Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 456 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 175 of 211

Thread: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

  1. #141
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    athens - greece
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    dear sir, I appreciate your interest and your proposal for the construction of the 16' melonseed skiff! It's very nice boat! but as I told you, I have fallen in love with the catboat ''lorelei''...

    three years ago I saw abandoned a clinker skiff and after a lot of work (a wonderful trip) I managed to stamp it!

    some photographs with vela latina sails

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    athens - greece
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Dear,Don Scott

    I will continue to watch - I enjoy building your boat!!!

  3. #143
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Mouzikus,

    That old boat must have been a labour of love and looks like you only just caught it in time. You certainly made a grand job of restoration.
    On the subject of Gil Smith catboats, I believe that the Long Island Maritime Museum, West Sayville, New York, have plans available for a modern version of one of his boats. The Museum has a website that may help you.

    Many of Smith's designs were similar to 'Lorelei'. I am sorry that I can't help you with plans for this particular boat. If you are determined to build a 'Lorelei' then you must start from the line drawings and offsets (page 1, #6 of this thread) Reduce them to whatever scale you wish (unless you wish to build the full size version - 25 feet) and then derive 27 frames from those results, spaced at the correct intervals. Spacing on the original is 10 inches and they are approximately 7" on my 2/3 scaled down version. All you need after that are some craft skills in wood, a strong will, determination and the patience of Job.

    All I can say is that, if I could manage it then there are many thousands of others who could do the same.

  4. #144
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    athens - greece
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Dear Don Scott, you are really gentleman!!!

    I will use the help of my spouse (I know the English language very quickly) and I will investigate the information you have given me to achieve my goal! Greetings from Greece! visit us some summer ... we have a wonderful sea!
    sorry for my poor English! most is through google translate.

  5. #145
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Mouzikos...I wish you well in your endeavours, but read your German folklore first...never fall in love with the Lorelei or you may find yourself on the rocks.

    Well, at last I have sorted the tumblehome/transom job after quite a few hours of chipping away at it. Here are a few photographs to let you see the results which are not too far away from how they should be. Of course, no boat builder would use my method if he had to earn a living from it. Things would have been easier if I was going to paint the hull white (which may happen eventually) because, in exposing the strip build the strips had to line up all the way up and over onto the deck. You will see what I mean in the photographs and I wasn't all together joking when I likened it to marquetry with all those small pieces. However, they form the curve that is followed by the wider deck border strip which also carries the toe rail.
    088.jpg089.jpg079.jpg
    Last edited by Don Scott; 04-26-2018 at 08:26 AM.

  6. #146
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    39,254

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    ^That looks sweet.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  7. #147
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    I took a leaf out of Rich Jones ideas book and it worked very well. The fibre glass tube goes all the way through from top of aft king plank (which will end up much thinner than you see here) and through the false keel so it should be good and water tight around the rudder shaft area. I don't know what wood was used for the original shaft...I have been looking for an offcut of Douglas fir but all the timber merchants want me to buy a whole forest. Gone are the days when these businessmen were very willing to help out in cases like mine. They just don't seem to be bothered about have a little pile of offcuts lying about, just waiting for people like me. I would be interested to hear what other kinds of wood might be used for the rudder shaft. You may have spotted the only 'small' rib in the lazerette which was going to be Ash but in fact it's Oak. Once again, I have been unable to purchase a length of Ash for the job. Anyway, I'm sure that Oak will do just as good a job as long as I can bend it...Heart's of Oak and all that.
    082.jpg091.jpg

    This is the basic layout but with the plastic tube...now replaced with a made up fibreglass tube.
    Last edited by Don Scott; 04-26-2018 at 08:33 AM.

  8. #148
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Having glassed the lazerette, I am now working my way forward and doing the same for the whole interior. This involves removing the rest of those MDF moulds, but it can't be helped. I will have to support the hull in some other way when I turn it over for glassing the bottom. I have also started to beef up the carlins with double knees either side of each of the odd numbered frames... you will see a couple over the three 'bays' that I have already glassed, just forward of the rear cockpit bulkhead (the one that will have a pair of doors mounted on it)

    I have just learned that the cleat at the rear of the original's forward king plank is barely 3" long so the one you see will have to go, even though it is the right shape. Lorelei is getting her first taste of steel in the form of the mooring ring. Unfortunately, even though we are only a stones throw from Sheffield...home of stainless steel! the one here has come from a little further afield.


    094.jpg095.jpg
    Last edited by Don Scott; 04-26-2018 at 08:38 AM.

  9. #149
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    These are the lazarette doors (closed and open) on the original cat boat, mentioned in above post. The box structure carries the rudder post.
    Photographs by kind permission of Tom.
    Lorelei 15 - Copy.jpgLorelei 25.jpg
    Last edited by Don Scott; 04-26-2018 at 08:47 AM.

  10. #150
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    West Sayville, New York
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Don- that transom looks great!

  11. #151
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Well, Tom, I am quite pleased with it but it took an awful long time to get there. I've now got another long and tedious job in glassing the rest of the interior so I might not be back here for a while. If you are reading this, could you measure the width of the horse and distance from rear face of cockpit coaming please. I think I have just about enough information/measurements now to finish the build. Some of my dimensions are slightly off the mark here and there but not miles off... a blind man on a galloping donkey would be hard pressed to notice them. I think the faults stem from scaling up from the model instead of down from the actual boat.


    Thanks for those extra photographs you sent by PM. I will continue to post them and others on the forum as they become relevant to the build progress.

  12. #152
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    West Sayville, New York
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Don- I'm not sure what you mean by "horse" but I'll measure some items for you next week. As far as the cleat goes it was 3 1/2 inches with about 3/8 removed from the horn facing aft. Not sure why this was done and I'm not sure of the purpose of this cleat as there is the mooring ring forward. I would think that you could use a 4 inch cleat. Tom

  13. #153
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Tom,

    The fitting I am interested in is the metal 'loop' that is mounted just behind the cockpit coaming. All I need is a measurement between the two mounting holes on the deck so as I can make one from SS round bar. Also, how far back is it from the coaming...it looks to be around 8" or so.

    I have heard people refer to this fitting as the 'horse' and it carries the 'traveller' but I am not well up on nautical vocab as I have admitted before. Maybe you have a different name for it over there.


    Lorelei 26.jpg
    Last edited by Don Scott; 04-26-2018 at 08:50 AM.

  14. #154
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    West Sayville, New York
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Don the holes are 21 1/2 inches on center and 35 inches from the transom. So 7 1/2 inches from the coaming. The traveler made from 1/2 inch stock and is 1 1/4 inches off the deck.

  15. #155
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Thanks again Tom. With that information I can set about closing the lazarette. However, I still haven't found any suitable wood type for the rudder shaft and tiller. Too be honest, I am not sure of what wood is best to use so if anyone has any ideas I would be pleased to hear them. See below, the items in question from a higher angle.

    I am still ploughing my way through the interior glassing at the moment and it's a slow job plus I have been catching up with a few domestic jobs/repairs that needed doing.



  16. #156
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    West Sayville, New York
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Scott View Post
    Thanks again Tom. With that information I can set about closing the lazarette. However, I still haven't found any suitable wood type for the rudder shaft and tiller. Too be honest, I am not sure of what wood is best to use so if anyone has any ideas I would be pleased to hear them. See below, the items in question from a higher angle.

    I am still ploughing my way through the interior glassing at the moment and it's a slow job plus I have been catching up with a few domestic jobs/repairs that needed doing.


    White oak.

  17. #157
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Got that Tom. I've just found a guy in Sheffield who sells parts for making stair cases and it looks like he might have some white oak newel posts that will do the shaft and the tiller. I'm looking forward to having a go at producing the Gil Smith 'terminal' knob on the end of the tiller. On closer inspection of one of your photographs, I just wondered if that feature was made separately and then bonded to the tip of the tiller.


  18. #158
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mountain lakes of Vermont
    Posts
    10,645

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Glad that my idea for a homemade fiberglass tube worked out for your rudder. It's things like this that justify my existence.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  19. #159
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    West Sayville, New York
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Don- the tillers were made from one piece of white oak. The "diamond" shaped feature was a unique feature of his tillers. The last one I made was from a scrap piece of 2 inch planking stock because it had to be about 7 inches in depth. Maybe a thick stair tread would a better choice?

  20. #160
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    11,401

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    I should think that locust might be a good choice for a rudder post. It is also good for a tiller if you can find it over there. One of our woods that would work is Osage Orange also called Bois d' Arc. One of the toughest woods I know of! Rot and bug proof, it is also heavy. I would not choose it for a tiller though.
    Then, a piece of your fine English Elm might suffice.
    Just some thoughts from an admirer of your work and choice of design. "Lorelei" is a secductive witch for sure!
    Jay

  21. #161
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Thanks for that advice Tom and the latest photographs I have just received...and Jay, for that extra information about wood alternatives. Dutch Elm caused the demise of many of our fine home grown species but I haven't seen much of it about in the timber yards. I suspect that most of it was burned to try and eradicate the disease. Rich, I'm so very pleased that your purpose on this planet has reached its zenith with that corking idea for an epoxy rudder tube which 'steered' me in the right direction. I am very pleased with the results anyway.

    I am still glassing the interior and look forward to posting more photos but, it will be a while yet...other jobs keep getting in the way.

  22. #162
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Well, I got across to Jackson Woodturners of Sheffield today and picked up a piece of American White Oak. It was cut from a plank end especially for me by a gentleman who was only too pleased to help.
    I brought it back home and just couldn't wait to have a go at that Gil Smith tiller 'terminal'. It is only roughly cut and marked out but here is a photo of it anyway.
    097.jpg
    Last edited by Don Scott; 04-26-2018 at 08:56 AM.

  23. #163
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    After about an hour I ended up with this slightly oversize feature on the tiller end but I can't say that this was deliberate. I'm pleased it worked out that way though because it would have looked a bit sorry for itself at 2/3 scale. It was very satisfying work using only a Perma Grit rasp so it wasn't really a wood carving exercise. It was probably more like trying to develop the facets on a diamond and all the time using the eyeball to balance each one against the others.
    098.jpg
    Last edited by Don Scott; 04-26-2018 at 08:59 AM.

  24. #164
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Juneau, Alaska
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    You're doing great work Don. This is going to be a beautiful boat when it's done.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  25. #165
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    West Sayville, New York
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Scott View Post
    After about an hour I ended up with this slightly oversize feature on the tiller end but I can't say that this was deliberate. I'm pleased it worked out that way though because it would have looked a bit sorry for itself at 2/3 scale. It was very satisfying work using only a Perma Grit rasp so it wasn't really a wood carving exercise. It was probably more like trying to develop the facets on a diamond and all the time using the eyeball to balance each one against the others.

    That looks like Gil himself made it Don.

  26. #166
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Couldn't wish for a better compliment than that, Tom. I don't have anything worth a photo yet and still struggling away with the internal glassing. I don't quite have the 'nack' of glassing and not too happy with the results of my labours. The only saving grace is the fact that most of it will be hidden by the duck boards.

    Don't know why it comes to mind but I was wondering if Gil Smith has a marked resting place. Not that I will ever visit of course but one of the reasons for interest in Lorelei is the fact that it comes from an age gone by and even though I am not a citizen of the USA I can still conjure up warm visions in my mind of the way boat building might have been in those days...even with only the sketchiest photo of his boatyard.

  27. #167
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Not much to show for the last few weeks because of numerous problems which I will not bore you with. Then my PC gave up the ghost and had to be replaced. The weather hasn't been kind either and we have had much rain and a steady drop in temperature.

    I have completed the intermediate ribs which are made from oak laminate, turned the rudder post and now forming the rudder itself. The lazerette is about to be closed off just as soon as I get the holes drill for the 'horse'. Other than that I have slowed down a bit and may not get much more done through the winter. I can't use a heater in the boat shed because the only way to get around the boat is to have the double doors open.
    103.jpg105.jpg106.jpg
    Last edited by Don Scott; 04-26-2018 at 09:04 AM.

  28. #168
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"


  29. #169
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    39,254

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Scott View Post
    Two excellent pictures.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  30. #170
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Just fishing for ideas. We all make mistakes and my latest one is forgetting to include limber holes in the frames. However, the frames are so shallow that, to have included them would have compromised the strength of the frames. The only course of action might be to drill very small holes and use short pieces of ultra small bore plastic pipe, well sealed...but how do I produce those holes parallel to the bottom? Is there a tool to do the job...an ordinary drill chuck is going to get in the way and produce holes at an angle.

  31. #171
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    39,254

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Try using a long drill half the size you need and drill from both sides angled down so that you come out above the plank. Then use a gouge to open the hole out down to the plank, and a rat tail file to make the hole round. For those skinny timbers, cut them back and glue a tapered arm to the top, pocketed into the cb case bed logs.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  32. #172
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    OK, Nick, I will give that a try. I made the same omission when I built the Melonseed a few years ago and it was a pain mopping up between every frame after every sailing.

  33. #173
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    West Sayville, New York
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Perhaps a right angle drill adapter could be of use?

  34. #174
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Wellington, NZ
    Posts
    563

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    I noticed that in your photo's, but didn't feel right pointing it out.
    Nick has the best answer probably, could you try a Dremel type tool with the flexible extension and a burr bit as big as you can find.
    The intermediate frames are so small that you could be better off to cut them short and glue a tapered piece of wood over the top that continues onto the top of the Keelson. Much quicker, tidy solution.

  35. #175
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Firbeck, Notts/South Yorks border, England
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

    Thanks for those ideas folks. I will use a combination of all your ideas to put things right. I have found an old flexible drive in one of my sheds which has not been used for the past 30+ years. Your idea of notching the thinner ribs has given me another idea. If I bridge the gap to the height of the larger ribs, I can use same thickness for cross member strips to join the duck boards directly above the thin ribs. That will allow the duck boards to rest at 7" intervals instead of 14". The bonus = thinner/lighter duck boards. I will take some photographs as do this job.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •