wanted it to work properly and not let water in the ship



    Now, surprise, surprise, it did actually work. I've sailed with it for roundabout 5.000 Miles and when I got caught out in Hurricane Bill in 2009 halfway between the Azores and the Iberian Peninsula it was on the windward side of Tonga. Nothing moved and it stayed watertight which is a good start so to speak.

    From belowdecks it looks like this (there is one bolt I initially hit some metal when installing it and, as I didn't want to pierce the hull at the time, I just left it sticking out a bit).







    As mentioned above, the original chainplate (in form of a galvanized sheet) went all around the stern of Tonga - and there are some hints visible which make me believe the same is done for the chainplates the shrouds of the mainmast amidships are attached to.

    To re-do my hull, all these galvanized sheets have to go of course. At the same time I do like the idea of spreading the forces all around the hull, which is just so much stronger.

    A while ago Rumars introduced me to composite chainplates. Chainplates which are made of carbon fibre. I don't like the idea of full carbon-fibre chainplates and prefer stainless ones similar to what I've got. As it is I can always see and inspect them which is something I find extremely important. But, I do like the idea of making them do what originally the galvanized sheets were doing, spreading the loads around the whole hull.

    The idea I'm busy working out at the moment is to laminate the carbon-fibres between the outer and middle-layer of the double-diagonal plywood-strips I'll be laminating to the outside of the hull, using the same width as the original galvi-sheet (75 cm), using woven carbon instead of unidirectional strands, and open the woven material carefully around each single bolthole before laminating them in place to keep the integrity of the carbon-cloth intact.
    Laminating it between the 2 outer layers of ply will permit me to use bolts going from the outside to the inside which I can cover with filler and the fibreglass on the outside (just in case a problem with the bolts should develop it's just a tiny thing to open it, replace the bolt and close it again). Depending of course on the thickness of the carbon-fibre I'll be able to get, or the amount of layers I install, the laminated carbon-fibre should stop any attempt of the bolts being pulled upwards.

    What's your ideas? What have I overlooked? Who has done something similar and can give me tips and hints?
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
    www.tongabonds.com

  27. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dody View Post
    It was not about looking nice but I wanted it to work properly and not let water in the ship



    Now, surprise, surprise, it did actually work. I've sailed with it for roundabout 5.000 Miles and when I got caught out in Hurricane Bill in 2009 halfway between the Azores and the Iberian Peninsula it was on the windward side of Tonga. Nothing moved and it stayed watertight which is a good start so to speak.

    From belowdecks it looks like this (there is one bolt I initially hit some metal when installing it and, as I didn't want to pierce the hull at the time, I just left it sticking out a bit).







    As mentioned above, the original chainplate (in form of a galvanized sheet) went all around the stern of Tonga - and there are some hints visible which make me believe the same is done for the chainplates the shrouds of the mainmast amidships are attached to.

    To re-do my hull, all these galvanized sheets have to go of course. At the same time I do like the idea of spreading the forces all around the hull, which is just so much stronger.

    A while ago Rumars introduced me to composite chainplates. Chainplates which are made of carbon fibre. I don't like the idea of full carbon-fibre chainplates and prefer stainless ones similar to what I've got. As it is I can always see and inspect them which is something I find extremely important. But, I do like the idea of making them do what originally the galvanized sheets were doing, spreading the loads around the whole hull.

    The idea I'm busy working out at the moment is to laminate the carbon-fibres between the outer and middle-layer of the double-diagonal plywood-strips I'll be laminating to the outside of the hull, using the same width as the original galvi-sheet (75 cm), using woven carbon instead of unidirectional strands, and open the woven material carefully around each single bolthole before laminating them in place to keep the integrity of the carbon-cloth intact.
    Laminating it between the 2 outer layers of ply will permit me to use bolts going from the outside to the inside which I can cover with filler and the fibreglass on the outside (just in case a problem with the bolts should develop it's just a tiny thing to open it, replace the bolt and close it again). Depending of course on the thickness of the carbon-fibre I'll be able to get, or the amount of layers I install, the laminated carbon-fibre should stop any attempt of the bolts being pulled upwards.

    What's your ideas? What have I overlooked? Who has done something similar and can give me tips and hints?
    Dody I don't know if you would like my idea, but many old wooden boats (even fiberglass) have the chain plates outside the hull and are through bolted. I think it looks great but most people hate seeing them on the outside it certainly would solve a lot, of problems.

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  28. #343
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    You certainly have a big project on your hands Dody. I admire your willingness to dive in!
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  29. #344
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Quote Originally Posted by Dody View Post
    Awesome, thank you very much Nick!!! Yes, I noticed this too that the bevel is not square to the sides, had the same problem on another plane and it took me quite a while till I had it in shape.
    The issue of square is vital for rebate and shoulder planes, but less so with bench and block planes as you can adjust the blade in the plane. So for bench and block planes you do not need to be so precious.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  30. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    The issue of square is vital for rebate and shoulder planes, but less so with bench and block planes as you can adjust the blade in the plane. So for bench and block planes you do not need to be so precious.
    I have the same problem, keeping the edge square on my Stanley #93

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  31. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Dody I don't know if you would like my idea, but many old wooden boats (even fiberglass) have the chain plates outside the hull and are through bolted. I think it looks great but most people hate seeing them on the outside it certainly would solve a lot, of problems.

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ide-or-outside.

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  32. #347
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    You certainly have a big project on your hands Dody. I admire your willingness to dive in!
    Thank you Jim!
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
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  33. #348
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Thank you Nick, you don't know how much it helps me to start understanding these things more and more!
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
    www.tongabonds.com

  34. #349
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Dody I don't know if you would like my idea, but many old wooden boats (even fiberglass) have the chain plates outside the hull and are through bolted. I think it looks great but most people hate seeing them on the outside it certainly would solve a lot, of problems.

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Thank you Denise, and thanks for the link!

    Exterior chainplates are reliable, easy to maintain, strong, simple and have worked for hundreds of years. All these characteristics I appreciate very much, and in the beginning of the process I was wondering to install them outside.

    There is a few things that made me discard this idea.

    To start with, Tonga is a wooden boat only on the inside, then there will be 3 layers of 6 mm ply and then probably 4 of fibreglass cloth with Epoxy. To get a bolt coming from the outboard comrade's side of the hull really watertight is next to impossible. This is not a real problem with a wooden boat as long as it's saltwater. But it will become a very big problem as soon as plywood is involved.

    Another major reason that made me discard this idea is the fact that something sticks out of my hull, something I might and will get caught on - what can go wrong will go wrong. It's not as big a problem as long as one sticks with Marinas and floating pontoons. But if one prefers exploring, one more often then not is docking in fishing and commercial ports alongside sometimes very rough boats or quay walls, with tides, wash and so on. It's less of a danger if your ship is really big and heavy, coz then you just destroy what might be in the way. But Tonga is only 22 Tons which ends up with me getting into trouble to sort things out. It still might be less of a problem when you've got 10 people or so on the deck to sort things out. But under normal circumstances there is only me, so better keep it as simple and troublefree as possible to begin with.
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
    www.tongabonds.com

  35. #350
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    Default Re: Wood - Plywood - Epoxy bond, re-building my ketch Tonga

    Quote Originally Posted by Dody View Post
    To start with, Tonga is a wooden boat only on the inside, then there will be 3 layers of 6 mm ply and then probably 4 of fibreglass cloth with Epoxy. To get a bolt coming from the outboard comrade's side of the hull really watertight is next to impossible. This is not a real problem with a wooden boat as long as it's saltwater. But it will become a very big problem as soon as plywood is involved.
    Wherever you put them you need to bolt them to the side shell to feed the loads into the structure.
    The only other way would be to fit and glue a frame futtock in line with the tension load to the inside of the hull, butted up against the beam shelf. Then bolt the chain plate through it with the bolts running ford and aft.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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