Page 13 of 13 FirstFirst ... 31213
Results 421 to 439 of 439

Thread: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

  1. #421
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,449

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Better boat, better sailed. Maybe. If you know your boat is slower and you simply follow the leader then you know you'll lose. So you have to push the limits, risk mistakes etc. That way you'll probably lose but not definitely.

    Rick
    Rick, it is next to impossible to get by someone who is in front of you in such a short race. The old Olympic courses were 12 miles long and you could get by people. In the two or three mile races we usually sail now the race is over halfway up the first beat.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  2. #422
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Shubenacadie NS
    Posts
    3,591

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    Are we suggesting changing from carbon foilers around a 3 mile course to sovereign of the seas and other clippers around the world races? I'm all for it. Happy to crew for one too.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  3. #423
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Whangarei New Zealand
    Posts
    380

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    Considering the talk about national input and relevance in winning the cup, it might be worthwhile to think of it as a competition contested by countries across the seas and this I think should be continued in pretty much the spirit of the original event.
    America sailed on her own bottom, rigged to handle all weather conditions to the contest and won the cup.
    The off-water sideshow (rule fiddling and court battles) became the norm at about the same time that flying to and from the competition started.
    For a change, wouldn’t it do to get back to where sailing is what it is all about?

    Just build the boats in the representative or competing countries and sail them to the holder’s chosen competition venue.
    Make-up of crew nationality is not an issue.
    Going forward as a truly global competition, it would be enough of a national achievement to put the boat and crew together. Hell, we already have ETNZ, so countries are free to team up if they want.
    Of course in this latter instance there was a foiling machine, or a plane which could not fly properly, flown across to Bermuda, whereas a genuine sailing competition type Americas Cup would have had an ETNZ entry sail there……..But, Bermuda never held the Cup, even though Ellison might have been able to set it up so that team USABermuda might have been a possibility……opportunity lost I suppose.

    For ETNZ or any other team sailing to Bermuda would be fine; Any journey half way around the world would achieve the same end in terms of qualification as a sailing craft…….. if the intention was to keep the America aspect of the competition relevant.

    Otherwise the trend along surface bound “flight” path limits looks to be done, although, maybe more cyclors on high octane dope could possibly get the wing pumping some more, which along with a more aerodynamic housing of the the cyclor team might show a bit more velocity.

    Already we see the ability to maintain stability without crew movement across the deck...... when the water is pancake flat and wind is neither too much or too little, in other words the usual conditions for the last few defence encounters, but which is hopefully a thing of the past.
    Last edited by Lugalong; 07-08-2017 at 07:13 PM.

  4. #424
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    22,653

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    The Deed of Gift is for a competition between yacht clubs, not countries. Private organizations. Always has been. Period. End of story. It's up to the clubs involved to determine how the event is run. Whinging about it all is fine and has always gone on, but it's a private affair. If commercial corporations, national governments (and their taxpayers) want to get involved with financial and technological aspects for promotional prestige they are welcome to, but their negotiating powers will be limited.
    "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

    -Mark Twain

  5. #425
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    42,414

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    Indeed, and of course the Olympic ideal was about competing, and individual AMATEUR competitors. Corruption started when Nationalist prestige reared it's ugly head closely followed by money and advertising.
    Of course the AC is afflicted by the same thing but at least (and I am not a fan) it's a case of fools and their money….as long as it's not tax deductible as 'promotion' and public money is NOT involved.

  6. #426
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,101

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    I agree in many ways, Lug, but sailing a boat to the venue on its own bottom isn't a fair test these days. For a start, it's obviously a completely different thing to sail from Australia to NZ to challenge for the Cup than it is to sail from England to NZ to challenge. Imagine if the Italians won and the French just had to launch at Mentone (1 km from the Italian border) and then crawl along the coast to Nice? A Kiwi boat would have a huge disadvantage.

    The other thing of course is that there'd have to be complex restrictions on how much the boat could be altered after it arrived at its destination. If you had a seaworthy 100' quadramaran that you sailed to the venue, once you arrived could you chop off two hulls and the connecting structure and be left with an 90' lightweight cat?

  7. #427
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    42,414

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    Of course you could just produce boat drawings and let the lawyers make all the decisions about who had won……………..

  8. #428
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Deer Isle, Maine
    Posts
    1,056

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    The Deed of Gift is for a competition between yacht clubs, not countries. Private organizations. Always has been. Period. End of story. It's up to the clubs involved to determine how the event is run. Whinging about it all is fine and has always gone on, but it's a private affair. If commercial corporations, national governments (and their taxpayers) want to get involved with financial and technological aspects for promotional prestige they are welcome to, but their negotiating powers will be limited.
    ^+1

  9. #429
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Whangarei New Zealand
    Posts
    380

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    I agree in many ways, Lug, but sailing a boat to the venue on its own bottom isn't a fair test these days. For a start, it's obviously a completely different thing to sail from Australia to NZ to challenge for the Cup than it is to sail from England to NZ to challenge. Imagine if the Italians won and the French just had to launch at Mentone (1 km from the Italian border) and then crawl along the coast to Nice? A Kiwi boat would have a huge disadvantage.

    The other thing of course is that there'd have to be complex restrictions on how much the boat could be altered after it arrived at its destination. If you had a seaworthy 100' quadramaran that you sailed to the venue, once you arrived could you chop off two hulls and the connecting structure and be left with an 90' lightweight cat?
    Leaving aside the possibility of a legal wrangle to determine things, but so far it looks as though we have the makings of a friendly contest between ‘clubs of different countries’ lined up, as per the deed of gift and maybe this really is the “ end of story”.

    I’m not holding my breath to see if there will be real sailing boats competing, because Ellison and Coutts may get lawyers fighting to maintain this idea of a foiling contraption qualifying as a yacht.

    I did read something about the deed calling for a hull designed and built in the country of the challenging club, so am hoping that there will be boats to see in Auckland in the coming years.
    Whether these boats are shipped here or sailed from Australia is not an issue, although, I realize that it would be more practical to have them all sailed over from Australia as a qualifier.
    Shipping from country of origin to Australia is surely no problem.

    What I want to see is sailing boats in the water, even if they are not all wooden boats.
    There will be the J class ones and there is space for many other classes too along the quays, on moorings and on anchor round and about.
    There is not much space for hangars around the Waitemata, so the flying circus would be better off over near the airport in South Auckland, if the aerospace engineers simply need to have their creations showcased. They could even start their own cup competition to achieve cyclor powered flight, and they could enjoy tacking duels on the runway before takeoff with spectacular crashes filmed for TV audiences.

  10. #430
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Adelaide, Aust.
    Posts
    134

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    Right on. What is this thing about water anyway...

  11. #431
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    42,414

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugalong View Post
    Leaving aside the possibility of a legal wrangle to determine things, but so far it looks as though we have the makings of a friendly contest between ‘clubs of different countries’ lined up, as per the deed of gift and maybe this really is the “ end of story”.

    I’m not holding my breath to see if there will be real sailing boats competing, because Ellison and Coutts may get lawyers fighting to maintain this idea of a foiling contraption qualifying as a yacht.

    I did read something about the deed calling for a hull designed and built in the country of the challenging club, so am hoping that there will be boats to see in Auckland in the coming years.
    Whether these boats are shipped here or sailed from Australia is not an issue, although, I realize that it would be more practical to have them all sailed over from Australia as a qualifier.
    Shipping from country of origin to Australia is surely no problem.

    What I want to see is sailing boats in the water, even if they are not all wooden boats.
    There will be the J class ones and there is space for many other classes too along the quays, on moorings and on anchor round and about.
    There is not much space for hangars around the Waitemata, so the flying circus would be better off over near the airport in South Auckland, if the aerospace engineers simply need to have their creations showcased. They could even start their own cup competition to achieve cyclor powered flight, and they could enjoy tacking duels on the runway before takeoff with spectacular crashes filmed for TV audiences.
    As I said before "Of course you could just produce boat drawings and let the lawyers make all the decisions about who had won…………….."

  12. #432
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    PNW, an island west of Seattle
    Posts
    1,144

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    To recapture the interest of the general sailing public, America's Cup needs to get real. To this end, I propose that they quit squabbling about the kind of boat sailed and, instead, concentrate on the venue. I don't know what other's experiences are, but in my neck of the water woods I have to contend with all manner of rude, inconsiderate, mouth-breathers driving their motor craft. So let's allow the AC spectator fleet to get up close and personal. Open the course. Just imagine a big ol' Bayliner or somesuch plowing through, crossing in front of the AC boats, without any regard for rules of the road. The AC boats would have to be designed with all this chaos in mind. Forget foils... they'll need brakes!

    A crazy notion for sure. But think of the viewer interest.

    Jeff

  13. #433
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    19,596

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    To recapture the interest of the general sailing public, America's Cup needs to get real. To this end, I propose that they quit squabbling about the kind of boat sailed and, instead, concentrate on the venue. I don't know what other's experiences are, but in my neck of the water woods I have to contend with all manner of rude, inconsiderate, mouth-breathers driving their motor craft. So let's allow the AC spectator fleet to get up close and personal. Open the course. Just imagine a big ol' Bayliner or somesuch plowing through, crossing in front of the AC boats, without any regard for rules of the road. The AC boats would have to be designed with all this chaos in mind. Forget foils... they'll need brakes!

    A crazy notion for sure. But think of the viewer interest.

    Jeff
    Cool! Crashes! Watch 'em 3 times more in slow motion...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  14. #434
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    19,486

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    To recapture the interest of the general sailing public, America's Cup needs to get real. To this end, I propose that they quit squabbling about the kind of boat sailed and, instead, concentrate on the venue. I don't know what other's experiences are, but in my neck of the water woods I have to contend with all manner of rude, inconsiderate, mouth-breathers driving their motor craft. So let's allow the AC spectator fleet to get up close and personal. Open the course. Just imagine a big ol' Bayliner or somesuch plowing through, crossing in front of the AC boats, without any regard for rules of the road. The AC boats would have to be designed with all this chaos in mind. Forget foils... they'll need brakes!

    A crazy notion for sure. But think of the viewer interest.

    Jeff
    You can see that with the Bahamian A raters. Each boat has a support motor boat. I saw one P/S situation, the Starboard tack boat caught the end of the boom of the port tack boat. The port tack boat already bearing away, pulled the starboard tack boat over and sunk it. The sunk boats, support motor boat crew were so incensed, that they T boned the port tacker, really hard.

  15. #435
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Port Stephens
    Posts
    15,212

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    There used to be a Little America's Cup specifically for multihulls. There were some interesting boats in that and it was fun to follow. Innovators could try things out without the huge costs and legal nonsense. But the AC taking on these really stupid boats means that the LAC now seems to have no place.

    The most exciting short course racing I've seen in recent years was the Elliots at the Olympics a while ago. I'd like to see more focus on one-design racing like that and the AC to fade away as it should have long ago when they abandoned good boats.

    Rick

  16. #436
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    22,653

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    The International C-Class competitions (pretty much successor to the LAC) aren't all that inexpensive to campaign and have, as stated above, diminished: http://www.c-class.org/class-history/:
    "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

    -Mark Twain

  17. #437
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,449

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    One of our members here (though a very occasional poster) has run several of those LAC campaigns.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  18. #438
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Port Stephens
    Posts
    15,212

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    They were often very expensive boats, of course, but nothing like the expense of the AC boats, their professional crews, campaign teams etc. But yes, expensive nevertheless.

    Rick

  19. #439
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,449

    Default Re: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

    Built 'in country' limitations and nationality rules are being rumored today. I haven't had time to delve into it but it seems as if New Zealand wants to change things somewhat. Which I don't mind at all. I just wish they (the different holders of the Cup) would settle on something and leave it there for a little while.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •