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Thread: Stupid question

  1. #1
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    Default Stupid question

    I live in the south. SC to be exact. Water is warm. I hear a lot that wooden boats don't do good at warm waters. Also I would like to minimize as much as possible hull maintenance. So my stupid question is....can I fiberglass or epoxy the bottom? Thinking about it I fiberglass would not be a good idea since the wood inside the hull would I shrink I suppose but then again I could be wrong. But there is the cold molded method. So is there any way that makes financial sense ( as much as financial sense boats can make) to use this method on an old boat? Or would I have to de-plank and cold mold?

    Sorry if you had to answer this question before

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Wood boat do no better or worse in warm or cold water, imo.
    But your specific concerns and questions have more to do with the specific boat. Hull construction.
    Sheathing a boat is not a "death sentence".You may not have to cold mold.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    What's the boat? What construction?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Relics of wrecks over 600 years old have been found remarkably intact in Scandinavia. Very cold water.

    Most of the boats sunk in the Carribean over the centuries have been completely rotted and gone.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Not stupid at all.

    The main problem with boats in the south is two-fold: greater exposure to sunlight coupled with the longer sailing season means more wear and tear with less maintenance.

    There is also the myth of shipworm, which is actually as common north to the maritimes as in the south. But norther boats often come out for the winter and almost always get more bottom paint going back in. So the anti-foul is likely to be better maintained and exposed to worm risk for half the time.

    In other words, there is nothing about being in the south that intelligent maintenance can't fix. A wooden boat is no harder to keep in constant good shape than a glass or metal boat. It's just that a wooden boat cannot withstand 'deferred maintenance' and recover with a power wash and a little buffing.

    You don't say what sort of woodenboat. Presumably not lapstrake, that's very hard to glass. Plywood is commonly glassed when new and can be retrofitted. Plank on frame has a mixed record with glassing, especially when old, as the planks move under the glass and the surface to surface connection fails. Even if glass does not peel off, water gets in starting rot that's hidden under the glass surface until it's so bad something just falls off.

    Alternatives to glassing that have worked well include the Vaitses method that really amounts to using the hull as a left-in male plug for a glass structure and cold mold epoxy set sheathing with wood, that really works well. Also, older wooden boats have often done well if the seams are routered out and soft wood splines are epoxied in.

    So, back to the question: It all depends upon the boat, your abilities, your wallet, and a few dozen other factors we've no clue about.

    So, fill us in.

    But, first general cut: Don't be afraid of wood. Just learn how to keep up.

    G'luck

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    So, I don't know what boat yet since I am just flirting with the idea. I know It would be a sailboat probably frame blanked. I do own a plastic. I got it in a desperate condition for almost free. initially I thought I would just fix a couple of things and sail her until I find a real high seas boat. Well, from just patching up the cockpit's deck, I went to re-rigging, mast rewiring, new seacocks through hulls, paint her, changed port lights, put on electronics (completely useless now I think about it). I am left with changing the cabin sole, spray painting inside an other color and buy some new rugs for her in the future. it took me 2 and a half years. In this time I realized too things. One I don't want to sell her, and I love her. Second, I love working and sailing a boat equally.

    My wallet is thin. My abilities in carpentry are the ones of a 10 year old. The only thing really going for me is, that I never never ever give up

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Wood does scare me though. But I can't get away looking at it. No matter the boat, plastic just don't look the same.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    You can get a workable but less than perfect wooden sailboat for short money. You can then spend megabucks and put countless hours into fixing her, or you can understand her limitations and real needs, do something every year but never do everything, and have a great time sailing.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    I like your answer. like work on the hull and rigging and splash her and the rest in time.
    Just like a plastic

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    There was a boat advertised in the site. I am pretty sure it is sold and that would be a great start. The boat was an Atkins double ender. unfortunately it was located in Canada and I don't feel like getting a boat through customs

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Reuel Parker (LINK) builds & sails in Florida & Caribbean waters; he recommends Xynole polyester cloth (LINK). His
    "The New Cold Molded Boatbuilding" (LINK) tells how.


    Quote Originally Posted by "The Sharpie Book", Reuel Parker
    For maximum durability, cover all exterior plywood with Xynole-polyester fabric saturated with epoxy. Fiberglass is not as strong or durable over wood, is more difficult to work with, is toxic and hideously irritating (you don't want it anywhere near your home), and costs about the same.

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    “What use is a house if you haven’t got a tolerable planet to put it on?”


    ~~~ Henry David Thoreau

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Sharpiefan is this for new built boats?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Quote Originally Posted by energise View Post
    Sharpiefan is this for new built boats?
    Yes, and sheathing existing hulls, pretty much anything you'd use f-g for, with the usual caveats: clean, dry, unrotted; you know the drill.

    Don't forget the pictures.

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    “What use is a house if you haven’t got a tolerable planet to put it on?”


    ~~~ Henry David Thoreau

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    What pictures? I have not found a boat yet and I am not in a rush to find one. I am flirting with the idea, and if the right one comes along then yeah I will have pictures to share

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Unbelievable!!!! The book you put a link in here, is the from the same guy I have been reading some articles on the website just now as we were speaking. It did not register to me initially but when I got it, I was so surprised. This is a small world

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    And I know where leopard is the boat he built. Two winters ago he was one the hard in Beaufort for a while. Last summer I was sailing past her daily on her mooring in Hilton head island, at Sea pines. With the hurricane she was moved to a safer location, and this year I have been very busy I have not been around to report on her location. But the current owners are really taking a good care of her. Beautiful boat. For rich people I guess. Never the less she does make an attraction

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Quote Originally Posted by energise View Post
    What pictures? I have not found a boat yet and I am not in a rush to find one. I am flirting with the idea, and if the right one comes along then yeah I will have pictures to share
    We're hoping you start a thread on your work; pictures enhance a thread enormously.




    Leopard (LINK) in the Key West Wrecker's Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Reuel Parker
    My years living and cruising on “Leopard” included the best sailing I have ever experienced in my life. Ripping across the turquoise Bahama Banks at eleven knots in the trade wind, steering with fingertip ease, naked in the warm sun, makes a lasting picture I need only to close my eyes and remember.
    Last edited by sharpiefan; 06-16-2017 at 11:39 AM.

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    “What use is a house if you haven’t got a tolerable planet to put it on?”


    ~~~ Henry David Thoreau

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    As much as it makes the purist in me shudder, with the environmental regulations reducing the effectiveness of antifouling paint to little more than ordinary whitewash, one should seriously consider coating the bottom of any wooden boat with an epoxy barrier coat. This is a very thin epoxy coating that serves as a barrier to marine borers, but not to vegetative growth, so as good a bottom paint as you can find should be applied over the barrier coat. https://www.hamiltonmarine.com/blisters-barrier-coats/

    Any protection against marine borers is dependent upon the total coverage of the bottom of the boat. Antifouling biocides will deter the critters getting a foothold, but if there is any place where they can access wood, such as even a small patch of scraped-off bottom paint, they will be able to attack the wood. They bore a tiny hole into the wood and then bore along the softwood, protected by the exterior of the piece, much as do termites. A barrier coat will not kill borers, but only prevents them from eating through it to get to the wood. If the barrier coat cracks when planks open up while a boat is out of the water, the barrier coat will be compromised and will have to be touched up, or antifouling paint worked well into the cracks before launching.

    A Dutch antifouling product used on ships and workboats for the last few years, Micanti Antifouling Film, has recently become available for recreational vessels. It's also marketed as "Finsulate" and "Thorn-D." This is a chemically inert adhesive-backed fabric film that mechanically prevents marine growth(100% eco-friendly, they say.) I have no experience with it and am not sure whether it is suitable for wooden boats, but it would appear to be, particularly when applied over a barrier coating on a wooden hull. It is applied by licensed contractors and I have no idea what it costs, but all indications are it offers substantial savings over conventional bottom paint. At present, it's supposed to last up to five years, but that is only because it hasn't been in use longer than that. Estimates are that it should last for at least ten years before reapplication is necessary. Damage to the material is easily repaired by simply slapping a patch of the same material over the tear. In use, recommended maintenance is to have a diver scrub it with a Scotch-Brite pad annually, or to hose it off if hauled. It's being used on container ships and tankers, where fouling increases fuel costs, and by government and industrial outfits on small craft, so that would seem to be a good recommendation.

    To hear the manufacturer tell it, the stuff is the greatest thing since sliced bread and, if their claims are true, it may well be. If anybody has any experience with the stuff, I'd sure like to hear more about it. See: http://www.micanti.com/

    Last edited by Bob Cleek; 06-16-2017 at 01:19 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    sharpie I would if there was a picture to show picture of. I never show the leopard sailing before. Either on the hard or on her mooring. When you see the boat from up close, you can't not wonder how she sails with such a shallow keel. I wonder how she would on open ocean. And if she would fine then what is the need for deep keels.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    But I think I got my answers for this thread. Wooden boats are fine in the south as long as they are maintained and there is a way to cover the bottom wood. So I will investigate on possible ways and costs now and let this be. Thank you all

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Quote Originally Posted by energise View Post
    sharpie I would if there was a picture to show picture of. I never show the leopard sailing before. Either on the hard or on her mooring. When you see the boat from up close, you can't not wonder how she sails with such a shallow keel. I wonder how she would on open ocean. And if she would fine then what is the need for deep keels.
    If you click HERE, it will take you to his webpage for Leopard. Click HERE for a description of the plans.





    In The Commodore's Story , Ralph Munroe speaks with affection of the fruit-carrying schooners from the Caribbean unloading their cargoes at South Street wharves in New York. Reuel Parker lived on, worked from, and cruised Leopard for five years. In Skiffs and Schooners , Pete Culler lauds the shallow-draft, centerboard schooner.

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    “What use is a house if you haven’t got a tolerable planet to put it on?”


    ~~~ Henry David Thoreau

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    I have s newly planked 42' clinker boat, and am absolutely terrified of ship worm. There's no realistic way to protect every damn hairline crack in the antifouling as the planks work.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    The stuff that Bob mentions sounds more than interesting. As products that fail to do the job they are designed to do, antifouling is just ahead of varnish. I just find it bloody depressing how fast stuff grows on my boat, no matter what antifouling I use (other than some TBT I got while in Papua New Guinea). Over on the Antipodean Boat thread there is a pic recently of a lovely clinker boat which got worm in it. She sank. I'm so glad sometimes that my boat is strip planked, and sheathed in glass from new.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Ps, that has to be the most appalling instructional/promotional video ever! If it's an indication of thenqualitynof the product, sheesh, forget it. But I really, really hope this stuff is the real deal.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Ps, that has to be the most appalling instructional/promotional video ever! If it's an indication of thenqualitynof the product, sheesh, forget it. But I really, really hope this stuff is the real deal.
    You can say that again! If you search "Micantifouling" on YouTube, there's a fair number of videos. Unfortunately, what look like the best of them are in Dutch! Dutch is pretty close to English... sort of half way between English and German, but not close enough for me to understand. They really need to get an English speaking advertising agency!

    Here's a couple of comparison videos that are interesting:


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    This one is pretty impressive. They also make non-fouling netting for aquaculture farms out of the stuff.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    If it's that good, they should own the world by now! It's obviously been around for a few years. I do hope it's real and becomes available.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    The med is not really the water you need to compare to the east coast. Nothing grows in the med. too much salt

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    Quote Originally Posted by energise View Post
    Nothing grows in the med. too much salt
    I think you're thinking of the Black Sea?

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Stupid question

    No Med. I don't literally mean nothing. But in general there is hardly any growth on the hull

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