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Thread: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

  1. #1
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    Default Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Norman probably won't like this academic paper:


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_w...pkRzVXUzg/view

    The abstract:

    Fact-checking has gained prominence as a reformist movement to revitalize truth-seeking ideals in journalism. While fact-checkers are often assumed to code facts accurately, no studies have formally assessed fact-checkersí performance. I evaluate the performance of two major online fact-checkers, Politfact at Tampa Bay Times and Fact Checker at Washington Post, comparing their interrater reliability using a method that is regularly utilized across the social sciences. I show that fact-checkers rarely fact-check the same statement, and when they do, there is little agreement in their ratings. Approximately, 1 in 10 statements is fact-checked by both fact-checking outlets, and among claims that both outlets check, their factual ratings have a Cohenís κ of 0.52, an agreement rate much lower than what is acceptable for social scientific coding. The results suggest that difficulties in fact-checking elitesí statements may limit the ability of journalistic fact-checking to hold politicians accountable.
    And of course they are very biased:

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...ie-more-164943

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    And of course they are very biased:
    'Of course'? The study does not support that conclusion.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    So peb, are you insinuating that we all just give POTUS and his ilk a free pass?

    I bloody well don't think so. If you see our current president hobbling around next week in Europe, that is because his feet are being held to the fire.
    Gerard>
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    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    "...academic paper..."

    What do you mean by "academic"? That it is a trusted source, say, Stanford? Does the fact that the paper is by a graduate student, as a sole author with no mentor, and appears to not be peer-reviewed, lessen the impact? Why was the paper released without peer review? If the paper demonstrated, say, the validity of climate modeling, would the word "academic" still be used and, if so, would it be used to infer a negative rather than positive connotation? Are academics praised when their work can be used by conservatives, and demonized as "academics" when their work is counter to conservative thought?
    I'll bet Norman likes these reply's!
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    I'll bet Norman likes these reply's!
    i sure do
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    just think... all that past gloating was fake news
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    And... as the cited reference mentions... there is plenty of actual, peer-reviewed, highly regarded academic work that suggest that such fact-checking puts a damper on a politicians temptation to lie more than they already do.

    And yes, that paper needs some work. One example: she cites an essay at Huffington Post as carrying the same weight as and article in a top-tier academic journal.

    I think maybe this is just another example of being driven by ideology/confirmation bias to latch onto even the frailest reed that leans in your direction.
    Last edited by David G; 05-19-2017 at 11:31 AM.
    David G
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    I'll bet Norman likes these reply's!
    there is no apostrophe in a plural noun.

    Try learning to spell.
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    there is no apostrophe in a plural noun.

    Try learning to spell.
    Thanks donn, I'll get right on that!
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    rofl
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    rofl
    Fact checkers, spell checkers...cant trust em!
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    Thanks donn, I'll get right onn that!
    ftfy
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    We need a fact checker to check out the "facts" in the academic paper.

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    elf doing spell-reform.... donnn MIA.....

    You do the math
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Nice troll, peb.

    But I can't help but notice your OP has been up-ended.

    Response?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Nice troll, peb.

    But I can't help but notice your OP has been up-ended.

    Response?
    Sure! My response is: if this is the best the right has to offer by way of analysis... if this gossamer tissue of sophistry is all they got... then...

    Oh, wait... you meant a response from peb.

    A thousand pardons, peb. By all means, share your response. Do. We await with halted respiration and exalted expectations...
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    My response is that I find it horrifying that "fact checking" has been prompted to emerge. It's a Band-Aid on the actual problem, which is the apathy and inattentiveness of the electorate which has made it profitable for politicians to lie so hard and so often.

    I am sorry that fact-checking agencies don't agree, though I'm unsurprised that an assessment of "Pants on Fire" by one may be countered by merely "Two Pinocchios" by another. These are early days for the fact-checking discipline, eh, and the competing agencies didn't sit down and hammer out common criteria for coding things. It may get better over time, though the competitive nature of for-profit news packaging means that there's still gonna be incentives for the different agencies to keep their own branding.

    This is quibbling 'round the edges. What's not really in doubt is the broad outlines of who was more likely to stay nearer the truth even when they slanted and spun, and who was more likely to invent stuff entirely out of self-produced methane. Frankly, the jury hasn't ever "been out" on that issue with respect to the 2016 campaign.
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    My response is that I find it horrifying that "fact checking" has been prompted to emerge. It's a Band-Aid on the actual problem, which is the apathy and inattentiveness of the electorate which has made it profitable for politicians to lie so hard and so often.

    I am sorry that fact-checking agencies don't agree, though I'm unsurprised that an assessment of "Pants on Fire" by one may be countered by merely "Two Pinocchios" by another. These are early days for the fact-checking discipline, eh, and the competing agencies didn't sit down and hammer out common criteria for coding things. It may get better over time, though the competitive nature of for-profit news packaging means that there's still gonna be incentives for the different agencies to keep their own branding.

    This is quibbling 'round the edges. What's not really in doubt is the broad outlines of who was more likely to stay nearer the truth even when they slanted and spun, and who was more likely to invent stuff entirely out of self-produced methane. Frankly, the jury hasn't ever "been out" on that issue with respect to the 2016 campaign.
    Oh... stop making sense. Just stop it. You know the true believer's don't want to hear rational, nuanced discussion. Where are your pom-poms, man??? <G>
    David G
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Sorry dude, I should have known better. But it's Friday, and it's been a long week.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Sorry dude, I should have known better. But it's Friday, and it's been a long week.

    Don't feel bad...you spelled everything flawlessly!
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Methane powered. Now, there's a mental image to get ya going... sorta
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    And... as the cited reference mentions... there is plenty of actual, peer-reviewed, highly regarded academic work that suggest that such fact-checking puts a damper on a politicians temptation to lie more than they already do.

    And yes, that paper needs some work. One example: she cites an essay at Huffington Post as carrying the same weight as and article in a top-tier academic journal.

    I think maybe this is just another example of being driven by ideology/confirmation bias to latch onto even the frailest reed that leans in your direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    just think... all that past gloating was fake news

    . . .

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Peb???
    David G
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Sure! My response is: if this is the best the right has to offer by way of analysis... if this gossamer tissue of sophistry is all they got... then...
    Wait - you left out confirmation bias!
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Wait - you left out confirmation bias!
    Already covered. See #8 <G>
    David G
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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    My response is that I find it horrifying that "fact checking" has been prompted to emerge. It's a Band-Aid on the actual problem, which is the apathy and inattentiveness of the electorate which has made it profitable for politicians to lie so hard and so often.
    I disagree; I find fact-checking a very positive development. Politicians have always presented their case in the most favorable light; sometimes that's involved actual lying, sometimes merely being selective with facts, or one of the innumerable other techniques of persuading people. It's the price of democracy, and far better than the alternatives; autocrats don't have to persuade anybody. The electorate all have busy lives to lead, half of them are below average in intelligence and education, and even if they're willing they often can't pay as much attention to politics as it probably deserves. Internet fact-checking, when it's reasonably accurate, is a simple and fast way to see if something is bullsh!t or not. I think it's a very good thing, and I wish we had it years ago.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    So peb, are you insinuating that we all just give POTUS and his ilk a free pass?

    I bloody well don't think so. If you see our current president hobbling around next week in Europe, that is because his feet are being held to the fire.
    ????? I said nothing about Trump. I don't give him a free pass, why should I want you to?

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Peb???
    Not much to say really. I admit, the OP was certainly a troll.

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Fact checkers. . . hmmm.... this thread needs a musical interlude!

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    Fact checkers, spell checkers...cant trust em!
    I literally LOLed.
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    I wish we had fact checkers when they wrote the bible.

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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    The Stanford faculty should be ashamed for letting that piece of propaganda show up online as an academic paper.

    She didn't even bother to edit the thing. In the abstract, she misspells Politifact. And the gabble about "elites" is pure alt-right-speak.
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  34. #34
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Not much to say really. I admit, the OP was certainly a troll.
    Are you bored? Looking to waste time. I wish you wouldn't engage on that level.
    David G
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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Fact checkers aren't very accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Are you bored? Looking to waste time. I wish you wouldn't engage on that level.
    Kinda fun, like the game, Whack -A-Troll!
    PaulF

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