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Thread: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

  1. #36
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    Andrew - From the FWIW department, I went through this whole teak deck thought process about 10 years ago with my Cheoy Lee Lion (your pics look a lot like my boat at the time, though mine may have been worse) and ended up pulling the teak, pulling the sub ply, and going with Dynel/epoxy over new ply. Turned out great, but in retrospect I'm not sure I'd do it that way again. Very expensive, time consuming, and cost me a season, as I recall. And the deterioration that I just knew was killing my boat turned out to exist, but not be nearly as bad as feared. Every situation is different, and I'm no expert, but given another chance with my boat, I'd listen more carefully to the minimalist options some folks had given me. Just food for thought.

    At the time of the Challenger disaster, I had a friend who had recently worked for Morton-Thiokol who told me an interesting backstory to the failed O-rings on the Space Shuttle. It wasn't exactly Morton-Thiokol's engineers' fault. The O-rings' properties were limited by temperature. They were not within specs if the ambient temperature fell below a certain temperature. The morning of the launch was cold and frosty and well below the temperature limit. Reagan's State of the Union Address was scheduled for that night and the White House wanted to be able to have him talk about how wonderful it was to send the first teacher into space and all that ballyhoo. NASA was under a lot of pressure to make sure the launch went ahead on schedule and, as is customary with the government, that pressure ran downhill. The rank and file guys at Morton-Thiokol said, "No way, it's too cold for launch." but the "suits" wanted to keep NASA happy and said "Go ahead, we think it will be okay." Reagan didn't get to crow about the first teacher in space.

    As it turned out decades later, his story was publicly confirmed. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...blames-himself
    Oh, and if you're looking for a great read on Space Shuttle disasters (in this case Columbia), read Comm Check by William Harwood. Fascinating.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bark View Post
    Andrew - From the FWIW department, I went through this whole teak deck thought process about 10 years ago with my Cheoy Lee Lion (your pics look a lot like my boat at the time, though mine may have been worse) and ended up pulling the teak, pulling the sub ply, and going with Dynel/epoxy over new ply. Turned out great, but in retrospect I'm not sure I'd do it that way again. Very expensive, time consuming, and cost me a season, as I recall. And the deterioration that I just knew was killing my boat turned out to exist, but not be nearly as bad as feared. Every situation is different, and I'm no expert, but given another chance with my boat, I'd listen more carefully to the minimalist options some folks had given me. Just food for thought.



    Oh, and if you're looking for a great read on Space Shuttle disasters (in this case Columbia), read Comm Check by William Harwood. Fascinating.
    Thanks. That's very helpful. I have a bad patch at the bow, and some leaks around the edges of the deck in way of stanchion bases that have "pulled".

    My minimalist option is therefore to rip out the bad place at the bow, scarph in new and lay new teak there, remove the guard wire stanchions, pulpit and pushpit, soak the affected parts in something suitable, re-bed them on teak pads, and re-do the loose black gloop in the seams.

    Next step up from that involves removing the laminated toe rail, resealing the deck edge and re-fitting to brackets clear of the deck.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  3. #38
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    If your bulwarks are glass you will have a very convenient and structurally sound place to terminate your sheathing if you decide to go that route.
    Im not advocating sheathing, just making an observation...

  4. #39
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    If your bulwarks are glass you will have a very convenient and structurally sound place to terminate your sheathing if you decide to go that route.
    I'm not advocating sheathing, just making an observation...
    They aren't! I'll post a better picture at the weekend. Basically the beam shelf is bolted through to the toe rail and the ply is trapped by the toe rail, then the bulwark is screwed into the beam shelf.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  5. #40
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    ...Bituthene 2000... It's an industrial roofing material that comes on a roll...
    For those in the US, this sounds like the product "Grace Ice and Water Shield".

    Ken

  6. #41
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Thanks. That's very helpful. I have a bad patch at the bow, and some leaks around the edges of the deck in way of stanchion bases that have "pulled".

    My minimalist option is therefore to rip out the bad place at the bow, scarph in new and lay new teak there, remove the guard wire stanchions, pulpit and pushpit, soak the affected parts in something suitable, re-bed them on teak pads, and re-do the loose black gloop in the seams.

    Next step up from that involves removing the laminated toe rail, resealing the deck edge and re-fitting to brackets clear of the deck.
    Sounds like your deck is nowhere near as bad as mine. Your minimalist option makes a lot of sense. I'd search up that aviation goop likely to be much better quality than anything you will find in a modern ships chandler, auto supply or hardware store.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    Quote Originally Posted by IHWillys View Post
    For those in the US, this sounds like the product "Grace Ice and Water Shield".

    Ken
    I think it comes out of the US as the roll is 6 foot wide, rather than a metric size.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #43
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    Another blast from the past ... when I was considering my deck issues, a product called Coelan kept popping up in discussion. I believe it was a clear, elastic substance (thicker than varnish) that would be slathered over the deck, up the bulwarks, etc. and would prevent water intrusion of any kind. The look on teak decks would be as if they had been varnished, though Coelan supposedly provided a rubbery, non-skid surface. My memory is that it was more popular - and therefore more readily available - in Europe than in the U.S.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bark View Post
    Another blast from the past ... when I was considering my deck issues, a product called Coelan kept popping up in discussion. I believe it was a clear, elastic substance (thicker than varnish) that would be slathered over the deck, up the bulwarks, etc. and would prevent water intrusion of any kind. The look on teak decks would be as if they had been varnished, though Coelan supposedly provided a rubbery, non-skid surface. My memory is that it was more popular - and therefore more readily available - in Europe than in the U.S.
    Coelan is definitely under consideration. I got Mirelle's "real" teak decks from the 1930's stabilised in the sense that nothing was rotting or not properly fastened and gave the decks six coats of Coelan in 1995 and her new owner reports that she is still bone dry below decks, today. In her case I painted over the Coelan with deck paint, as I had doubts about the UV resistance and the decks were not so pretty anyway, but with Sunbeam I may sand them to fresh colour and then apply Coelan and live with teh varnished deck effect.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  10. #45
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    Marmalade's deck was like that. Water gets in and there were areas where at least a ply or two of the underlying plywood had turned to mush. I reefed all those silly phony seams and during a hot dry spell irrigated the deck with acetone every day or so. Once thoroughly dry, I sluiced it repeatedly with CPES. I think I used a good three gallons to make an epoxy/cellulose thing. Then I applied SaniTred, the undercoat of which filled the reefed seams. If you're happy to not have a phony teak deck and don't want the expense of replacing all that rotten plywood, this is the cost-effective way to go.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    Interesting Ian, I'm inclined to remove my teak, cut out any damaged ply and scarf in new, and then put something rubbery, maybe sanitred, maybe truck bed liner, maybe bathroom membrane, but maybe glass in epoxy, over that. The rubbery solutions somehow feel like second best to "proper" glass in epoxy, but I wonder if their flexibility might be a genuine advantage. It seems to me that no matter how one tries, there's always going to be that little bit of movement at some highly stressed fittings.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    Marmalade's deck is really all ply with a teak veneer, not a plywood substrate with teak laid over.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    Sounds like a very fine distinction. I've never really known a ply/teak deck where the teak is any more than decoration.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: I have a forty year old teak over ply deck. It's not bad. But, seriously...

    I remember being impressed with the Sanitred sample I received. They sent me a small bottle of the stuff along with a bag of non-slip granules, which looked/felt like chopped up rubber bands. I mixed the stuff all together and painted a sample board - nice result. The tan color was very attractive and the cushioned feel underfoot was great. Come to think of it, I may look for an opportunity to use it some day on my new boat.

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