Page 1 of 13 1211 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 439

Thread: America's cup / Louis Vuitton

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    19,592

    Default America's cup / Louis Vuitton


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    22,807

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Glad no one was hurt.
    "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

    -Mark Twain

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,563

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    I enjoyed the racing tremendously. Everyone but France looks competitive and dangerous. I was surprised at all the talk about BAR being slow, but Ben definitely flubbed that move at the start against Barker. Personally I think that he was surprised at how SoftBank accelerated up to him and then just killed their speed. You'd have to believe that Sir Ben has seen everything in over 20 years of world class sailing, but everyone is human.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    21,754

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    Not sure GB deserved the penalty. Softbank could have avoided the collision. Seeking a foul in 12 meters going 7 knots is a little different than the physics we're seeing here, and people need to be more careful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,563

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    I agree with that one, John. I am not sure Ben had time to respond, which means that Barker purposely initiated an unavoidable contact, which makes him the guilty party, not Ben.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Oriental, NC USA
    Posts
    3,989

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    For the first time in a couple years, it was fun to watch. Definitely not as exciting as San Francisco in wind or course layout. Seemed to be an absence of current variation, if any, to me. Difficult to tell upwind from down in the light wind. Visual arrows of wind direction would have helped a bit. Announcers seemed to be very confused about the speed of the boats. The visual showed speed in KMH and the announcers gave the same numbers in knots. Really bad as the speed was obviously rally in KMH and was mostly less than 20MPH. Bow down attitude of the boats looked strange.

    Not really complaints, just things I noticed.

    My TV and eyes combined to see km instead of kn which I was able to see this morning on the computer. Macular degeneration at work again.
    Last edited by Tom Lathrop; 05-28-2017 at 08:59 AM.
    Tom L

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,563

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    What did you think of the cyclists, and the fact that there are guys grinding the whole race without stopping? I understand that those guys are pressuring up hydraulics or something like that?

    Fun stuff to watch, these 20 minute races.

    Oh, and it was an especially tough day for Ben: not only did they break the boat, but Chelsea lost in the FA Cup final.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    21,754

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by bamamick View Post
    I agree with that one, John. I am not sure Ben had time to respond, which means that Barker purposely initiated an unavoidable contact, which makes him the guilty party, not Ben.

    Mickey Lake
    Never been a fan of luffing, anyhow. I guess it's possible that the contact was avoidable, but it sure looked unavoidable to me. Is Softbank down on speed? That might explain the tactic.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mountain lakes of Vermont
    Posts
    9,376

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Is this being televised or just streaming online?
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,606

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Is there a video feed where you can watch what you want to see and skip the rest? The NBC playback is totally frustrating -- more ads than coverage, and once the ads kick in there doesn't seem to be any way to jump ahead. They even ran the ads over the start of one race. I get the replay feed free via my RCN account, but it's not worth a penny.
    -Dave

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    121

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Thought the overtaking boat lost luffi g rights unless more than two boat lenghts to leeward?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sound Beach, NY
    Posts
    3,156

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Is this being televised or just streaming online?
    I've been watching some of it live on NBCSportsNetwork.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Deer Isle, Maine
    Posts
    1,114

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Is this being televised or just streaming online?
    If you have cable or satellite, it's on the NBC Sports station. I have Time Warner(Spectrum) and it's channel 63 or 314. Starts at 1:00 PM.

    Sorry, John!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Deer Isle, Maine
    Posts
    1,114

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    [QUOTE=Tom Lathrop; ... Definitely not as exciting as San Francisco in wind or course layout. Seemed to be an absence of current variation...[/QUOTE]
    I wonder if the current as any effect when up on the foils all the time?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Whangarei, New Zealand
    Posts
    967

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    The speeds we are getting in New Zealand coverage care of Sky sport are definite in knots. Saw a few 40's. Looked to be 15-25 up hill and 25-35 down hill and max speeds on the reaching legs at the start and finish.

    That's 2 hits to BAR, today on Japan and last week on the kiwi's.
    I think he was caught out with a foil stall as the boat dropped quite sudden down on to barkers crew.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,563

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    France has not had enough time sailing these boats.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sound Beach, NY
    Posts
    3,156

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    They are getting some good practice right now.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,563

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    They hit a couple of nice shifts, but their boat handling isn't close to Sweden.

    This is definitely some interesting stuff.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    21,754

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    I find it very odd that only one of the skippers is not a native speaker of English.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,563

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    I find it odd that Oz can't get their people together and win this thing again.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,563

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    There are some big shifts on this course.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,563

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    I have been rooting for Sir Ben these last two days, but it is obvious BAR are not one of the top teams.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    19,592

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    I'm amazed they repaired the boat. Seems to be holding.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    21,754

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    I'm amazed they repaired the boat. Seems to be holding.
    .

    At the press conference, it turned out that they had to keep the boat foiling almost to the dock to keep it from sinking.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    5,967

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Dumb things announcers say:

    (Talking about a winch on Oracle) "That's probably custom"

    Probably??? Ya think?????

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,563

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Is there a good tutorial somewhere on sailing these boats? I'd be interested.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  27. #27
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Deer Isle, Maine
    Posts
    1,114

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by bamamick View Post
    Is there a good tutorial somewhere on sailing these boats? I'd be interested.

    Mickey Lake
    Now, I know 'zilch' about racing or design, but this helped me to understand at least some of the procedure, but I believe it can be called "a work in process" and this America's Cup is the cutting edge.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sailing/2...ats-need-know/

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,288

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    I really don't like the new AC. It's a travesty of the history of the event, and the limited practice time means that the slogan "the best sailors, the fastest boats" should be changed to "the best sailors struggling how to work out how to sail the fastest boats". OK, it's not as snappy, but it's true. The thing I love about old ACs and Olympics is watching the acme of competitive sailing expertise - not a bunch of people trying to work out what to do in novel boats with little time on the water. It's as if the cricket World Cup was played using the world's best baseball players after they had been given a couple of week's practice.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New Zealand's Far North
    Posts
    7,341

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    I really don't like the new AC. It's a travesty of the history of the event, and the limited practice time means that the slogan "the best sailors, the fastest boats" should be changed to "the best sailors struggling how to work out how to sail the fastest boats". OK, it's not as snappy, but it's true. The thing I love about old ACs and Olympics is watching the acme of competitive sailing expertise - not a bunch of people trying to work out what to do in novel boats with little time on the water. It's as if the cricket World Cup was played using the world's best baseball players after they had been given a couple of week's practice.
    The America's Cup in my opinion has always been about cutting edge design, there was a fuss when a fibreglass hull was first used, and on it goes.
    Wanting some sepia tinted grandeur from the past simply isnt where its at, and never was.
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Tauranga, New Zealand
    Posts
    111

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Having avidly watched the first two days of America's Cup Racing, I would say hands down it's a massive success and way more interesting to watch than the monohull era. It certainly isn't old school racing, but cats have been around for decades, and with the foiling we're in a new era in terms of racing. We've already seen a number of upset results and very close finishes, demonstrating that sailing expertise is as important as it ever was. And I don't see too many crews "struggling" with the hi-tech machines - though Sir Ben Ainsley does seem a bit crash-happy! What they do require is a super fitness, and an additional set of skills to manage the foils and much more very fast decision-making from the helmsmen.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,288

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    The America's Cup in my opinion has always been about cutting edge design, there was a fuss when a fibreglass hull was first used, and on it goes.
    Wanting some sepia tinted grandeur from the past simply isnt where its at, and never was.
    Sorry, that's not historically correct. The AC has almost never been about cutting edge design, and most people knew it until they started to believe press releases. The AC has almost always been decades behind the leading edge.

    Look at the first British challengers - they were basically cruiser/racers. Galatea was a live-aboard home for the owners- check out the pics of the saloon. The next major phase came with the L X SA rating boats - but they were year behind smaller boats in design evolution. Compare say Valkyrie II with a contemporary small boat built to the same rule like Maharanee. The AC boat is about four generations behind in hull shape, in Rater terms. Look at this One Rater from the same year as Valkyrie - there is no doubt that the AC boat is years behind in development, and the commentators of earlier eras recognised that fact. Fin keels with separate rudders were in offshore racers in the 1940s (Van de Stadt's Zeevalk) and finally made it into the AC in 1968 or whenever Intrepid was launched. By that time the leading edge in big boat design was either something like Windward Passage or the wing-masted tri Pen Duick, which both made Intrepid look what it was - a refined example of a very constrained design.

    Take a look at the rigs - bermudan rigs were first used in international small-yacht racing in 1895. It took until 1930 for the bermudan rig to make it to the AC! Carbon fibre spars were used in an offshore maxi in 1978. They didn't get into the AC until about 1991. Stars, Renjollen and other classes had bendy rigs from about 1930 - AC boats got them abut 1967. Single headsails were used in small yachts from the 1850s, but didn't make it to the AC boats until about 1935. Wing masts were used in offshore boats from about 1968; they made it to the AC in 1989, I think. Plastic sails were used in experiments in about 1952, made it into the AC about 1968. Assymetric spinnakers of the modern type were invented in 1985-ish, made it into the AC about 2000 or later if I recall correctly. Wingsails were used in Int Canoes about 1955, made it into the AC about 1990.

    Foam sandwich was used in dinghies from the 1950s - it didn't get into the AC until 1987. Carbon was used in a Parker Contender hull in about 1972, was common in offshore boats by the late '80s, made it into the AC a few years later.

    Catamarans made it into racing in the 1860s/1870s, and didn't get into the AC until the '80s. Tris were being raced by about 1947-1952 or so (if I recall Tchetchet's entry into BIRW) and made it into the AC about 2012. Foils came into modern sailing with transatlantic shorthanded boats in 1978, into inshore racing with Moths about 2003, and into the AC in about 2014.

    The list of developments in which the AC has lagged behind small boats and offshore racers by decades goes on and on and on. It used to be a great place to refine big-boat equipment that was used by many other sailors - now it's developed itself into a tiny corner.
    Last edited by Chris249; 05-28-2017 at 09:21 PM.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,288

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Quote Originally Posted by Hantu Laut View Post
    Having avidly watched the first two days of America's Cup Racing, I would say hands down it's a massive success and way more interesting to watch than the monohull era. It certainly isn't old school racing, but cats have been around for decades, and with the foiling we're in a new era in terms of racing. We've already seen a number of upset results and very close finishes, demonstrating that sailing expertise is as important as it ever was. And I don't see too many crews "struggling" with the hi-tech machines - though Sir Ben Ainsley does seem a bit crash-happy! What they do require is a super fitness, and an additional set of skills to manage the foils and much more very fast decision-making from the helmsmen.
    That's a perfectly valid point of view and it's great if you enjoy it, but there's other equally valid ways of looking at the AC and from those angles, it's much less interesting than in the earlier eras. You used to be able to relate what was happening in the AC much more closely to what was happening in "normal" sailing - the way that the Australia II guys sailed the last run in 1983, to use a famous example, was very similar to the way they would have sailed in the same conditions in a "normal' boat. You can hop straight off the bow of a typical offshore racer and onto the bow of a 12 Metre, and it feels very similar.

    Many of us can no longer relate to the current AC boats in the same way. Wingsails have been around now for half a century and an old mate of mine had one in 1972, but after all that time there's probably only 7 of them in use in the entire world in a given month. For all the fuss, foiling is an incredibly small niche - last year in the world's biggest cat race there was only something like 4 foilers out of 300 entrants, and at club level they would be rarer still. In major sailing countries like Germany there are only about 20-40 active foiling mono racers even after about a decade of intensive promotion. The typical keen racer can therefore no longer look at what is happening in the AC and apply it to their own sailing, as they used to be able to.

    And despite all the hype, there seems to be no real sign that foiling or multihull sailing will ever become as popular as racing "seahugging" monos. In many areas cats are much less popular than they used to be, with very little sign that they will ever become as popular as ballasted monos. The Moth is fantastic, but it's being outsold by conventional dinghies by a huge amount, and growth is very slow in almost all areas. Judging from the trends it appears that the typical sailor will never be able to really relate to foiling wingmasted cats in the way they could relate to 12s and IACC boats.

    We can't really compare how close the racing is, because we have gone from sailing long courses in open water to sailing 20 minute races inshore. And since the human cognitive and training capacity does not grow, any additional set of requirements in terms of skill and fitness must detract from some other area.

    Okay, not everyone wants to be able to relate to elite sport in the same way, and that's cool. All I'm saying is that for those of us who do like to relate closely to what we see, the new AC is less appealing.
    Last edited by Chris249; 05-28-2017 at 08:07 PM.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    magnolia springs, alabama u.s.a.
    Posts
    12,563

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    But.....the engineering aspect of it has been at the forefront since the days of 'Intrepid' at the least. These last several have been almost entirely in the hands of the designers and engineers.

    That being said, Ainslie, Outteridge, and Burling are among the most decorated people to ever enter this event. Indeed, Spithill and Barker have little to compare to what those have on the Olympic or international scene. Franck Cammas appears to have deep experience sailing multi hulls but mostly in France or in those trans-oceanic races.

    There are some good sailors in this thing and so far, some good racing.

    Mickey Lake
    Last edited by bamamick; 05-29-2017 at 06:58 AM.
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,606

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Trying to watch the NBC coverage from today. It's barely tolerable. The same long ad sequence over and over again, totally lame commentary, bad audio. Can't they get anything right? Routine maneuvers are considered amazing, and when something unusual does happen, they don't even seem to notice it.
    -Dave

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,288

    Default Re: America's cup / Loluis Vuitton

    Sure, engineering has been at the forefront of the AC, but arguably the AC has rarely been at the forefront of sailing engineering. The whole "the AC has always been the leading edge" belief is manufactured for PR purposes (in some senses) or true if one is looking from the point of view of refinement of existing small-boat technology and making it suitable for big boats. Even then, the big offshore boats have lead the way more than the AC boats.

    BYT Frank was I think second in the F18 cat worlds, so he's a very good inshore sailor too. I'd put Slingsby and Gashby right up there too.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •