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Thread: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Hi, my name is Andre Elvas, i have few experience with boat building, my first one was a Hannu Vartiala 12 ft skiff, but now intending to go bigger, but understanding my financial limitations.

    I was dreaming about making a catamaran for travaling with my wife and 7 months child, by the way i am 32 years old, i am a webdesigner, programmer, surfer, spearfisher, diver, etc. and a vessel is a dream. but in Brazil it is like a milionaire stuff to have.

    I think different, i think we can go high if we adjust our spectations.

    I wanted to make the Eco 6.6. , but the plans from Mr Kohler were still expensive, although i must say they are really a fair to low price, due to the design quality.

    I talked with Cabinho crew also, Roberto Yatch, to make the Pop 20... butttttt....

    I studied and discovered the Sztrandek family from Mrs Wojtek Kasprzak, looking into Pilgrim 590.

    I would love to make the 6.5, buttttt....

    I have no money! This week i sold my tenor saxophone, and now i have some to start the hull. Yeah, things are not easy for a designer in small cities in Brazil. jajaja


    The project, as far as i researched have not been developed by nobody.... got little scared asking why nobody built this one, with so many sztrandek.... is it becouse there are no CAD files?

    I really dont know! Its the same size as the other strandek, but the theorical lines were completely changed. So as i live ina beach city, called Serra Grande a district from Uruçuca, Bahia, Brazil. Tropical paradise close to near coastal islands.

    I think the 495 DR its brave, and fits into my pocket projections of costs.


    I would love to say thanks for Kadir Haldenbilen wich has created a plataform wich you put boat ribs values, and it generates a svg, wich i stole from the web and made myself with my design programs the 1:1 scale with all the ribs. Gained loads of time, naot havind to do it by hand on a plywood as a Base plywood for building all the boat ribs structure.

    This is my fisrt post here, i am talking so much , becouse i have no experience in making the mast, and loads of doubts in doing rudders, balast, etc. and i think there are many sailors with so many experience able to share and solve some questions that sometimes make you think twice about building a boat.


    I think i will make it. Here are some sample shots from the begining.


    If there is anyone interested in the original files, or anything related to this. Just mail me.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2

    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Hello Andre,
    I am John in Shoreline, Washington. Hope you don't mind but I will be watching, hope You post lots of pictures. I love to see how people in other countries deal with all the problems of boatbuilding. I don't know anything about the boat you want to build, is it popular in Brazil, and is that You behind the plywood?
    ShorelineJohn

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Andre, you are going to run into many problems in trying to build that design on a low budget and without metal working facilities.... for a start the hull shows no form stability and no doubt will need a bolt-on fin keel of sorts. Your catamaran idea has merit re form stability and I have at least heard of a person in your part of the world, who succeeded in building, sailing and living on a cat (a Wharram Tiki21) -- he was in the Bahia area some years ago with his wife and child, acommodated aboard with the help of a deck tent. Sure, the Kohler design Eco has a bridge-deck cabin, so is an improvement in the way of liveaboard facility, but which adds to cost. Chasing the dream without heaps of money is comendable,just keep on looking for proven ways to do it. Joshua Slocum did well building the Liberdade on a beach in Brazil.

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Quote Originally Posted by ShorelineJohn View Post
    Hello Andre,
    I am John in Shoreline, Washington. Hope you don't mind but I will be watching, hope You post lots of pictures. I love to see how people in other countries deal with all the problems of boatbuilding. I don't know anything about the boat you want to build, is it popular in Brazil, and is that You behind the plywood?
    ShorelineJohn

    Hi John! Amazing to hear from you.

    Answering some questions, no this boat is not popular in Brazil, although, the first Sztrandek was built in Brazil, and than Wojtek projected the Sztrandus -4 meter vessel- wich was built in Minessota EUA, by a 75 old fella; this was his 30 boat building. SO i felt really confident, if someone with such experience chose a similar design due to its functionalities and expectations attendence.

    And yeah, that is me behind the plywood! With huge messy hair!

    I will develop a website called www.bodiao.com , soon it will be avaiable, by now i only have an instagram page called @projetobodiao

    .

    Thanks for your words, keep waching, becouse i will be building!

    Best regards,

    ANdre

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Yeah, i already know its hard to work with aluminium, inoxidable metals without money....or with little money....

    About the hull, i did not get it. I think it was a great design with compliments and realizations all around the world. And yes, the keel, if you take a look at the project; http://www.geneboat.cba.pl/s495dr/sztrandr.html ; there is a 360 kg fin attached to the bottom. I think it will hold on in some stability. And i imagine that there are bore 90KG to be put on the bottom of the intern hull, right over the hull attachment.

    I chose this boat, because at has the size that fits my porpouse, and i chose those lines, because is the only little sztrandek of the family made for handling better the waves.

    The catamaran i cited, was only for curiosity. Love Ben Kohler project, as Cabinho, Roberto Barros, as well, but for someone withot the "heaps of money"... its easiaer to star with a free amazing boat plan. By the way, the Finland and Polish guys are to be respected, they spread the nautical culture in a way i ahve never seen. This is cool.

    So.

    I made a cost projection for the Hull, them divided in Equipments and them in Sail, and mast, SO there are like 3 fases.

    The fase 1 is Ok.

    The 2 and 3 will be launched in a croudfunding plataform. Just get little help, and to manke things faster. If it does not take off, i will have to keep working my ass out as a designer here.

    But i can assure you, i won t abandon this project.

    About the TIKIS, there are bunch of those here in Brazil, and in Bahia also, amazing you to bring this up!

    Thanks for your time, attention, hope to hear from you.

    Best regasrds!

    Andre, the broke builder! jajaja

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Hi Andre, and congratulations on your determination.

    I am also an admirer of polish designers, because they found ways to make amateur boatbuilding affordable. My favorite polish designer is Janus Maderski, because he has a very wide range of sailboat designs, all optimised for amateur builders.

    I like the design you chosed, many years ago I dreamed of such a small seaworthy sailboat. But I think it has some shortcomings for your intended use.
    - Even if it has a decent displacement for some offshore use, my guess is it will have an unpleasant roll movement, because of it's small waterline beam.
    - Because of the strong stern rocker, short waterline and big displacement, the speed will be smaller than expected from such a boat.

    These shortcomings are natural on such a small boat, and a seasoned sailor can live with them and enjoy the boat to it's full potential . But you must ask yourself if your wife and kid will feel good on the boat in the middle of a choppy sea. For them a small catamaran would be a better choice.

    Anyway, if you made up your mind on Sztrandek Dr, I wish you the same enthusiasm during the build that you have now. I will follow your story, and if I can, I will be glad to share some of my experience with you. I suppose it is forbidden to publish on this forum the details of your crowdfunding action, but I would be happy to contribute with a small amount to your efforts. Good luck and I wish we will see you on the water .

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Ahoy!

    Thanks a lot for your words. Like to hear about them.

    The family is in rootz mode, they will handle. Otherwise, our intentions are to enjoy brazilian Bahia summer, there are no waves, breeze days, sunny ones. I think if we plan, check weather waves and stuff, we can enjoy our beachs and coral banks (with a lot of care becouse the fin is fixed)...spend about 3 months sailing, stoping, camping on desert beaches, etc. Take a look at Serra Grande, Ilheus, Bahia. Where we live.

    So, the website is on www.bodiao.com.br (catarse.me/bodiao - crowdfunding) and there are info for crowdfunding and stuff. I am posting some texts about issues that upcomes during the construction.

    Loads of technical doubts, i only have doubts to offer, ...not only, but at most. lol. And some thougths about age and construction, about money issues on building boat, about the choice of this model and other things that are coming....some economic, cultural, historic thinking about , boats, hidrolife, and where we live...

    So,

    Started to mount the table. Made some ribs, and now its getting on shape.

    I will put a link of a stop motion we did.

    -

    Your comments are really valid. Now that its getting its shape, i can see it as a FIN boat. Its form looks edgy on the bottom. I expect it to be feraless in chop ocnditionss. I aim at a catamran more in the future. By now i think i can barely afford to build this guy. But loads of passion runing trough my mind and heart now. Fullfilling this dream. Building it day by day its such a sensation!

    Hope to hear from you and others looking for the success of the BODIAO sailing vessel.

    I did not know the Janus Maderski , i will sure look into him!

    Ps.:

    The video oh the construction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3fEiGNhusk
    Last edited by andrelvas; 08-22-2020 at 06:11 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Kind of surprised that you did not consider a Wharram. Two families from here built one and emigrated from England to Australia in it. Easy to build out of cheap (ish) materials and very capable.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Ops Sir!

    Yeah, i have been looking the Waham plans. But they are not free, and for me, not cheap. With the money of the plan, i can build loads, at least buy some plywood, some screws, etc.

    In Brazil the have been building loads of TIKIS from Mr Waham. Just did not fit into my intentions. Otherwise, i would rather Ben Kohler style of thinking catamaran (the ones that interested me at first.)

    Thanks for the comment and passing by!

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil


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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Quote Originally Posted by andrelvas View Post
    Ops Sir!

    Yeah, i have been looking the Waham plans. But they are not free, and for me, not cheap. With the money of the plan, i can build loads, at least buy some plywood, some screws, etc.

    In Brazil the have been building loads of TIKIS from Mr Waham. Just did not fit into my intentions. Otherwise, i would rather Ben Kohler style of thinking catamaran (the ones that interested me at first.)

    Thanks for the comment and passing by!
    Pic above shows clearly how your plan, or rather the dream, unfolds. Piece by piece you obviously see the hull taking shape, then you will/theoretically sheath the plywood skin and have your boat. Problem starts when you turn it over and are committed to sealing the inside and preventing decay when fresh water gets inside.Maybe you are thinking that the inside can be sealed with epoxy, but this is only going to be the start of spending that is inevitably a case of throwing good money after bad. No matter how well you seal the plywood, the boat is not going to float without bolting on that ballast keel when it is decked over. Better to start building the ballast keel first and then proceed building the hull and deck onto it. Wood is available to you (as shown in your frame structure), so if you are going to find epoxy affordable for sheathing a plywood skin, you might as well cut all available wood into strips and get going on building a strip hull onto a ferro-concrete keel. This way you have chance of ending up with a boat having shallow enough draught to make good use of the water world out into the Atlantic and on up the coast. Having only 3ft of draught sure was good to have over the sand bars off Arracati.

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Hi, dont know if i got what you said. But i think i will probably finish the hull, and them screw, as the plans shows.The hull wil be laminated in the 2 sides, inside also, with fiberglass and resin, just a nice cover to make it stronger, and offcourse try to better protect the inside structure. The fin , balast, you are suggesting is made of concret, and iron peaces? Is this it? Can you explain better. Have u take a look at the project? I would apreciate further comments.

    Thanks anyway for passing by and writing the mesage!

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    There we go!

    Some evolutions can be found on the bodiao.com.br webpage. I developed putting all phases of construction.


    Some doubts are decided, and wanted to share:

    1 - The ballast is going to be made in a plywood, pinus pre molded shape i will make, and fullfill with concret inside the form, i will put some iron structures and the main screws (iron bars) that will be passing trhoughth the boat to fix with the longarin.

    2- The mast will be done in wood, 7,5m with 9 x 7 cm cant be so heavy. and the inside structure, i will use wood, cause here in Bahia, Brasil i have loads of great specimens that are hard as iron, flexible and strong, as BERIBA, MASSANDUBA (not so flexible), CUMARU (Strong as hell), PEQUI AMARELO....
    --


    Buuuttt,

    I am so far away...


    Started buildin in the post date, and now, i have put all the plywood over the boat.

    Here some pics of the process.\\


    andrelvas_2020_09_01_2138.jpg

    andrelvas_2020_09_01_2144.jpg

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Fisnishing the hull, and now up to build a kell in ferro concrete as u sugested. Inside i will finish in poliester and fiber glass, its cheaper, and i have here like 44 kg of it!

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil


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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    What wood did you use for the chines and hog/keel? Good progress.

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    The plywood is know in Brazil as VIROLA, i dido not found 8mm, i just found 10 mm plus... very hard to bend, but it worked.

    The chines strings i had screwed the plywood, its knows as PEQUI AMARELO, also knows as MIRINDIBA, its a waterproof wood from rainforest. Very strong, flexible, and has some duration time. I think they are the main squelekton of the boat, so i had made them look good in the inside also, they are gorgeous after some sanding. I am thinking about resinging the inside with transparent, to let the chine string aparent and the virola wood also, the boat will look like a wood mobile. jajaja

    The Hog, and SKEG are made also of PEQUI AMARELO. And the longarin (boat maisn stringer) are made of CEDRO.

    Now i am fairing and loading wood flour and epoxi on the joints/chines of the sntrings +plywood.

    Hope i have been understandable!
    Best regards

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Welcome to the forum Andre and wishing you well with your build.

    Not wanting to dampen your enthusiasm in any way, but is the Virola the standard Virola ply for interior use or do you have a marine grade Virola ply in Brazil? My understanding of Virola plywood is that it is an interior use low grade ply for things like cabinet backs, drawer bases and so on and not durable enough for boat building.

    Either way, enjoy the build mate, I look forward to watching your progress and completion.
    Larks

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    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Yeap, they were done with an special glue, custom order. Unfortunetly the suplier could not do the 8mm. I would rather. There are 3 types of virola plywoods here in Brazil.

    I hope they last long enought for me to finish the boat. May i ask you, if the plywood is surrounded by epoxi, fiber glass , painting and loads of components, do you think the plywood, that is suposed to be protected from water contact, is liable to vanish inside the boat? If so, what happens with a plywood inside this layers? will the fiberglass and the strings and mais strings vaninsh also? Or do you think it lasts at least...hummm 50...80 years? If well taken care?

    Waiting your thoughts about it.

    See ya, and thanks for the wellcoming!

    Best Regards,

    ANdre Elvas

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    That’s an argument that many new boat builders use - “if it’s well coated and sealed why wouldn’t it last?” But if your custom order means that it is a marine grade ply with marine grade glue and you are glassing it well all around then you shouldn’t expect to have any problems.

    Any number of guys on the forum here might chime in about their experiences with rotten or delaminated ply from their own experiences from second hand boats or even their own builds, even with marine grade plywood. But use of cheap interior grade plywood has probably been the biggest reason for a short boat life in plywood constructed boats.

    The problem lies mostly with the glue not holding and the ply delaminating if it is not a marine grade glue, particularly at the ends or joins of any ply if it is not very well sealed and protected or at any place where the hull might take a bump or worse and the epoxy layer is cracked or otherwise compromised. Moisture gets in and is trapped and the glue delaminates quickly - even with marine grade ply if moisture gets in and is trapped the ply rots from the inside out.

    Most
    epoxies when well applied will give you a good or at least a reasonable level of water proofing but not all epoxies are created equal and I have seen plenty of boats where moisture has penetrated the epoxy, either because of poor application or inferior quality epoxy. Poor application can be considered anything from the surface not being properly prepared or dry, the mix ratio not being accurate, climate the time of application, drying time, the re-coating process....the list goes on.

    Either way, have fun with the build Andre, you’ll learn a lot and it looks like you will have a nice fun boat at the end of the build.

    Do you plan to keep it on a trailer after it’s finished?
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Stop right now with the idea of finishing with epoxy/glass over that patchy plywood shape, unless you have a lot of money that you wish to waste. Sheathing inside and outside, then filling sanding/fairing and painting is going to take more time and effort than you can even imagine, otherwise it will end up so heavy that you will be lucky to have the slightest stability.Definitely a bolt-on ferro concrete fin keel is not going to help with achieving a CG ( centre of gravity) that you need.Saving your frame structure by chamfering the edges to take carvel planking might be the better option at this stage. At least you then have a chance of fitting a steel or lead fin keel to salvage the project. Starting with a ferro keel, means you need to have a completely different design.

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugalong View Post
    Stop right now with the idea of finishing with epoxy/glass over that patchy plywood shape, unless you have a lot of money that you wish to waste. Sheathing inside and outside, then filling sanding/fairing and painting is going to take more time and effort than you can even imagine, otherwise it will end up so heavy that you will be lucky to have the slightest stability.Definitely a bolt-on ferro concrete fin keel is not going to help with achieving a CG ( centre of gravity) that you need.Saving your frame structure by chamfering the edges to take carvel planking might be the better option at this stage. At least you then have a chance of fitting a steel or lead fin keel to salvage the project. Starting with a ferro keel, means you need to have a completely different design.
    It only takes a light layer of cloth on the outside and the inside does not need sheathing, but a minimum of 3 layers of resin if he wants to "encapsulate" the ply. I would agree with the previous comment that if the glueline is not waterproof, then its only ply i would use in a short lived boat. The ferro keel can be slightly enlarged, especially in thickness to make up any weight to match a steel keel. Carvel planking is going to need a completely different framing system, adding more weight and hence to your final comment "you may need to have a completely different design". I do not see anything being suggested, that many have already successfully achieved, but i agree weights need to be kept an eye on. An overweight mast would be a bigger detriment to stability than some extra hull sheathing.

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Quote Originally Posted by Flobart View Post
    It only takes a light layer of cloth on the outside and the inside does not need sheathing, but a minimum of 3 layers of resin if he wants to "encapsulate" the ply. I would agree with the previous comment that if the glueline is not waterproof, then its only ply i would use in a short lived boat. The ferro keel can be slightly enlarged, especially in thickness to make up any weight to match a steel keel. Carvel planking is going to need a completely different framing system, adding more weight and hence to your final comment "you may need to have a completely different design". I do not see anything being suggested, that many have already successfully achieved, but i agree weights need to be kept an eye on. An overweight mast would be a bigger detriment to stability than some extra hull sheathing.
    Sure, if a deep draught keeler, having a really fat concrete keel fin that has bilges susceptible to rot is what you are encouraging, then fine, go ahead.
    Painting the bilges with heaps of epoxy is not going to be a cure-all for design that has plywood end grain in all sorts of places where checking is going to occur. Instead, the 10mm ply (if in fact it is resorcinol glued) would make a a couple of fine fine V bottom canoe hulls, sheathed inside and out with epoxy glass. These would be quicker, lighter and cheaper to build than any patchwork covering of framework structure hull. They would cost a lot less to rig and power, along with having improved family accomodation over a heavy tub of a boat.... if the Polynesian configuration of a shunter Pahi is followed, rather than any catamaran design.Pics showing what I am talking about are to be posted on this forum within days.

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    I, for one, am enjoying your work and enthusiasm for this project, Andre. I trust your cost estimates are close enough to bring the boat to completion. And I say this as one who would have built a Wharram myself for the sailing plans you describe. But to each his own. Carry on and please keep us posted.
    -Dave

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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Hi Larks,
    First of all thank you for stopping by. A
    s for the quality of Brazilian naval plywood, I honestly don't know what to say. Here they sell many things that are not what they claim to be. I honestly don't think it's glue in the plywood. I sent an email with photos to the manufacturer questioning their quality. Anyway, I think about the main issue of waterproofing.

    Doing most of all the hull lamination well, and I think of doing it with two hands of fiberglass and epoxy, in addition to the joints that I decided to apply to the plywood, plus the joints made with wood and epoxy powder. I made a combination of some techniques that I learned by making a smaller boat, and I believe that the powder with epoxy, plus the reinforcements in addition to the resin layers with fiber, more primer and pu paint, will make a good hull. I hope so. At the moment financial issues are tying the project. I have little money, but I believe that creative solutions like a wooden mast, we have excellent woods here and the mast is 7.5m, which is not much ... and the iron and cement keel with steel bars to tie the keel by inside the stringers.

    The website's processes can be followed by bodiao.com.br, a website I created to spread knowledge of amateur construction in Brazil, and also to ask for support from the nautical community in Brazil.

    Despite a lot of history, culture and tradition, coming from the Luysitans who colonized here, together with the construction of indigenous canoes, they generated a very nice nautical wealth, but unfortunately forgotten. But that is for another topic.

    Thankful for the words. I will take care of the laminating with care.

    Ps .: The boat goes to the sea, but I intend that when the days are over, keep it in your cart dry.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Hir sir,

    Sorry, I don't know if I understood. You suggest not to laminate with epoxy. Or really abandon the project due to poor execution, or lavor with the plywood? Laughs. I apologize for the imperfections. I filled the meetings with saw dust and epoxy, and the intention was to sand the Chinese, leaving them with a better finish and putting reinforcements with a blanket over the joints, trying to soften the hardness of the curves. The ferro-concrete + more steel bars to be able to attach to the stringers, (don't you think that the 3 woods indicated in the project as central stringer will hold the keel structure suggested, also in the project, of 360 kg?)

    I didn't understand what you said that could save the project "chamfering the edges ...."? Could you talk more about the topic? Do you have an example? Finally I thought about laminating the interior with a layer of paraffin in polystyrene resin, as they do in surfboards, a lamination that makes it resistant and even waterproofs and makes the interior more pleasant (optional to add pigments to make the interior white!) I confess that when I started reading I already thought about abandoning the project and everything, not least because the money I started was small and was painstaking to start the construction of the boat.

    Anyway, grateful for the time and interest! Best Regards

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Serra Grande, Bahia, Brazil
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    I, for one, am enjoying your work and enthusiasm for this project, Andre. I trust your cost estimates are close enough to bring the boat to completion. And I say this as one who would have built a Wharram myself for the sailing plans you describe. But to each his own. Carry on and please keep us posted.

    Hi Dave, I see good news.
    So, we are building, despite the beginning in August, I’m almost there in the lamination process. I just finished filling in the edges of the boat and the game continues.

    Although the budget is not very comfortable, Brazil's political moment and my professional choice as a designer and art director, laughs ... But we continue with faith and cherishing actions and sweat. Grateful for the time and words.

    Soon, I hope to put it in the sea, and that unlike some theories, it floats and navigates well. Let's go.

    Strong hug.

    Andre

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
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    Serra Grande, Bahia, Brazil
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Quote Originally Posted by Flobart View Post
    It only takes a light layer of cloth on the outside and the inside does not need sheathing, but a minimum of 3 layers of resin if he wants to "encapsulate" the ply. I would agree with the previous comment that if the glueline is not waterproof, then its only ply i would use in a short lived boat. The ferro keel can be slightly enlarged, especially in thickness to make up any weight to match a steel keel. Carvel planking is going to need a completely different framing system, adding more weight and hence to your final comment "you may need to have a completely different design". I do not see anything being suggested, that many have already successfully achieved, but i agree weights need to be kept an eye on. An overweight mast would be a bigger detriment to stability than some extra hull sheathing.
    Thanks for passing by,

    The project assumes the use of 360 KG for a 7.5 aluminum mast. I wanted to make the mast out of wood, but I believe it will not weigh so much to impair the stability of the boat. I ask, how much do you think you should raise the keel? It could extend / stretch longitudinally, bringing it a little more to the previous cave and thus make the front more prominent, so the boat is not susceptible to embark from the bow. It's just thoughts. If you can look at the plans calmly, I'd appreciate it. Do you have links to the projects on my website bodiao.com.br or send an email !? I don't know how to use all the forum tools yet.

    Anyway,
    Thank you very much.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wongawallan Oz
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    15,867

    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Good on you Andre for having a go and for your positive and encouraging attitude, I hope you find a lot of support there in Brazil and I hope to see that this forum offers you good and positive support through the build.

    In regards to ensuring that all of your ply edges are well sealed against moisture, the other places to be very mindful of sealing is wherever you have fastenings through the ply and wherever you have a hole cut into the ply for any fittings. Just be sure to remember to seal the edges of anything like that or anywhere that the ends, holes or cuts in the ply are exposed.

    I understand that money is an issue so you can only do what you can do with what you have, either way I am sure you will have great fun in the process and will learn immensely from the experience and that is as valuable, if not more so, than the finished boat itself.

    One of the nice benefits of a plywood construction is that it can be easily fixed later on if you do have damage somewhere down the track, so have fun mate and keep us updated with photos.

    Very best wishes with your build
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    69

    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Quote Originally Posted by andrelvas View Post
    Thanks for passing by,

    The project assumes the use of 360 KG for a 7.5 aluminum mast. I wanted to make the mast out of wood, but I believe it will not weigh so much to impair the stability of the boat. I ask, how much do you think you should raise the keel? It could extend / stretch longitudinally, bringing it a little more to the previous cave and thus make the front more prominent, so the boat is not susceptible to embark from the bow. It's just thoughts. If you can look at the plans calmly, I'd appreciate it. Do you have links to the projects on my website bodiao.com.br or send an email !? I don't know how to use all the forum tools yet.

    Anyway,
    Thank you very much.
    I have those drawings downloaded on another system some years ago. Depending on how much steel framework, or re-bar you use to construct the main backbone, it it hard to say how much bigger the keel should be to match the same weight as the steel version. It looks like the drawings show 2 keel types, a hollow steel box and a version using solid lead? The density of the keel will depend on its additional steel content. I can dig out some drawings of some ferro keels, do you want me to post them here, or rather email them?
    A wooden mast, can be made up in a few different ways, and much depends on how much weight you may want to save, and the wood that you have to use. Plywood sided box spares are light and stiff, but if there is any doubt about your plywood quality, maybe build up a mast from 3-4 layers of flat boards. Hollow birdsmouth requires a good table saw and will use a lot of epoxy, some people are happy with the extra expense and time to save a few pounds/kgs in weight, and some others will just de-bark a tree.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Whangarei New Zealand
    Posts
    853

    Default Re: Building a SZTRANDEK 495 DR in South Bahia, Brazil

    Quote Originally Posted by andrelvas View Post
    Hir sir,

    Sorry, I don't know if I understood. You suggest not to laminate with epoxy. Or really abandon the project due to poor execution, or lavor with the plywood? Laughs. I apologize for the imperfections. I filled the meetings with saw dust and epoxy, and the intention was to sand the Chinese, leaving them with a better finish and putting reinforcements with a blanket over the joints, trying to soften the hardness of the curves. The ferro-concrete + more steel bars to be able to attach to the stringers, (don't you think that the 3 woods indicated in the project as central stringer will hold the keel structure suggested, also in the project, of 360 kg?)

    I didn't understand what you said that could save the project "chamfering the edges ...."? Could you talk more about the topic? Do you have an example? Finally I thought about laminating the interior with a layer of paraffin in polystyrene resin, as they do in surfboards, a lamination that makes it resistant and even waterproofs and makes the interior more pleasant (optional to add pigments to make the interior white!) I confess that when I started reading I already thought about abandoning the project and everything, not least because the money I started was small and was painstaking to start the construction of the boat.

    Anyway, grateful for the time and interest! Best Regards
    Hi Andre, my worry is that sealing the outside with epoxy sheathing will create a moisture trap inside, by hoping that painting some inferior substance like wax/finish-coat polyester will do the job. Do it properly with with an epoxy saturated glass fabric and your good work will stand completed for longer, but it is going to cost you in time and money.
    Lengthening the keel to gain mass is of course a sensible option, although, it will still need to be bolted on securely, through substantial floor members inside the hull.
    Boil testing your plywood will show if the glue is up to standard - have you put cut pieces into a pot and boiled them for a few hours, then let them stand soaking for days ?

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