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Thread: Big Tent Democrats

  1. #1
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    Default Big Tent Democrats

    [IMc - Here's a step in the right direction for the democratically inclined.]

    New Democratic political director: "Definitely a need to rebrand and restore faith" in the DNC

    Published June 9, 2017, by Will Drabold

    In a show of unity for the establishment and progressive wings of the Democratic Party, the Democratic National Committee has hired Amanda Brown Lierman, a former Barack Obama staff member and Bernie Sanders supporter, to become the party's political and organizing director.

    Lierman was the campaign director at the climate change, labor union-backed super PAC For Our Future, where she worked since mid-2016.

    "There's definitely a need to rebrand and restore faith that people have in the DNC," Lierman, 31, said in an interview. "I hope people look toward this new leadership as a step and progress on that."

    Lierman has straddled the establishment and progressive wings of Democratic Party politics. Lierman worked in the Obama administration, both at the White House and Department of Energy, before leaving to run Rock the Vote during the 2012 presidential election. She was executive director of the National Women's Business Council from 2014 to last year.

    By hiring a millennial woman of color to head its political and grassroots organizing efforts, the DNC seeks to boost its credibility among younger and minority voters. The party was devastated by lower turnout among minorities and younger voters during the 2016 presidential election. Lierman said the party needs to double down on the grassroots organizing strategies that worked for Sanders.

    She also acknowledged the challenges the party faces, especially in convincing Sanders supporters and younger voters to trust the DNC. "We have to work with them," Lierman said of the Sanders-backed Our Revolution. She was critical of how the DNC treated Sanders in the past, saying she would take no part in favoring particular candidates.

    Lierman said she has "an opportunity to bring some of the factions of the party back together again."

    Tom Perez, the DNC chairman, said the hire is "essential" to electing Democrats nationwide. "We have a tough fight ahead of us, but I have full confidence that Amanda and every single one of these women and men are ready for challenge to get our country back on the right track," Perez said in a statement. The DNC did not provide a comment from DNC vice chairman Keith Ellison for this story.

    Perez and Ellison, a Democratic congressman from Minnesota, fought a bitter race for DNC chair as the party split over its future in the wake of Hillary Clinton's defeat. After Perez won, he immediately gave Ellison the spotlight. Perez has toured the country with Bernie Sanders, the independent Vermont senator whose progressive message made a strong showing in his bid to become the Democratic presidential candidate.

    The split in the party also played out in the House. Rep. Tim Ryan, a Democrat from working class Youngstown, Ohio, which voted heavily for Donald Trump, challenged Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) for the party leadership after Trump won the election. Ryan argued Democrats need to connect better with white, working class voters that shifted to Trump.

    Lierman believes she can help the party connect with black women and rural voters alike. "They're not that far apart, in terms of what people are looking for," she said. "Mostly, they're looking for leaders they trust."

    Lierman will report to Perez and Jess O'Connell, the party's new chief executive officer.

    https://mic.com/articles/179435/new-...dnc#.TnOMvTCP0

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Sounds like good news - but the old guard will not go down without a fight.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Rebrand sounds like Clinton's "two faces" comment. The old guard needs to go away.

    We need to stop fighting the 2nd amendment and start fighting the big corporations.
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    The old guard needs to go away.
    Amen. New blood, new ideas. Folks are getting tired of the so-called dynasties.
    Four years before their elections, Obama, Macron, Trump, Trudeau were on no ones radar.
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    New Democratic political director: "Definitely a need to rebrand and restore faith" in the DNC.
    Rebrand, gag me with a spoon.

    Faith is the opposite of what's needed. It was faith that got us into this. Faith in the belief that it's enough not to be Republican.

    New, new, new, re-do, restore. Fooey. New isn't new unless it's different. Unless its a rebranded new repackaging of the SOS.

    Lots of words, but not one of any substance. Rather, the new party has new candidates, of color, of gender, young. Stop making like you're selling toothpaste to horny teens.
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    "Rebranding" is an advertising concept, and does not involve a change in the actual product.
    Well, Mr. Botard, do you still deny all rhinocerotic evidence?

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    What they need to do is take the Bernie cohort seriously.

    I am SO sick of the Clinton shtick.
    Gerard>
    Everett, WA

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    What they need to do is realize they have far more in common than not, that any differences are miniscule compared to the differences with the Republicans, and that we need to all come together and take back power.

    I am SO sick of the 'Clinton is the devil' shtick.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Yeah. That. Unbelievable but the Dems are quite capable of pi$$ing the next election away, too.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    What they need to do is realize they have far more in common than not, that any differences are miniscule compared to the differences with the Republicans, and that we need to all come together and take back power.

    I am SO sick of the 'Clinton is the devil' shtick.
    So yeah, it doesn't matter that Clinton was the reason many people voted for Trump? They were that desperate to see her lose. And the DNC and you were too blinded, by whatever, to see that she was a brick and not an eagle. Not one of Clinton's qualifications mattered; in the end, she lost. Evil? No. She was just not right for many reasons already discussed at length. I'd thank you to stop painting those liberals who opposed her as the enemy else you make us your political enemy for real. And we all know who's gonna win that fight; The Republicans. I voted for her when it mattered, now it's your turn to eat crow and take one for the team.
    Last edited by McMike; 06-15-2017 at 06:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Ms. Clinton won't run for anything anymore. I agree with you 100% about the need for unity and cooperation; my entire point is that none of us are enemies, from the most fanatical fan of Hillary to the most rabid 'Bernie Bro'; we're all friends with some minor differences of opinion. The enemies are all too obvious.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 06-15-2017 at 07:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Amen.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Ms. Clinton won't run for anything anymore. I agree with you 100% about the need for unity and cooperation; my entire point is that none of us are enemies, from the most fanatical fan of Hillary to the most rabid 'Bernie Bro'; we're all friends with some minor differences of opinion. The enemies are all too obvious.
    The people who say white people can't come on campus are my enemies. They're out or I am.
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    What they need to do is take the Bernie cohort seriously.

    I am SO sick of the Clinton shtick.
    This writer says that Democrats cannot return to power without having an inta-party civil war. Their coalition is so weakly connected the party has become afraid and unable to have the internal debates necessary to connect with voters on a coherent governing philosophy.

    http://www.salon.com/2017/06/18/yes-...back-to-power/

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    I hope they also pay attention to white people without a particular ethnic identity or protected status, particularly men.

    Since their failure to do so is why is why they keep losing.

    Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    I hope they also pay attention to white people without a particular ethnic identity or protected status, particularly men.

    Since their failure to do so is why is why they keep losing.

    Just a thought.
    It is very easy to read this as a contradiction in terms, Chris.

    Rather, how about the Democrats focusing on equality for all Americans? Very simple. It is the right thing to do, it is one of the founding principles of this nation, and it is exactly the opposite of what the Republicans are doing on almost all fronts. Healthcare, education, economic policy in addition to civil rights being among the prominent examples.

    Just a thought.
    Steve Martinsen

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMARTINSEN View Post
    It is very easy to read this as a contradiction in terms, Chris.

    Rather, how about the Democrats focusing on equality for all Americans? Very simple. It is the right thing to do, it is one of the founding principles of this nation, and it is exactly the opposite of what the Republicans are doing on almost all fronts. Healthcare, education, economic policy in addition to civil rights being among the prominent examples.

    Just a thought.
    Of course. For all.

    But to make change the Democrats have to win. Lower and middle class whites, in particular, do not see the Democratic Party as aligned with their interests. Ms. Clinton made an art of this with her tone deaf campaign and self-immolating debate performances. The Sanders phenomenon was largely that of the far left and the young. High energy, but not enough to win the nomination. Democrats can write off or condescend to the Trump base. (The "deplorables"?) Or they can try to appeal to voters where they ought to have their fair share of the vote.

    If the Democrats want to be completely irrelevant, they'll go hard progressive and ignore socially conservative economically vulnerable white people, especially men.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Of course. For all.

    But to make change the Democrats have to win. Lower and middle class whites, in particular, do not see the Democratic Party as aligned with their interests. Ms. Clinton made an art of this with her tone deaf campaign and self-immolating debate performances. The Sanders phenomenon was largely that of the far left and the young. High energy, but not enough to win the nomination. Democrats can write off or condescend to the Trump base. (The "deplorables"?) Or they can try to appeal to voters where they ought to have their fair share of the vote.

    If the Democrats want to be completely irrelevant, they'll go hard progressive and ignore socially conservative economically vulnerable white people, especially men.
    What should Democrats offer in sacrifice to attract such people?

    Women's reproductive freedoms? Undocumented immigrants? Gun control? LGBT rights? Environmental protections?

    Maybe throw in some anti-muslim rhetoric. Ridicule Black Lives Matter, "feminism", and academia.

    Are their ears perking up yet?

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    I think my point is being made for me.

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Do I characterize such folk unfairly, Cris?

    They already have a party. Trump is their guy.

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Four years before their elections, Obama, Macron, Trump, Trudeau were on no ones radar.
    Good point.
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    What should Democrats offer in sacrifice to attract such people?

    Women's reproductive freedoms? Undocumented immigrants? Gun control? LGBT rights? Environmental protections?

    Maybe throw in some anti-muslim rhetoric. Ridicule Black Lives Matter, "feminism", and academia.

    Are their ears perking up yet?
    I don't think Cris is saying the Dems should try to attract the hard core Trump supporters at all. There are many voters who "held their noses" & voted for him - especially in rural areas. These people overlooked many things to vote for "change" & they would do the same thing for a Dem. candidate who spoke to them instead of down to them. A large group I'm thinking of is Bernie supporters. A lot of people who would have voted for him voted for Trump - because they felt the conventional Dem. party was ignoring their issues: jobs, taxes, etc. - and because they didn't really learn about him. There are many others who might not have voted for Bernie, but would've considered a Dem. who was less toxic -and yes, I realize that HRC's toxicity was created by the right. However it was created, it was a reality the the Dem. party completely blew off.
    Last edited by Garret; 06-19-2017 at 07:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    Do I characterize such folk unfairly, Cris?

    They already have a party. Trump is their guy.
    I'm a white man. Trump is not my guy. Voting for Hillary Clinton made me gag.

    The U.S. political center of gravity remains center-right. The Democrats can stake out the progressive minority if they like, and continue to lose outside urban cores. Or, they can tie their progressive yearnings to some centrist pragmatism, in a real big tent way. That's how fairly ideological Republicans have dominated the right and the center for about 30 years.

    The U.S. Democratic Party should look to Macron and Merkel as their models, not Trudeau or Corbyn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    That's how fairly ideological Republicans have dominated the right and the center for about 30 years.
    which has gotten us what?
    unending wars in irag and afghanistan
    rise of islamic terrorism
    weakening of financial market regulation leading to global financial crisis
    weakening of hard won environmental gains to largely benefit the oil industry
    increases in income inequality
    larger deficits and debt
    irrational increase in size of the dod
    the fooking dept of homeland security
    i can go on. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    I would be very interested in seeing some evidence that 'a lot of people who would have voted for Sanders voted for Trump'. I'm sure there are some; some people say that chocolate milk comes from brown cows, but 'a lot'?

    May I point out that the interests of 'e
    conomically vulnerable white people' and economically vulnerable non-white people are very similar, with the exception that more of the white folks live in smaller cities and towns? But the Republican strategy since Lee Atwater has been to 'energize the base' largely by getting to vote against something , lately The Other - whether urban dark-skinned people, immigrants, forks who speak a different language (of, the horror of 'press 1 for English!), people of a different region, particularly Muslims (but they're neither knowledgeable nor picky, Sikhs or B'hais or Hindus or Jains will do, or even Jews in a pinch), anyone not garden-variety heterosexual (God forbid a trans women should use the women's bathroom in NC), those who drive Priuses ('rolling coal', anyone?), uppity feminists . . . The list goes on and on and on. There's a reason that in certain circles and a large part of the radio spectrum 'Liberal' ranks above 'motherf*cker' but below sh!thead as an insult. Look at the Trump rallies; this is what he does well, about the only thing he does well, in fact. Do you really think we're going to convince these folks to vote for a liberal Democrat out of economic self-interest through sweet reason?
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 06-19-2017 at 09:53 AM.
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    I'm a white man. Trump is not my guy. Voting for Hillary Clinton made me gag.

    The U.S. political center of gravity remains center-right. The Democrats can stake out the progressive minority if they like, and continue to lose outside urban cores. Or, they can tie their progressive yearnings to some centrist pragmatism, in a real big tent way. That's how fairly ideological Republicans have dominated the right and the center for about 30 years.

    The U.S. Democratic Party should look to Macron and Merkel as their models, not Trudeau or Corbyn.
    I'm a white man, too.

    But you said "socially conservative, economically vulnerable white people, especially men."

    My argument is, that particular special interest group is already well served by the Republican party. What we have now is them "winning". They are the segment most likely to impede progress of any kind.

    Democrats need to turn out the vote and beat that faction like a dirty rug.

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    which has gotten us what?
    unending wars in irag and afghanistan
    rise of islamic terrorism
    weakening of financial market regulation leading to global financial crisis
    weakening of hard won environmental gains to largely benefit the oil industry
    increases in income inequality
    larger deficits and debt
    irrational increase in size of the dod
    the fooking dept of homeland security
    i can go on. . .
    Which only goes to show that humans are largely stupid, and likely not worth the effort.

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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Do you really think we're going to convince these folks to vote for a liberal Democrat out of economic self-interest through sweet reason?
    Thinking about this some more, Obama did - some of them at least - with a largely positive message. The response of the Republicans was to quadruple down on the hate, fear, and division - and it worked. It 'worked' in the sense that they won some elections, anyway. Almost makes me wish I believed in hell.
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I would be very interested in seeing some evidence that 'a lot of people who would have voted for Sanders voted for Trump'. I'm sure there are some; some people say that chocolate milk comes from brown cows, but 'a lot'?...
    I don't have anything other than anecdotal evidence. On a trip to Ohio during the primaries, I talked to about 20 people on the Indiana border (farm country) & the WV border (coal country). These conversations were prompted by people seeing my Vermont plates & asking "Tell me about Bernie" questions. Every one said that they would vote for Bernie, but if he didn't make it, they hoped Trump would be the Rep. nominee & that they'd vote for him. The common thread was "Ain't no way I'm voting for the status quo". Several also told me that most people they knew felt the same way.

    So - nothing scientific, but it aligns with the Midwestern rural voters going for Trump meme that news outlets talked about.

    ETA: I also ran into similar thoughts in rural Illinois.
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    You could be right, but I'd like to see some harder data.

    I just ran across this; very interesting. You can read the whole thing here.

    Political Divisions in 2016 and Beyond
    Tensions Between and Within the Two Parties
    Lee Drutman

    Key Findings:

    - The primary conflict structuring the two parties involves questions of national identity, race, and morality, while the traditional conflict over economics, though still important, is less divisive now than it used to be. This has the potential to reshape the party coalitions.

    - By making questions of national identity more salient, Donald Trump succeeded in winning over “populists” (socially conservative, economically liberal voters) who had previously voted for Democrats.

    - Among populists who voted for Obama, Clinton did terribly. She held onto only 6 in 10 of these voters (59 percent). Trump picked up 27 percent of these voters, and the remaining 14 percent didn’t vote for either major party candidate.

    - To the extent that the Democratic Party is divided, these divisions are more about faith in the political system and general disaffection than they are about issue positions.

    - By contrast, Republican voters are more clearly split. For the most part, Trump and Cruz supporters look fairly similar, though Cruz supporters are considerably more conservative on moral issues, and notably less concerned about inequality and the social safety net, and more pro- free trade. Kasich supporters are the true moderates, caught in between the two parties on almost every issue, both economic and social.

    - In both parties, the donor class is both more conservative on economic issues and more liberal on social issues, as compared to the rest of the party
    Democrats may be pressured to move further left on identity issues, given that both younger voters and the party’s donor class are quite far to the left on identity issues. If so, American politics would become further polarized along questions of culture and identity.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 06-19-2017 at 11:03 AM.
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    And Jonathan Chait's take on it. Interestinger and interestinger.

    New Study Shows What Really Happened in the 2016 Election
    By Jonathan Chait

    The Democracy Fund Voter Study Group has a new survey of the electorate that explodes many of the myths that we believe about American politics. Lee Drutman has a fascinating report delving into the data. I want to highlight a few of the most interesting conclusions in the survey.

    1. The Democratic Party is not really divided on economics.
    You think the Bernie Sanders movement was about socialism? Not really. Sanders voters have the same beliefs about economic equality and government intervention as Hillary Clinton supporters. On the importance of Social Security and Medicare, Sanders voters actually have more conservative views:




    Where they mainly differ is on international trade and the question of whether politics is a rigged game. The ideological content of Sanders’s platform is not what drew voters. It was, instead, his counter-positioning to Clinton as a clean, uncorrupted outsider.

    2. Fiscal conservative–social liberals are overrepresented.
    The study breaks down the beliefs of voters in both parties by income. The parties tend to cohere pretty tightly — rich Republicans are much closer to poor Republicans than either is to the Democrats; and rich Democrats and poor Democrats share more in common than either does with Republicans.

    Still, there are important differences. The richest members of both parties have more economically conservative and socially liberal views than the poorest members. That gives them disproportionate influence over their agendas and priorities.

    3. Libertarians don’t exist.
    Well, obviously, they exist — just not in any remotely large enough numbers to form a constituency. It’s not just hardcore libertarians who are absent. Even vaguely libertarian-ish voters are functionally nonexistent.

    The study breaks down voters into four quadrants, defined by both social and economic liberalism. But virtually everybody falls into three quadrants: socially liberal/economically liberal; socially conservative/economically conservative; and socially conservative/economically liberal. The fourth quadrant, socially liberal/economically conservative, is empty:



    The libertarian movement has a lot of money and hardcore activist and intellectual support, which allows it to punch way above its weight. Libertarian organs like Reason regularly churn out polemics and studies designed to show that libertarianism is a huge new trend and the wave of the future. Sometimes, mainstream news organizations buy what they’re selling. But the truth is that the underrepresented cohort in American politics is the opposite of libertarians: people with right-wing social views who support big government on the economy.

    4. Trump won by dominating with populists.
    Republicans always need to do reasonably well with populists, which is why there’s always a tension between the pro-government leanings of a large number of their voters and the anti-government tilt of the party agenda. The key to Trump’s success was to win more populists than Mitt Romney had managed. The issues where 2012 Obama voters who defected to Trump diverge from the ones who stayed and voted for Clinton are overwhelmingly related to race and identity.

    As Drutman notes, “Among populists who voted for Obama, Clinton did terribly. She held onto only 6 in 10 of these voters (59 percent). Trump picked up 27 percent of these voters, and the remaining 14 percent didn’t vote for either major party candidate.” What makes this result fascinating is that, in 2008, Clinton had positioned herself as the candidate of the white working class and she dominated the white socially conservative wing of her party. But she lost that identity so thoroughly that she couldn’t even replicate the performance of a president who had become synonymous with elite social liberalism.

    Every election is different. But to the extent that 2016 has an ideological lesson for Democrats, it is that the subject the party is currently debating within itself — whether or how far left to move on economics — is irrelevant to its electoral predicament. The issue space where Clinton lost voters who had supported Obama was in the array of social-identity questions, revolving around patriotism and identity.

    They may not need to solve this problem — Trump’s failures may well solve it for them. And to some extent, moral commitments to social justice may preclude the party from moving to the center on some or all of their social policies. But to the extent Democrats want to optimize their party profile to make Trump a one-term president, the social issues are where they need to focus.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 06-19-2017 at 10:48 AM.
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Democrats need to turn out the vote and beat that faction like a dirty rug.
    LW you sound just like the people you decry. You simply have a different target.

    Kevin
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    The Right is in temporary governmental ascendency (even though a population minority) for a number of factors ranging from almost forty years innoculating their base against facts to gerrymandering to the fact that negative populism is easier or organize than any positive agenda..

    One prong of any return to democracy with two robust parties will be Democrats attacking that last point in two ways:

    A relentlessly positive populist agenda not unlike the great worker-farmer-enlightened business alliance of the thirties. Times and constituencies are different but in essence this is what Sanders tapped into.

    And

    Maintain a strong protest against the kleptocratic oligarchy's class warfare against all who work or are dependent (ailing, elderly, children, and dispossessed) on those whose work support them through family responsibilities, social conscience, and public programs.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Big Tent Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    What should Democrats offer in sacrifice to attract such people?

    Women's reproductive freedoms? Undocumented immigrants? Gun control? LGBT rights? Environmental protections?

    Maybe throw in some anti-muslim rhetoric. Ridicule Black Lives Matter, "feminism", and academia.

    Are their ears perking up yet?
    You just have to attract SOME of them, and a lot of everyone else. There's continual bickering here, but I think the answer is quite simple, and I've offered it several times in the past when unrealistic Democratic candidates were presented for consideration. I think this is what I offered the last time:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    To win, and surely now everyone can agree that winning is everything, someone fresh like Seth Moulton - young, white, male, decorated veteran, charismatic, well educated, practicing protestant, congressional experience, a progressive Democrat with bipartisan record. He might have a chance with his gun control views because he can tout his military background when the NRA comes out against him (they'll come out against every Democratic candidate, that's one of the reasons why a military background is necessary).

    I would love to see a woman president but there's just too much evidence that a woman can't win in 2020, it will have to be later. I was very pleased when Obama was elected, but winning is important, and I think a black candidate would be too risky in 2020.

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