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Thread: Voyages of Arawana

  1. #3641
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    I put a huge fleming major in the back of my 26 footer. It put the stern down a few inches but it worked a treat for a simglehanded Tasman crossing midwinter.

    So I wouldn't be to worried about that big atoms/navik thingy on the stern. Tuck it in as close and as high as you can and go sailing.

  2. #3642
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    I've been ruminating on the manual bilge pump and the fact that it has a priming problem and a few other things of concern with it. Today Matt and I had a good look at it and the cast aluminium body basically fell to powder pieces. I've ordered a new one.


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  3. #3643
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    In his book, Calder recommends connecting a bilge pump to the engine. Having pumped quite a bit of water out of Masina's bilges lately, as I've been cleaning, I think that's really the only way you could really pump out a boat in an emergency situation, unless you had plenty of crew. Manual pumping wears you out pretty quickly. Of course you need a manual pump but a high capacity engine-driven or electric pump is pretty important, I think. My manual pumps are plastic and work well. Never any issue with self-priming. Jabsco and Whale, I think.

    By the way, there are a couple of furlers on Gumtree now.

    Rick

  4. #3644
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    Arawana has two electric pumps and will have the new manual one, plus a backup manual pump. I'll look into a pump on an engine take-off.


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  5. #3645
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    I can't help thinking that a high capacity electric one is probably just as good and probably a lot cheaper. If the engine's running, it's generating current, ordinarily. If the engine's not running, you can still run the electric one while you have battery power. Just a thought.

    Rick

  6. #3646
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    Ok, I'll have more thoughts on it then.


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  7. #3647
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    I might have already told the story. When I bought my big steel boat I had someone sail it around to Sydney for me, then I hopped aboard for the sail up to PNG. When the delivery skipper headed out from Adelaide she was motoring at 7 or 8 knots direct into quite a steep sea. Green water rolling over the foredeck and unbeknownst to her, down the waterproof dorade style engine room vents on the front of the cabin. Somehow she eventually noticed that the boat was half full of water. The fairly high capacity electric pump and its float switch had been cleverly mounted on a bit of ply and dropped into the bilge, below the drive shaft. As it was unable to keep up with the incoming water, it floated up. It's wires got tangled around the shaft, and worked their way into the gearbox seal, which promptly dropped a whole lot of oil into the bilge. Skipper, having realised the boat is full of water, turned on the jabsco engine driven pump, which promptly seized up, as the rubber impeller expanded in contact with oil. Eventually she pulled into the tiny little harbour built to shelter the launch ramp down near Port Stanvac, and called emergency services who brought out a Honda emergency pump and pumped the boat out. Anyway, the moral of the story is, secure your electric pump, and get a nitrile impeller for your engine driven pump.

  8. #3648
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    Default Voyages of Arawana

    I got the new replacement manual bilge pump this morning. It really sucks. It blows too. It's rated at 900 gph whatever that translates to in actual water pumped when it counts

    I ended up buying a plastic body pump this time. It seems to be built pretty well and it should be self priming without too much drama so long as the draw pipe down into the bilge is intact. It seems to be but an inspection is in order.




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    Last edited by brucemoffatt; 03-27-2018 at 09:51 PM.
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  9. #3649
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    They seem to be pretty reliable.


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  10. #3650
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    Masina's manual pump pumps directly into the water and is joined with a Y-valve to the sink outlet, so you can pump out either the sink or the bilge. I can understand it because it avoids having an exposed hole in the side of the boat and breakfast leavings decorating the topsides but it makes it much harder to pump water out when you really need to. One day I'm going to change it. I've already set up another manual bilge pump in the cockpit and I'm going to drain that to the topsides. When I install a big electric pump, I'll drain that to the same skin fitting in the topsides. It doesn't look great but, with an old boat, I think it's reasonable to forgo aesthetics for common sense sometimes. So, my suggestion is to set up your bilge pump so that it drains to an outlet above the water line, not below. Is that possible?

    Rick

  11. #3651
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    Bruce,
    As long as the rubber parts are OK, that old Whale Gusher 10 may be worth fettling . Do you know any classic motor cycle enthusiasts who could do a FOC bead blast on it for you?

  12. #3652
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Masina's manual pump pumps directly into the water and is joined with a Y-valve to the sink outlet, so you can pump out either the sink or the bilge. I can understand it because it avoids having an exposed hole in the side of the boat and breakfast leavings decorating the topsides but it makes it much harder to pump water out when you really need to. One day I'm going to change it. I've already set up another manual bilge pump in the cockpit and I'm going to drain that to the topsides. When I install a big electric pump, I'll drain that to the same skin fitting in the topsides. It doesn't look great but, with an old boat, I think it's reasonable to forgo aesthetics for common sense sometimes. So, my suggestion is to set up your bilge pump so that it drains to an outlet above the water line, not below. Is that possible?

    Rick


    Yes to an outlet above the waterline, sort of. The existing plumbed outlet is above the waterline unless the boat is seriously sinking. It would be a significant issue if the boat was low enough in the water that the outlet was covered.


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  13. #3653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil C View Post
    Bruce,
    As long as the rubber parts are OK, that old Whale Gusher 10 may be worth fettling . Do you know any classic motor cycle enthusiasts who could do a FOC bead blast on it for you?


    Hi Neil. The aluminium body is seriously degraded unfortunately. The rubber bellows isn't too bad but the valves are shot and the body is crumbly. I tried to revive it twice but I have had to give up in the interest of having a pump that works. It's a great pity though.

    By the way, I'm not sure if you saw my last post about the wind-vane but I'm about to make a ply OGT vane from Belcher's info to try. The stick loads on Arawana are pretty small when the sails are reasonably balanced so I'm interested to see how that works.


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  14. #3654
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    Bruce, great that you are going for an OGT. Plenty of working examples on a variety of yachts. A friend had success on his van der Stadt Buccaneer.

  15. #3655
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    Default Voyages of Arawana

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil C View Post
    Bruce, great that you are going for an OGT. Plenty of working examples on a variety of yachts. A friend had success on his van der Stadt Buccaneer.
    Thanks Neil, I was hoping you'd respond, and I'm really pleased that you have a positive opinion about the possibility of making it work, and the examples that you are aware of that have worked.

    I've been a bit put off by how little traction the idea has gained in some books, articles and the like, and I can't help thinking that not enough credit is given, and possibly not enough effort and design nous has been applied, especially since sheet to tiller and lashed tiller do seem to come close. I have a possibly brilliant idea about augmenting the forces on the control lines without having to resort to a secondary system like a servo pendulum. I'll hold that thought for now until I actually try a model of the system in light wind strengths, just because I might become embarrassed about how dumb it might turn out to be. But wish me luck with it anyway and I'll fill you in soon. 😊
    Last edited by brucemoffatt; 03-29-2018 at 05:10 AM.
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  16. #3656
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    Jobs of the day:

    Manual bilge pump install and test, done.

    Solar panel controller replaced.

    Second electrical bilge pump to be replaced, not completed, profanity level exceeded. To be continued.






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  17. #3657
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    So with those controllers, (and I can't see the wires heading off to your battery) is the idea that you take all load, other than the starter I guess, from the load terminals? I see you just have a 12 volt plug there at the moment. Is there any problem, when retrofitting solar to an existing system, in taking your load directly from the batteries? I think that the load supply on the controller will cut out if voltage drops below a preset level, saving your batteries from getting over drained. I think I read that somewhere. But would you want to run something like an inverter, which uses big wires and has a hefty appetite, through the load terminals? And let's just say you have an engine battery, and say 3 house batteries, how do you send the right amounts of power to each of those?
    Last edited by Phil Y; 04-01-2018 at 05:13 PM.

  18. #3658
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    I have no idea how it's actually all wired in at the moment because we did an emergency swap in to replace the old controller which appears to be failing. We're still discussing how to rewire the boat. All I'm sure about is that the rewire will bring much simplification.


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  19. #3659
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    I thought the controller only controlled the charging of the battery from the panels. Does it do other things?

    Rick

  20. #3660
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I thought the controller only controlled the charging of the battery from the panels. Does it do other things?

    Rick


    In a simple system the solar controller is intended and designed to have a central role as charge control and charge distribution management, to ensure battery health and supply stability.

    In a typical cruising yacht system there are quite a few things that over-ride that purpose, like switchable direct access to the batteries for bilge pumps and other devices, switchable isolation of batteries based on battery type - crank or deep cycle. As well there is often a panoply if charge input types such as solar and wind generation, shore power, engine alternator and sometimes possibly others, with switchable combinations of isolation and routing. There's the possibility of additional battery storage types on top of the traditional lead acid variants. So the design intention that the solar charge controller is a central charge, supply and battery health management device is often overridden, making human intervention mandatory for those functions. Which is fine if you live aboard and are always there to intervene.

    In short (ha ha) the additional burden of age-induced electrical entropy is enough to ensure marine expletivation.


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  21. #3661
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I thought the controller only controlled the charging of the battery from the panels. Does it do other things?

    Rick
    The one I put in our caravan has a controlled output, that has its own low voltage dropout setting (disables output if battery voltage drops too low). It can also be set to turn the output of automatically a preset period after sunset, so you can't leave the lights on all night - probably less useful on a boat. The only thing I actually run off it is a small inverter, where the low voltage dropout feature stops it flattening the battery.

    Pete
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  22. #3662
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    I really thought these controllers just made sure you didn't overcharge the battery. Blimey! I don't want Hal or Holly on my boat!! I'll see what very simple controllers might be available ......

    Rick

  23. #3663
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    You don't have to use the output. What are you doing, Rick?
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  24. #3664
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    If you want to save your batteries from being cooked or drained flat, both of which kill your batteries, find a way to use the controller. If you only want to save your batteries from being cooked but you don't care about flattening them, use the controller and only use the 'load control' function for some of the outlets. If you definitely want to run the risk of killing the batteries by draining them, don't use the 'load control' for anything. There's a good buck to be made selling marine batteries at $250+ apiece.

    There's a good argument to be made for completely separating the bilge pumps' power supply, including a small solar charger, controller and Lion battery pack. I know it sounds like a mess, but it ain't 1953 any more and we are bombarded with great new opportunities and choices. Unfortunately there's also a gazillion strong opinions on what a good system looks like. Arawana's isn't a good system, but possibly may eventually get there.


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  25. #3665
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    Well, I don't have a set view on what system I want yet, except that I want it to be as simple as possible. Masina currently has just a start battery and a house battery. The automatic bilge pump is connected directly to the house battery. The only electronics are radio and depth sounder. But I'm going to add a chartplotter, electric windlass and a portable fridge. I plan to have two solar panels and a second house battery. I won't run the fridge all the time but I do want to be sable to leave it running for weeks at a time, from time to time.

    I'm not opposed to having the controller managing output, battery state etc. Sounds very sensible to me! I do want the system to be able to be maintained and installed entirely by me but I'm very happy to have advice, guidance etc. I should add that it's a bit academic now because I have a new engine to install first, so it won't be until later this year that I'll get to wiring and installing new gear. I already have the chartplotter and windlass, both new, but in a cupboard. I haven't bought the fridge or panels yet. Or controller/s!

    Rick

  26. #3666
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Well, I don't have a set view on what system I want yet, except that I want it to be as simple as possible. Masina currently has just a start battery and a house battery. The automatic bilge pump is connected directly to the house battery. The only electronics are radio and depth sounder. But I'm going to add a chartplotter, electric windlass and a portable fridge. I plan to have two solar panels and a second house battery. I won't run the fridge all the time but I do want to be sable to leave it running for weeks at a time, from time to time.

    I'm not opposed to having the controller managing output, battery state etc. Sounds very sensible to me! I do want the system to be able to be maintained and installed entirely by me but I'm very happy to have advice, guidance etc. I should add that it's a bit academic now because I have a new engine to install first, so it won't be until later this year that I'll get to wiring and installing new gear. I already have the chartplotter and windlass, both new, but in a cupboard. I haven't bought the fridge or panels yet. Or controller/s!

    Rick
    I believe you have all of the important components for sucess - a clear view of the requirements, and the time to decide how to translate the requirements into a technical solution.
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  27. #3667
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    edited
    I've been a bit put off by how little traction the idea [vane to tiller self steering] has gained in some books, articles and the like, and I can't help thinking that not enough credit is given, and possibly not enough effort and design nous has been applied. I have a possibly brilliant idea about augmenting the forces on the control lines without having to resort to a secondary system like a servo pendulum. I'll hold that thought for now...
    I have to ignore my own judgement, and share my thoughts on how I am intending to proceed with experimenting with a vane-to-tiller system. I need to articulate my thoughts, both to help clarify them in my mind, and to try to get enough interest here to get the great power of the interweb hive-mind applied to the proposal.

    I've decided to try to make a working version of a vane to tiller self-steering system. Belcher has good info. Others have built working examples, see below, yet Belcher states the limitations, as does the maker of the Aristo system, i.e. that it works for small boats with light helms and well balanced sail setup, and not very well in light winds.

    What I haven't seen so far, and I may well have missed, is a well designed vane blade, designed to maximise the available wind forces, and if possible augment them by applying wing technology. The Aristo system 2017 version has air dams on the training edges of the vane blade, but they seem crudely designed and applied.

    There is a wealth of information about wing design, including airfoil shapes for low speed airfoils, light wing
    structure construction, airfoil controls and other things.

    My proposl is to build a simple vane support mechanism to attach to the pushpit of a sailing boat, in this case Arawana, supporting a symetrical airfoil vane blade, and using a gravity-activated gurney flap to augment the lift forces on the blade.

    The vane will be made up of a number of cedar airfoil secions, shaped to NACA 0012 symetrical airfoil shape. The airfoil shapes will be mounted at 100mm spacings onto two tubular spars of lightweight material. Expanded foam, hot-wire cut to profile, will by used to infil between the airfoil shapes. The airfoil will be covered in a plastic film, possibly mylar.

    At the trailing edge of the vane a pivoting flat blade will be mounted, for the whole span of the vane. A conterweight at each end of the vane, top and bottom, will swing under gravitational forces, to place a gurney flap of 2% to 4% of wing chord (to be determined by experiment) into the pressure side of the wing profile of the vane.

    References:
    Bill Belcher, Wind-Vane Self-Steering

    Gurney Flap
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurney_flap

    Aristo Timone a Vento http://www.aristotimone.it/

    Last edited by brucemoffatt; 04-02-2018 at 04:41 AM. Reason: for clarity
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  28. #3668
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    Matt and I tried out a tender for size on the foredeck. That just confirmed that the tender should be 2.1 metres long.




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  29. #3669
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    That doesn't look too bad to me. Any tender on your foredeck is going to be in the way. That one sits reasonably low, and leaves a bit of room either side to clamber about. Not bad.

  30. #3670
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    Arawana has two electric pumps and will have the new manual one, plus a backup manual pump. I'll look into a pump on an engine take-off.


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    I just noticed this talk of pumps, an engine mounted plastic bodied pump always appealed to me, something like this.

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  31. #3671
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    Matt and I tried out a tender for size on the foredeck. That just confirmed that the tender should be 2.1 metres long.




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    a
    A three point sling with a block and tackle off the spare halyard or similar will make launch and retrieval quite easy.
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  32. #3672
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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    a
    A three point sling with a block and tackle off the spare halyard or similar will make launch and retrieval quite easy.


    It would, but that's not the one I'm looking for. I've started looking at rotomoulded polyethylene, like the way they make kayaks. The whaly brand has some good looking models, but they skip the size that would do the job. Polycraft start too big and go bigger from there. I'm still looking.


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  33. #3673
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    Where's Whaly?

    Rick

  34. #3674
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Where's Whaly?

    Rick


    Perth


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  35. #3675
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    Default Re: Voyages of Arawana

    Plastic dinghies and kayaks are quite heavy. Why not make one from foam and glass? A simple stitch and glue pram, and use very light ply or foam sheet. I've already got a dinghy for Masina but one day I intend to replicate it with a foam one. The stuff is so light but strong.

    Rick

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