Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

[Rich Jones]

The vast amount of natural light in your shop will be invaluable when it comes time for fairing the hull. There's nothing like natural daylight to point out all our flaws.

[Tokamecotom]

Don - feel free to use any of the photo's I have posted to the forum and let me know if you have any special requests.

[Don Scott]

Tom, many thanks for allowing use of your photographs and to start with I think the 'sharp end' view, below, is a good start just to show the simple, clean and streamlined shape of the hull.
One question here : I can figure out all the fittings on the foredeck except for the extra pulley block. The two side by side will be for the sail and the gaff halliards but what is the third one for...just forward of those two?

Lorelei 19.jpgLorelei 19 - Copy.jpg

[Ben Fuller]

Extra block for topping lift or for a gaff downhaul which I rigged when I had a catboat and handled the halyards from the cockpit.

[Don Scott]

Thanks for that info, Ben, and showing me yet another way to spell halyards. Yours is the correct way of course but, I would just like to cite Mark Twain who once said that it was an unimaginative man who could not find at least two ways of spelling a word. I rest my case.

[Peerie Maa]

Thanks for that info, Ben, and showing me yet another way to spell halyards. Yours is the correct way of course but, I would just like to cite Mark Twain who once said that it was an unimaginative man who could not find at least two ways of spelling a word. I rest my case.

I hear what you say, but what is this "iard" in your you hall?

[Daniel Noyes]

Tom, many thanks for allowing use of your photographs and to start with I think the 'sharp end' view, below, is a good start just to show the simple, clean and streamlined shape of the hull.
One question here : I can figure out all the fittings on the foredeck except for the extra pulley block. The two side by side will be for the sail and the gaff halliards but what is the third one for...just forward of those two?

Thanks for that info, Ben, and showing me yet another way to spell halyards. Yours is the correct way of course but, I would just like to cite Mark Twain who once said that it was an unimaginative man who could not find at least two ways of spelling a word. I rest my case.

just another correction, may be nit picking, but the two blocks are both "gaff halliards" one for the throat and one for the peak, there is no "sail halliard" as such as the sail is laced to the gaff and the gaff raises the sail.


what I want to know is what is the gigantic eye and ring for near the bow...? mooring line? can you imagine scrambling out along that deck to get a mooring in a little choppy sea?!

[Breakaway]

what I want to know is what is the gigantic eye and ring for near the bow...?

Forestay?

Kevin

[Tokamecotom]

That's a sweet model, Don! This is the first time I've seen the lines and offsets for a Gil Smith boat, that's classified information over at the Museum. There must be a leak, someone in the Penny Baotshop, maybe.

I think this might be Lorelei, but I'm not sure. I'll have a look around and see what else I've got.


Watching with interest!


Jim

Hi Jim, Don,

I want to provide some background information on Smith and the collection. I got this second hand and believe It to be true. Al Terry, who pasted a few years ago, was big Smith fan. He had several of his boats and helped the museum with their collection as a trustee. Somehow he was able to get the Smithsonian Museum - Library of Congress to provide assistance to document several examples of Gil Smith boats. Smith always worked from half models and by eye so they took measurements and developed a table of offsets and line drawing for Lorelei, Pauline (a plumb stem cat) and Kid (a P class sloop).

Back in 2003 The Smithsonian also provided he Museum with a grant to build a replica of a plum stem Gil Smith Catboat. The hull was started in the winter of 2003 2004 and was it brought down to display in D.C. During a summer festival on Museum grounds. The lofting for this boat as well as the patterns and jigs are in the Penney boat shop. I have have been able to sail this boat a number of times and she is fast and nimble.

please excuse any typos as I am doing this on my phone.

Tom

[Don Scott]

Tom, Could you also add something about the Lorelei history? I can't locate the text I saved last year but seem to remember that she did not get her bottom wet very often.

You will note that I have not said anything about the rear end on this boat so far. I gave up trying to include the dummy transom as I can't get round the back. All I have done is set
two blocks at the right angle for when I do make an attempt at fitting it. This photo gives some idea of things but you will have to bear with me until I get my head around it.

026.jpg

[Daniel Noyes]

Forestay?

Kevin

the bolt and ring would not be a good way to anchor a forestay, I think we're seeing the forestay tang just ahead of that eye bolt and just behind the stem head, edge on so it's tough to tell.

[Tokamecotom]

[QUOTE=Daniel Noyes;5271811]the bolt and ring would not be a good way to anchor a forestay, I think we're seeing the forestay tang just ahead of that eye bolt and just behind the stem head, edge on so it's tough to tell.[/QUOTE

Exactly, the ring is for mooring or a dock line. Notice the bronze strips on the toerail.
[IMG][/IMG]

[Rich Jones]

While not the Lorelei, this is the boat just to the side of it that I photographed. It has the same mooring ring and the forestay tang that Daniel pointed out, just seen from a better angle.

[Tokamecotom]

While not the Lorelei, this is the boat just to the side of it that I photographed. It has the same mooring ring and the forestay tang that Daniel pointed out, just seen from a better angle.

Yes, that is Joy, another BB class Gil Smith built a few years earlier than Lorelei.

[johnw]

Have you checked in with the Wooden Boatworks http://woodenboatworks.com/index.php/boats/custom run by Don Costanzo. He was one o the principals in the 1997 build of MADIGAN and has built a number of Gil Smith replicas. I think plans for MADIGAN were drawn by Dave Dillon and are now in the ships plans collection of Mystic Seaport.

We built a replica of one of the other Gil Smith cats based on one we had in the collection when I was at Mystic, I'll be down there this coming weekend and will see if I can get a photo of the keel structure.

The interesting part of the Gil Smith boat is that the centerboard drops through the massive keel/ skeg structure which is the boat's real backbone. I would expect to see all of that as a long beam with a slot in it.

The support or lack of support of centerboards has come up on the UNA thread. We see a number of unsupported trunks on these old boats. I've been thinking about this and wonder whether some of it has to do with the fact that these old boards were mostly designed so that the aft corner of the board stayed in the trunk. And lots of these boats had heathy ledges for the trunk which may have been taking the load. Certainly we see this in some of the pie shaped trunks and boards.

I wonder if some were supported by floors, like the centerboard version of the Rhodes 19. Those would be hidden by the floorboards in any pictures of the boats.

[Peerie Maa]

I wonder if some were supported by floors, like the centerboard version of the Rhodes 19. Those would be hidden by the floorboards in any pictures of the boats.

Could be, but as Ben said, that chunky keel, the skeg, and I dare-say the head-ledges tying the upper case to the skeg make for a very strong structure. It is not a case of the CB twisting the case off of its bed logs, but of the skeg twisting that flat bottom off of the keel.

[johnw]

Could be, but as Ben said, that chunky keel, the skeg, and I dare-say the head-ledges tying the upper case to the skeg make for a very strong structure. It is not a case of the CB twisting the case off of its bed logs, but of the skeg twisting that flat bottom off of the keel.

Seems like the joint between the bed logs and the keel is the usual problem.

[Don Scott]

Well folks, you will see that all 'my' photographs have been 'zapped' by Photobucket (almost akin to ransomware!). They seem to be demanding that I pay $399 to have the photos reinstated. Well, I am not going to do that and intend to remove all of my photographs from their website. I take note that some photographs still remain on this thread that have been placed there by others. I would be pleased if anyone could suggest an alternative method of uploading pics to this site. As for the photos that have been removed, I can only apologise for the inconvenience. I JUST FEEL A LITTLE BIT GUTTED BY ALL THIS. I will attempt to upload photos direct from my PC but that has not worked in previous attempts.

The text above is redundant now but I have left it here to show the trauma caused. It has happened once again with 'Postimage' so this is the second time round in an effort to repair the damage caused.

[Peerie Maa]

Just discovered that if you click on the dial that has replaced the photograph, it takes you to the photobucket website to view it. That is a bit long winded but it gets you there. I will let things slide for a while to see if their word 'temporary' means what it says... Meantime, sorry for the fuss and bother.

I hear that Dropbox might work for you.

[Don Scott]

Not much to show for the few hours spent but laying strip is a slow process.

[Peerie Maa]

Nick, I think we can hang fire on that for the while. I have discovered that you can view the photographs by clicking on those dials which takes you to the image as displayed on photobucket. A bit of a long way round but it gets you there. Just not quite as instant as it was! It seems like photobucket does not like the idea of customers posting too many images directly to 3rd party websites. They are accusing me of overdoing the practice but I have not been posting images at any greater rate than I ever was before.

No it's not that, they want to charge us $399 for being able to link our own pictures to this and other forums.

[Don Scott]

Got into all sorts of trouble when trying to include the sharply angled transom so I removed it and just let the strips find there own position. I will now tailor a preliminary transom to fit the strip using those prepositioned blocks to set it at the correct angle.

Nick : I think I should have enough stock left over to use your idea of using the same material as the strip for the fillet that fairs the skeg to the bottom of the boat...bed logs did you call it?

027.jpg

[Rich Jones]

Got into all sorts of trouble when trying to include the sharply angled transom so I removed it and just let the strips find there own position. I will now tailor a preliminary transom to fit the strip using those prepositioned blocks to set it at the correct angle.

Nick : I think I should have enough stock left over to use your idea of using the same material as the strip for the fillet that fairs the skeg to the bottom of the boat...bed logs did you call it?

This 3rd Party Hosting thing is still causing a problem and I have found that some of my Photobucket albums have disappeared altogether, which is a bit annoying. There doesn't seem to be any mechanism for removing your photos from their website.
I wonder if anyone else is having similar problems?

Everyone using Photobucket is being screwed over. What a shame and what a loss to the Forum. Hopefully you have the photos backed up elsewhere, can post them to another photo site and then post them here.

[Don Scott]

Yes Rich, I am pleased to say that all my original photo files are held on external hard drives but, as you say, it's a great pity that photobucket have pulled the plug and let so many website visitors down. The ploy is not far short of 'ransomware' and their given reason for disabling (stated to be overuse) is a downright lie. The reason is greed and I have a feeling they will suffer from it. If I could find a way, I would remove all my photo albums from the photobucket website and I am sure that a lot more folks would do the same.. This text is also redundant but left here, just for the record.

[Peerie Maa]

Nick : I think I should have enough stock left over to use your idea of using the same material as the strip for the fillet that fairs the skeg to the bottom of the boat...bed logs did you call it?

The bed logs go on the inside, they create the "fillet" or flange that the cb case sides attached to and through which the bolts that hold the entire shebang down to the keel pass through.
What you are doing is replicating the thick structural sprung keel of the original, and providing the corner fillet that is stabilising the case/skeg. It needs a new name as it is only now possible with the advent of wood reinforced epoxy.

[johnw]

Just discovered that if you click on the dial that has replaced the photograph, it takes you to the photobucket website to view it. That is a bit long winded but it gets you there. I will let things slide for a while to see if their word 'temporary' means what it says... Meantime, sorry for the fuss and bother.

This isn't working for me.

[Don Scott]

Having looked at developments concerning the photobucket fiasco on Jim Ledger's thread 'Lofting the Brewer Catboat' I have downloaded my files from photobucket and then deleted them. They are no use to anyone if they can't be seen in this thread. All I can say is that I will look for another photographic 'host in the sky' at which point I will come back here.
Jim Ledger is the prominent 'victim' in this sordid episode having had many years work spoiled by what can only be described as 'ransomware' tactics on behalf of photobucket.

All I can say folks is, vote with your feet and abandon photobucket...don't pay the ransom!

Once again...left here for the record as I can not erase other member's references to the problem.

[ulav8r]

Deleted my pictures and account last night.

[Don Scott]

I feel like a bit of a pioneer here! This is another copy and paste exercise, this time using the free service POSTIMAGE.
I use the word 'free' very loosely as there may be a great movement of 'photo hosts' ready to turn their free services into cash cows on the back of photobucket's recent money grabbing exercise!
I DO HOPE THE LATTER ARE ABOUT TO SLIDE DOWN THE PAN...you know the one I mean.

[Jim Ledger]

No picture showing in that last post, Don.

I'm using SmugMug and like the site. I've signed up for their lowest tier membership, which is $13/mo. I have my doubts that anyone will follow PB's example, as I think it will become a disaster for them.

BTW, I find it easy to size the photos when linking, and find that the "large" format works well.

[Peerie Maa]

I feel like a bit of a pioneer here! This is another copy and paste exercise, this time using the free service DROPBOX as suggested by Nick.
I use the word 'free' very loosely as there may be a great movement of 'photo hosts' ready to turn their free services into cash cows on the back of photobucket's recent money grabbing exercise!
I DO HOPE THEY ARE ABOUT TO SLIDE DOWN THE PAN...you know the one I mean.

The photo below should have shown in a recent post under the photobucket hosting but we all know what happened there.
Text below also transferred from the earlier post and I will attempt to carry on as normal...

"Got into all sorts of trouble when trying to include the sharply angled transom so I removed it and just let the strips find there own position. I will now tailor a preliminary transom to fit the strips using those prepositioned blocks to set it at the correct angle."

I have since found out that i was mistaken, dropbox will not link to fora.

[Don Scott]

Well Nick, I have just spent the last couple of hours trying to up load from DROPBOX and it seems to be working...for me!
I would be pleased if someone comes on here to say that my time wasn't wasted. I must say that I enjoyed the exercise and it was
relatively easy work once I got the hang of it.

Jim, I am very pleased that you have dug your heels in and ploughed forward through this disaster !

[Peerie Maa]

Well Nick, I have just spent the last couple of hours trying to up load from DROPBOX and it seems to be working...for me!
I would be pleased if someone comes on here to say that my time wasn't wasted. I must say that I enjoyed the exercise and it was
relatively easy work once I got the hang of it.

Jim, I am very pleased that you have dug your heels in and ploughed forward through this disaster !

Drop box is a cloud storage that lets you swap documents and imaged between computers. i could send you stuff and vice versa, but I don't think that we can link an URL

[Peerie Maa]

This wont accept the URL tags


https://www.dropbox.com/s/kr2pwagkfhn0fnb/2015-11-12%2020.17.25.jpg

But the link might work for you.

[Peerie Maa]

Yes it did.