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Thread: London tower block on fire

  1. #1
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    Default London tower block on fire

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-1...ilding/8617158

    More than 200 firefighters have been called to fight a giant blaze in a high-rise tower block in West London.
    The 27-storey Grenfell Tower on the Lancaster West Estate in North Kensington caught fire around midnight local time.
    The London Fire Brigade said it sent 40 fire engines at the scene of the fire and said all of the building, from the second floor upwards, was ablaze.
    By dawn the flames appeared to have begun to die down but fires were still burning inside.
    More than 200 people live in the tower, but it was not clear how many people were inside.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Shocking. How did it spread so fast? Sprinkler system??
    “What, Me Worry?". -. A. E. Newman

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Found some background info. Problems with wiring in 2013

    https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpres...ing-with-fire/
    “What, Me Worry?". -. A. E. Newman

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    This one will be a terrible fire. 1.00am on a weekday. Most will likely have been home.

    Read Jim's link.

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire




    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Reports here say they are worried it will come down.

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Reports here say they are worried it will come down.
    it's a possibility if the steel support gets hot enough... and it looks like it already is hot enough
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Sadiq Khan now has his moment. Will he seize it or be consumed by it?

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Found some background info. Problems with wiring in 2013

    https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpres...ing-with-fire/
    That's one scary report.
    Prescient.
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Horrific .

    There will be a horrendous number of dead .

    There was no way out for those poor people.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    I get flashbacks to 9/11.

    Here we had a close shave when cheap low rated aluminium skinned foam cladding on a building caught fire. Like this one the fire just shot up the side of the building. Reports of burnt cladding coming down through the smoke. There are an unknown number of buildings here clad with this material which imitates a much more expensive fire proof material. Evidently it's hard to tell them apart without the packing labels. Arguments now here are centred on who will pay to have the dodgy material replaced. I think it is actually illegal to either import or to use this stuff.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I get flashbacks to 9/11.

    Here we had a close shave when cheap low rated aluminium skinned foam cladding on a building caught fire. Like this one the fire just shot up the side of the building. Reports of burnt cladding coming down through the smoke. There are an unknown number of buildings here clad with this material which imitates a much more expensive fire proof material. Evidently it's hard to tell them apart without the packing labels. Arguments now here are centred on who will pay to have the dodgy material replaced. I think it is actually illegal to either import or to use this stuff.
    Yes , cheap imitations look very similar.
    Building inspectors required . Test burn random samples perhaps ???.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    The building has recently been renovated, new cladding. Resident said it felt like plastic.

    Is someone on the plane to Argentina as we speak?

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    prayers for the people of that building...
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    It seems from the live feed the fire services have no way of fighting the fire on the top 12 or so floors.
    It's a situation where bush fire fighting aircraft might have been useful.

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    More from the BBC..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40270582

    Condolences to all involved.
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Found some background info. Problems with wiring in 2013

    https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpres...ing-with-fire/
    From your link.
    Nov 20 2016 - KCTMO – Playing with fire!
    It is our conviction that a serious fire in a tower block or similar high density residential property is the most likely reason that those who wield power at the KCTMO will be found out and brought to justice! The Grenfell Action Group believe that the KCTMO narrowly averted a major fire disaster at Grenfell Tower in 2013 when residents experienced a period of terrifying power surges that were subsequently found to have been caused by faulty wiring. We believe that our attempts to highlight the seriousness of this event were covered up by the KCTMO with the help of the RBKC Scrutiny Committee who refused to investigate the legitimate concerns of tenants and leaseholders.


    It sounds like this property management company (KCTMO) has a history of unsafe conditions at their properties.
    The Grenfell Tower that burned down last night was just renovated and inspected.

    Questions
    1. Has the Property Management Group has been allowed to operate unsafe building ignoring fire safety laws?
    I would check to see if the fire inspectors have been taking bribes to look the other way.
    2. Did someone from the Grenfell Action Group start the fire as a demonstration and it got out of control?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    An escaped resident has said the fire started with a fridge/freezer in one of the flats.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Condolences for those affected by this disaster.


    This reminds me of the Dubai tower fire

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ubai&p=4457655
    Will

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    There are doubts being expressed about the cladding fitted during the refurbishment.

    Much more seriously, there are reports that the Fire Brigade arrived at a time when the fire was confined to one flat, said to have been on the fourth floor, but they seem to have been unable either to fight it effectively or to evacuate the building. If there is any substance in these reports, things look very bad indeed.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  21. #21
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    74 in hospital, 6 confirmed dead. Still damping down, and searching for victims.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  22. #22
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    To update my post above, two things that emerged during the BBC lunchtime current affairs radio programme ("The World at One"):

    The gas main went straight up the main stairwell, which formed the only fire escape from the building, and was not boxed in.

    Standard Fire Brigade advice in tower block fires is "stay in your home and you will be rescued", but this fire was not like any other tower block fires in the UK up to now - it seems to have spread very fast indeed, perhaps through the recently installed "cladding" on the outside of the building.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  23. #23
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Migod, horrifying.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Migod, horrifying.
    Yes. Awful.

    Smoke alarms apparently didn't work. Why didn't sprinkler systems work - or were there none?
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    A major investigation will no doubt follow. Inefficient, or no fire alarms. Inefficient, or no sprinklers. Inefficient, or no inbuilt fire retention (fire resistant floors, walls and doors etc.) The fast rate of spread throughout the building is quite alarming.
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    My best wishes for those affected and injured and my deepest sympathies for those who have perished and their loved ones.
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Yes. Awful.

    Smoke alarms apparently didn't work. Why didn't sprinkler systems work - or were there none?
    There were none. A report, commissioned after the last tower block fire, recommends the installation of sprinklers but the report has been sitting on a shelf in a Minister's office for several years... Likewise, there seem to have been no communal fire alarms - although that seems scarcely credible...
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Everything old is new again.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    There were none. A report, commissioned after the last tower block fire, recommends the installation of sprinklers but the report has been sitting on a shelf in a Minister's office for several years... Likewise, there seem to have been no communal fire alarms - although that seems scarcely credible...
    It would seem to me that some form of fire suppression in a building that tall would be a mandatory requirement for occupancy. I would assume the fact that this is Council housing may have had something to do with that, horrible as it sounds.

    There seems to be plenty of incompetence, ignorance, and just plain blame to go around.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Looking at some helio footage it seems that there are 3 more towers like that in the immediate area. Can we presume that they are all in the same unsafe state?

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    The other things which emerged from the BBC R4 WATO interview were the fact that The Shard is five times as tall, and that the firefighters were unable to operate above the eleventh floor.....
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    London authority admits to breaking fire regulations in years leading up to 2009 incident at Lakanal House that killed six
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...al-house-blaze

    Architect Sam Webb says breaches of fire safety standards in UK are common and lessons from Lakanal House have not been learned..
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...k-tower-blocks
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    The other things which emerged from the BBC R4 WATO interview were the fact that The Shard is five times as tall, and that the firefighters were unable to operate above the eleventh floor.....
    Oh, hell.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  34. #34
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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    Oh hell indeed, there will be hell to pay, or should be after this but from first instance it might be just the beginning.
    I made a cynical remark earlier about the persons with responsibility already being on a plane to Argentina… Maybe several special charters full……..

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    Default Re: London tower block on fire

    The BBC is now reporting 12 fatalities and that this "will sadly increase". My condolences and prayers to those affected.
    On a related point, I thought gas had been banned from tower blocks following the Ronan Point partial collapse many years ago.

    Nick

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