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Thread: How should I repair and dry out this?

  1. #1
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    Default How should I repair and dry out this?

    Hi all

    New here and hope someone can help.

    Me and dad built a cold moulded yacht around 10 years ago with West System. I am not very involved with the boat much these days but recommended to dad that he should get the local boat yard to sort out any small marks and dings over the winter. Sadly they have not had time to do a thorough job and on launch day I noticed this on the bow. She took a light blow a few years ago and dad touched it up with resin but clearly it has opened up over the winter. In the ideal world she would be hauled out into a warm dry shed, have the resin striped back and leave the wood to completely dry out before resealing. Dad is not in his first flush of youth and his years of sailing are numbered so be great if we can find a satisfactorily way to get this sorted while still afloat to maximise this seasons sailing.

    Cant upload picture at present but will hopefully add one shortly

    Does this work? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
    Last edited by Beau1; 05-19-2017 at 07:11 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    I can see the photo but cannot tell squat from it.
    Is the boat bright finished? Is that the stem that bonked a dock perhaps?
    Yea, sand it back and put more resin on it basically. If rot has grown in there , well, the job gets bigger.
    The wood and epoxy look sunburnt, coating her with opaque (white) ,is beneficial for boats that get treated like boats.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    Thanks wizbang. Changed the picture to a higher resolution one so hopefully now easier to make out whats going on.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    Clean out the old resin and damaged wood. "Seal" the new wood surface with non thickened epoxy. Cut a new piece/dutchman/shim of similar wood to fill the void. Seal it as well. Fasten in the new piece with thickened epoxy, like Jamestown Distributors TotalBoat THIXO Flex or West System 105 with Fast or Slow hardener depending on your climate or Pettit Flexpoxy. Or System 3. Sand. Then finish with paint/varnish/etc...


    Here is an example of a piece we had to graft into the hull of Barbashela. The fit does not have to be super tight because the flexpoxy needs a space to bond, unlike most glues that need a tight fit and lots of pressure to cure.






    Good luck
    Kent

  5. #5
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    Thanks Charlie. My main concern is that epoxy and damp wood don't mix. I remember the dehumidified tent she was built in and being very careful to keep the wood below 10% moisture content. I suspect it's way above that now. Do any epoxies cope with higher moisture contents? Alternatively are there ways to rapidly dry it in place?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    You can email West System Tech Help lines and ask them. Just as you don't want wood too wet you don't want it too dry either as cells can collapse. You'll need a moisture meter to get the best idea of where the moisture content is at, 10-12% is a good baseline.

    To dry you could tent the bow and put a dehumidifier in there and check it. How engrained is the moisture, is it surface wet or has it been soaking for months?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    I, too, am having a bit of trouble deciphering what I'm looking at. But the image shows enough for me to speculate in a small way.

    First it will take some poking and prodding to get some sense... but the danger is that moisture intrusion has started rot in that crack. The bigger danger is that it has already spread in and under the surface film, which makes it harder to detect and define.

    If it were my boat, and assuming the interior is glassed (not shown), I'd be thinking about setting a router bit to cut most of the thickness of the hull - but NOT all the way thru. Then routing out an area (big enough, but no bigger... check as you go) that assures I'm back into sound wood. Then I'd patch in a dutchman and re-coat.

    As an aside... it appears that the exterior is NOT glassed. This sort of damage illustrated why glass is employed. I'd consider glassing if, indeed, it isn't already. If not the whole hull... then up to the waterline+... and up the stem and aft corners. All the places where impacts are likely.

    Thanks for posting the foto. One foto is far, far better than zero. However... if I were actually trying to diagnose long-distance for a client... I'd be looking for more like 6-12 images, showing inside and out, and a variety of perspectives, and well annotated, just to begin the conversation.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    Sorry about the picture. Poring with rain at the time and only got a naff phone. Also hadn't thought as far ahead as asking about the problem on a forum at the time. Will take some more when I get a chance. Have added one of her coming out in the autumn not that it shows the bow very well https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater. Point taken about glassing over epoxy but I should add it's not my boat! Below the waterline is copperbot which has proved very resilient. If it had been properly touched up post impact I don't think there would be an issue now but it's easy to wise in hindsight.

    Will attempt to explain better what your looking at. The bow is some 25mm thick wood that is planted onto an ash keelson. The black rounds are Wenge plugs covering ss screws. I think water has got in from a damaged area of epoxy from a previous bash. This has gone unnoticed so the wood has expanded creating a what is now an ugly great crack which is undoubtedly letting more water in as we live a wet part of the world.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    can't make out where on the boat this is.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  10. #10
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    To get photos from facebook yall need to down load and copy the DL link. I'm guess I'm the only one that can see this? let me know.
    Nice boat! now I see where the repairs needs to be done.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  11. #11
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    Good job with the pictures Denise. I tried adding them as attachments but it said the files had to be tiny but couldn't attach them anyway. Then read the FAQ and I thought it said I had to use a hosting page but you seemed to have proved that wrong.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    Best way here with pics is to use a hosting site and copy the direct URL to the insert photo link.

    ALWAYS uncheck; "Retrieve remote file and reference locally" after you post the photo link.

    On most web site photos. a hover over the pic and and l R click to "copy image location" works. on Facebook it's not as easy.. download and save to your device works better. Then post here the usual way. Attachments don't work here.

    Is the inner bow accessible Beau? Yes she needs to be dried out to fix.,
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  13. #13
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post

    Is the inner bow accessible Beau? Yes she needs to be dried out to fix.,
    Yes but there is a lot of wood between the inner and outer. Think the keelson is 3 layers of 20mm ash so 60mm between the two. Hoping there might be a way to dry out in situ with a mini tent or a very patient man with a hairdryer haha. Dad is coming around to idea she might have to hauled out again to sort it.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    All those dark spots on the hull may be water intrusion also. hope not! Maybe... an outer stem would save the bow if there is something something solid on the inside bow. Just thinking..I'm sure others will have better solutions. yes.. she needs to be hauled for real repairs.. how long she been in?
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  15. #15
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    All those dark spots on the hull may be water intrusion also. hope not! Maybe... an outer stem would save the bow if there is something something solid on the inside bow. Just thinking..I'm sure others will have better solutions. yes.. she needs to be hauled for real repairs.. how long she been in?
    The dark spots on the side are fine. It's how it went when first wetted out with resin. Shame it was not more uniform. She has only been in two days! Spotted it has she was going in as I had to help on lift day. Just a shame the boat yard she was in who did some work on her never noticed but in fairness dad should have spotted it also.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    It would be much better to haul her out again to fix the damage. You do need to expose the extent of any decay (there could be none of course) before repairing it. And it's not easy to do this while she is afloat, specially if there is much repair to be done.

    I think I would probe the cracks with a thin spike, or a small chisel to try to ascertain if there is soft wood in there. If all seems sound it could be OK to dry everything out and fill with WEST/filler mix – perhaps #404 (though this is a creamy colour) – ask WEST technical dept. BUT it is very important that you don't bottle up any decay in there.

    If you suspect decay, I reckon the easiest/best repair is to cut out the first lamination, back to the second lamination, starting just above the damage and finishing just below and scarph in a new section, WEST bonded and coated as the original. It does look a bit as if the laminations are parting company anyway. Trying to rout out cracks and damage like this on the curve of the stem isn't easy and could easily take more time for a less satisfactory job, than simply replacing a section of the first lamination.

    A temporary cover and a bit of gentle warmth should get the moisture content down to something like 12% once the area is opened up – best to test with a moisture meter.

    Cheers - George
    To be truly free to live, one must be free to think and speak.

    A C Grayling

  17. #17
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    And that's looks to be a pretty highly stressed area of the boat, assuming you crank on backstay to control headstay sag. Make sure you have bonded everything well and carry the repairs back a ways...not just the immediate area.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    Thanks all

    Guess I knew deep down there was no magic answer to do it in situ but one can hope. Haul her out, scrape of resin and let it dry will have to be the rout.

    Beau

  19. #19
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    Default Re: How should I repair and dry out this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau1 View Post
    Good job with the pictures Denise. I tried adding them as attachments but it said the files had to be tiny but couldn't attach them anyway. Then read the FAQ and I thought it said I had to use a hosting page but you seemed to have proved that wrong.

    You’re likely on the right track with posting the pic’s, you can simply "copy the image address" from your Facebook and then paste it into the URL box but just un-tick the "Retrieve remote file and reference locally” or it will say it’s too big to post.

    Re the repair - I can’t see that being achieved properly in any way in water.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

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