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Thread: London tower block on fire

  1. #71
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    How are you cooking the steak? That's not normally a process which produces carbon monoxide.
    I walked into that one. The smoke alarm of course - and toast is out of the question!
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  2. #72
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I agree. They posted a photo of the inside of a tower block flat when discussing this on t' news. The flat was gutted, nothing more than a blackened box open to the outside where the windows used to be. The fire did not spread to neighbouring flats.

    How did it get inside? Radiant heat from the burning claddings flames bursting the glass and melting the plastic window frames. Then a flashover from hot air at the top of the rooms.
    From my limited knowledge of fire theory, all of it maritime, that sounds right.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  3. #73
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Mrs May visited the scene, but spoke only in private to the emergency services and did not meet survivors - a Government minister cited "security concerns". This has not played well.
    Odd that the Queen was down there today chatting with people. That May woman is so far removed from the people of this country.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    17:07 UK-based company Omnis supplied the panels used for cladding in Grenfell Tower. They have told the BBC's Jim Reed that they were asked to supply one of the cheaper, more flammable versions available then. The company can supply more expensive, fire-retardant versions of the panels now - a type called Reynobond FR - but it is not clear if they were available at the time.

    Jim Reed @jim_reed
    UK-based Omnis, which supplied panels used for cladding #Grenfell, confirms to BBC was asked to supply cheaper, more flammable version.

    Jim Reed @jim_reed
    Omnis didn't manufacturer the panels. They supplied and 'fabricated' them, basically means cut them into shape. Made by US-based Arconic.
    3:14 PM - 16 Jun 2017

    Jim Reed @jim_reed Some confusion over whether the more expensive, fire-retardant, versions of those panels were even available in 2015. Certainly very new.

    Jim Reed @jim_reed Omnis's John Cowley told us cladding system in #Grenfell made from different components from different suppliers, which can be less safe.
    3:20 PM - 16 Jun 2017
    from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-en...ondon-40239008
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #75
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    No surprise to find human lives have a price limit. Im wondering who signed off on the building. What point fitting a 30 minute rated fire door if the cladding is combustable? I believe there is a bit of a ruckus down at city hall at this time.....

  6. #76
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Yes, it seems a council building was 'invaded' by protesters...
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londo...-a3567086.html

  7. #77
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    What stands out for me right now is the stark social inequality that the event has now become representative of. Mr. Corbyn is effectively stoking this perception and doing so as an act of political leadership, no matter how odious it may seem to some. Contrast this with the Tories, who are absolutely leaderless. Run, hide...

  8. #78
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    ^ Ever thought that he might just be a compassionate sort of bloke? Was HMQ being political?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  9. #79
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Tories are desperate to hang on to power, desperate enough to imperil the Northern Ireland agreement and allow the hard men back.
    It seems like the rest of us competent and principled politicians are in very short supply.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    ^ Ever thought that he might just be a compassionate sort of bloke?
    Not really. He's an incredibly sharp, veteran politician. I have very high regard for his skill.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    It can't be pleasant being you.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  12. #82
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    That's not to say that he isn't a compassionate man, I imagine compassion for ordinary people deeply informs his worldview. It's just not what I'm looking for when studying Corbyn nor does such a characterization capture the essence of what he represents as a skilled politician.

    Insults are unbecoming to you, Nick.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    This, too has recently resurfaced...


  14. #84
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    It's just not what I'm looking for when studying Corbyn nor does such a characterization capture the essence of what he represents as a skilled politician.

    Insults are unbecoming to you, Nick.
    Gobbledygook, trying to disguise an unpleasant level of mean spirited cynicism and a default to the lowest level.

    Why not just admit that you were wrong to assume that Corbyn is as cynical as you, and manipulative to boot.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  15. #85
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Gobbledygook, trying to disguise an unpleasant level of mean spirited cynicism and a default to the lowest level.

    Why not just admit that you were wrong to assume that Corbyn is as cynical as you, and manipulative to boot.
    This thread is not about me, Nick. I'm sorry you're so miserable.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    What stands out for me right now is the stark social inequality that the event has now become representative of. Mr. Corbyn is effectively stoking this perception and doing so as an act of political leadership, no matter how odious it may seem to some. Contrast this with the Tories, who are absolutely leaderless. Run, hide...
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    This thread is not about me, Nick. I'm sorry you're so miserable.
    So stop trying to make political mileage out of a tragedy.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #87
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    So stop trying to make political mileage out of a tragedy.
    Well, first of all, I'm not a British citizen and so cannot "make political mileage" out of anything. I'm just sharing observations and opinions.

    Moreover, I've been admiring aspects of Mr. Corbyn's character and skill for a couple of weeks now. Finally, others have discussed the political ramifications of this event, with ACB predicting that it may bring down the entire government.

    Nothing I've said here justifies any insult, Nick. You're simply being rude, and as noted above, it is unbecoming to you.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless
    This message has been deleted by Paul Pless.
    Keepin' thread drift in check.
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Search dogs


    In protective boots.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  20. #90
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    How did the people who got out, get out? Stairs? Elevators?
    Well, Mr. Botard, do you still deny all rhinocerotic evidence?

  21. #91
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    ^ Stairs, never use the elevators in a fire.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  22. #92
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/818...lis-government


    Not being a Political animal I am unable to point a finger anyone in particular.

    However watching the linked video it struck me when Maitlis pointed out to May " that was Wednesday it is now Friday evening" there is a serious lack of ability to tackle situations on the ground here.

    We have survivors who are traumatised, exposed to the elements, nothing but what the stand up in no money or change of clothing. Yet no action appears to have taken place (officially) to tackle this.

    Hindsight is ... Someone should have sent Portable toilets to the immediate area, and directed the Military to provide field kitchens and Catering Corps troops to feed the needy could be implemented in a short time surely.

    Was any nearby Hotels nearby taken over to accommodate the victims?

    OK. there would be onlookers trying to abuse these measures, but the punishment for anyone doing so would be well broadcast, and the punishment would be Draconian. That would be part of the Plan.

    Emergency units were deployed but they appear to be inadequate.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    From your link.
    Nov 20 2016 - KCTMO Playing with fire!
    It is our conviction that a serious fire in a tower block or similar high density residential property is the most likely reason that those who wield power at the KCTMO will be found out and brought to justice! The Grenfell Action Group believe that the KCTMO narrowly averted a major fire disaster at Grenfell Tower in 2013 when residents experienced a period of terrifying power surges that were subsequently found to have been caused by faulty wiring. We believe that our attempts to highlight the seriousness of this event were covered up by the KCTMO with the help of the RBKC Scrutiny Committee who refused to investigate the legitimate concerns of tenants and leaseholders.


    It sounds like this property management company (KCTMO) has a history of unsafe conditions at their properties.
    The Grenfell Tower that burned down last night was just renovated and inspected.

    Questions
    1. Has the Property Management Group has been allowed to operate unsafe building ignoring fire safety laws?
    I would check to see if the fire inspectors have been taking bribes to look the other way.
    2. Did someone from the Grenfell Action Group start the fire as a demonstration and it got out of control?
    Title: Grenfell Tower: 79 presumed dead in London fire
    Link: http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/europe...ire/index.html

  24. #94
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    If there was a disaster plan, as we've had here for decades, then it didn't go into action. I would have thought that by 30 minutes into the fire a major disaster was in the making. Yet nothing, or at least not much.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Looks like there maybe a few buildings clad with similar products here in Australia.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  26. #96
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Much more than a few Gary. Court cases are pending, the lawyers are rubbing their hands, and the public and unsuspecting apartment owners will be shafted.
    Bankruptcies amongst the building industry and suppliers will abound. Some real, some 'convenient'.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    800 households to be evacuated from tower residential blocks now considered unsafe.
    And they started evacuations at……..8.00 pm.

    "FIVE London tower blocks containing 800 homes were being immediately evacuated Friday due to fire safety concerns over their external cladding following the deadly Grenfell Tower inferno, marking one of the biggest peacetime evacuations in Britain’s history. The move comes as residents of thousands of tower blocks around Britain expressed concern about safety after commonly used building materials were blamed for rapidly spreading the blaze at Grenfell Tower.
    Camden Council in north London, which announced the evacuation Friday night, was the first local government to take the dramatic step of emptying its buildings so safety upgrades could be made."

    http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/...7c42bd4020c463

    Corporate manslaughter charges are being considered.
    Good grief.

  28. #98
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Knee jerk reactions as usual.

  29. #99
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Insurance birlin, insurance. (or the lack of it)

  30. #100
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    If there was a disaster plan, as we've had here for decades, then it didn't go into action. I would have thought that by 30 minutes into the fire a major disaster was in the making. Yet nothing, or at least not much.
    The plan was based on the cladding not burning. There are photos of a flat gutted by fire in a different tower block, with the surrounding cladding smoke damaged but unburned.
    That behaviour resulted in the advice to stay put, whilst the concrete walls and floor structure contained the fire.
    Now that the authorities know that corners have been cut in the supply of flammable cladding, thorough investigation and remedial action is underway.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  31. #101
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    The plan was based on the cladding not burning. There are photos of a flat gutted by fire in a different tower block, with the surrounding cladding smoke damaged but unburned.
    That behaviour resulted in the advice to stay put, whilst the concrete walls and floor structure contained the fire.
    Now that the authorities know that corners have been cut in the supply of flammable cladding, thorough investigation and remedial action is underway.
    Oh, so the fires in Dubai provided no indication of what might happen?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  32. #102
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire


    Likely considered too big a political problem to admit to, so they just hoped.
    There's probably a committee somewhere that hasn't met yet.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post

    Likely considered too big a political problem to admit to, so they just hoped.
    There's probably a committee somewhere that hasn't met yet.
    Likely believed that the contractors provided the correct material and fitted it correctly. The enquiries and criminal prosecutions being discussed will establish whether that was so.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  34. #104
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Radio report this morning is that 38 similar buildings across the UK are involved. That is a massive personal, logistical, financial and political problem. This report says 27 towers.

    "At least 27 council-owned high rises across 15 local authorities have failed tests and found to be fitted with similar combustible cladding to that used on Grenfell Tower, it has emerged. Tests revealed blocks across the UK are fitted with flammable panels after a “small number” of samples were analysed, the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) said."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7805176.html

    And his might be the beginning….
    Amongst the comments look at Nina Cumbria re hospitals, and Herma re private business sign off's on some of these projects.


    This is just the tip of the iceberg. Look at this article about a PFI hospital in Carlisle. Not only could this type of cladding be in other buildings but the Carlisle case shows other defects, such as walls designed to stop fires not going about the ceiling level, so basically made to look like they'd do the job from a basic inspection, fire doors labelled above the spec they actually were etc. http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/Ca...7b8708464c4e-d



    This is not just about flammable cladding. This is also about how Private Finance Initiative (PFI) managed to sign off projects and obtain public funds whilst leaving council housing in dangerously defective condition. Rydon's contract to "improve and maintain" these tower blocks runs until 2021.



    Last edited by skuthorp; 06-24-2017 at 05:02 PM.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Whilst PPI has proven to be an (hugely) expensive way to finance projects, it is just that, a way to attract finance. The problems that you highlight lie with unscrupulous building contractors, and underfunded local authorities unable to resource adequate building inspection departments.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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