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Thread: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

  1. #36
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by CK 17 View Post
    So according to the link in post #15, the container ship made a 90 degree right turn, then back on course, then a 180 degree left turn, then after the collision made a 180 degree right turn and continued on. WTF.

    If i get 2 miles off course, I've got a lot of splaining to do.

    is this common behavior. I'm I misunderstanding what I'm seeing?

    did they get in a situation where they were both counter acting each other's evasive action an hit each other.
    Maybe they picked up a blacked out, fast moving, partially stealthed radar return, and thought it was pirates? Doesn't account for thr u-turn though
    We are all armchair admirals, speculating. What I dont get is why the container ship then carried on, after the collision - is that normal?

    Pete
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Whole lot of opinions here but who is a knowledgeable expert on this situation? I'm not an expert but I served on a US destroyer for over 2 years. I do know that questioning competence of the bridge watch may likely be off base in my experience and my ship was manned mostly by crew with fewer years experience than in today's Navy. Could have been that or other reasons for the collision and we don't know. Reliance on instrumentation rather than on people watching would be one big difference from my time. My ship suffered a collision with a capital ship due to steering system failure during refueling at sea. I doubt anything could have avoided it.

    The path of the container ship is truly strange and the fact that they did not stop after the collision is difficult to believe.
    Tom L

  3. #38
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Maybe they saw the U.S. Navy destroyer and other U.S. Navy ships on their radar. You gotta think these ships were giving fast and relatively large radars returns and may have been being steered in non linear path. Maybe they realized they were soon gonna be in contact with the military and decided it prudent to try to give them room.
    I share in this logical supposition as a plausible explanation for the curious course changes, but it fails to explain why the collision still occurred. If the container ship was sufficiently aware of the position of the destroyer to change course, then the odds of a subsequent collision seem rather long.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Six of the missing guys were Russian mercenaries. The seventh was Putin. They coached the ships together, and jumped off just before the collision. Picked up by Russian nuclear sub. Yet another operation to make the Americans look stupid. Trump & Co. was in on it, natch.
    Well, Mr. Botard, do you still deny all rhinocerotic evidence?

  5. #40
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Perhaps the American ship later jammed its radar?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  6. #41

    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Maybe they saw the U.S. Navy destroyer and other U.S. Navy ships on their radar. You gotta think these ships were giving fast and relatively large radars returns and may have been being steered in non linear path. Maybe they realized they were soon gonna be in contact with the military and decided it prudent to try to give them room.
    All stop might have been a better choice is they found themselves inside the middle of a naval drill.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Perhaps the American ship later jammed its radar?
    It still would be an unlikely intersection if the evasive maneuvers (if indeed they were) were conducted with a reasonably accurate presumed position of the destroyer.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Well, what about the radar on the destroyer? There's another head or two that has to roll. It's not like the freighter has a low radar signature, after all...

    Sort of reminds me of Andrea Doria and Stockholm.
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  9. #44
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Well, what about the radar on the destroyer? There's another head or two that has to roll. It's not like the freighter has a low radar signature, after all...

    Sort of reminds me of Andrea Doria and Stockholm.
    It seems like a broad spectrum stuff up. Were they all playing poker or computer games ?
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  10. #45
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    The bodies of the missing U.S. Navy sailors have been found within the wrecked portion of the destroyer.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    shaking my head
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  12. #47
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    The news release stated that the primary area damaged in the collision was a bunk room.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Rest In Peace, shipmates.

    Hope the voyage is a long one.
    May there be many a summer morning when,
    with what pleasure, what joy,
    you come into harbors seen for the first time...

    Ithaka, by Cavafy
    (Keeley - Sherrard translation)

  14. #49
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Yes, sad about the fatalities. NYTimes article says it may take a year to determine fault. A whole year? WTH?

    The freighter being to starboard technically had the right of way, but as has been noted until the facts are known it is speculation. It was a clear night, however.
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  15. #50
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Looking at the animation (FWIW) on the news here, it really looks like the container boat set this up deliberately, at least it is hard to read the series of course changes it made any other way. No doubt if that turns out to be the case, the T word will rear its head.

    Pete
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  16. #51
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    "The animation"?

    linky
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  17. #52
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Maybe they saw the U.S. Navy destroyer and other U.S. Navy ships on their radar. You gotta think these ships were giving fast and relatively large radars returns and may have been being steered in non linear path. Maybe they realized they were soon gonna be in contact with the military and decided it prudent to try to give them room.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Perhaps the American ship later jammed its radar?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Well, what about the radar on the destroyer? There's another head or two that has to roll. It's not like the freighter has a low radar signature, after all...

    Sort of reminds me of Andrea Doria and Stockholm.
    Modern warships are designed to have as small a radar signature as is possible. That is why no upper works are vertical and at 90 degrees to anything.
    The containers OTOH will have given a massive return, like a radar flood light.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  18. #53
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Even if the container ship was trying to run over the destroyer, the destroyer should have moved out of the way. These are very manouverable boats with about the most sophisticated radar systems available! Whose fault? Who knows, but certainly not the container ship! If the destroyer had been on a wharf, perhaps. Fatal incompetence on someone's part, and a whole lot of lives wasted. Very sad.

    Rick

  19. #54
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

    Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

    Hope the voyage is a long one.
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  20. #55
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Any ship to ship communication transcripts been released? Hard to believe a Destroyer can not take evasive manouvers against a container ship. In my experience, no they do not stop after a collision.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpiefan View Post
    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

    Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
    ^^^^
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  22. #57
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    This may be a bit of a simplistic analysis but, all the foo foo technology aside, it would appear that at the time of impact, the helmsman of the freighter was looking at a grean running light and, the helmsman of the destroyer was looking at red...

  23. #58
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    If someone showed me that track and told me to guess where the collision occurred, I would have to choose where the freighter track went from a dead straight course to a right turn. Then it countinued on for a bit handling its own emergency, then turned left and returned to the scene.

    I know now that doesn't jive with the early press reports.
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  24. #59
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    All stop might have been a better choice is they found themselves inside the middle of a naval drill.
    Naval drill is playtime, shipping containers from port to port is commerce. Maybe playtime shouldn't be where commerce is impeded.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Modern warships are designed to have as small a radar signature as is possible. That is why no upper works are vertical and at 90 degrees to anything.
    The containers OTOH will have given a massive return, like a radar flood light.
    What is the likelihood it was running dark, and jamming oppo radar?

  26. #61
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by B_B View Post
    What is the likelihood it was running dark, and jamming oppo radar?
    If it was, it worked...

  27. #62
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by B_B View Post
    What is the likelihood it was running dark, and jamming oppo radar?
    I should think that would be in contravention of standing orders, and if the CO was so criminally stupid he should have his parts felt with utmost prejudice.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  28. #63
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    I wonder how many satellites were watching that debacle?

  29. #64
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    When a Royal Navy ship ran into Lord Howe Is a few years ago, we assumed immediately that the island was not at fault. Theories aside, there is such a thing as reasonable assumption. We sail in the area of the busiest coal port in the world here. Our reasonable assumption is that bulk carriers don't see us and will never afford us right of way, so we stay out of their way. Like coal ships, container ships are thumping great barges with very limited capacity for manoeuvring.

    Rick

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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I should think that would be in contravention of standing orders, and if the CO was so criminally stupid he should have his parts felt with utmost prejudice.
    I KNOW they do this.
    They have done it to me.
    Navy vessels ,carrying a small Coast Guard group, sneaking up on me at night in the Caribbean. I have heard their engines throbbing, but my little Furuno radar not seeing a thing .Navy alone cannot board legally, CG can , So they sneak up , open up with the lights, which is freaking scary, hail you on the VHF, then the big zode comes over.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    I KNOW they do this.
    They have done it to me.
    Navy vessels ,carrying a small Coast Guard group, sneaking up on me at night in the Caribbean. I have heard their engines throbbing, but my little Furuno radar not seeing a thing .Navy alone cannot board legally, CG can , So they sneak up , open up with the lights, which is freaking scary, hail you on the VHF, then the big zode comes over.

    So what did they find, Bruce?

  32. #67
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    A hot ,un ventilated,pitching cabin.
    Dude puked to windward.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    My son, who served on DDG82, a sister ship, was over for dinner tonight. He said this likely wouldn't be catastrophic to anyone's Navy career. It will be a black mark on the C.O.'s record and will definitely affect the Officer On Deck at the time. That's all based on what little we know so far. If there was additional demonstrable malfeasance... say by a radar operator... then it could get uglier. Even though one of his jobs was running navigation systems and monitoring the radar operators... he couldn't see yet how the incident might have occurred.
    David G
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  34. #69
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    A hot ,un ventilated,pitching cabin.
    Dude puked to windward.
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.........

  35. #70
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    Default Re: US Navy destroyer severey damage din collision

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    "The animation"?

    linky
    Dude, it was on the tv news, not the interweb, so no linky. And not worth the effort to find one - just one of those dumb little animated sequences following the track of the container ship, that they love to throw together to fill in time and make it look like they know what they're talking about. Which seems unlikely at this stage.

    Pete
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