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Thread: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

  1. #1
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    Default How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    I have a 40 foot LOA 7 ton pilot cutter (Cornish Trader converted to a cutter rig), and am considering a making a jib topsail.
    The upper shroud has a very slight (maybe 3") aft lead. Its a pole mast, jibstay opposite the peak halyard and about halfway between the mast band where the hounds should be. No head stay. Two lower shrouds, and one upper shroud that passes through fixed spreaders and runs to the masthead. The existing running backs are set up to counter the jibstay.


    Do those of you who use a JT regularly like it?
    Do you have upper or split running backs to support the upper section of the mast/topmast? And if so does the jackyard get fouled on the upper running back?



  2. #2
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    Interesting question. I have no answers, but I'll be watching the thread.

    Photos?

    Alex

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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    Yea, photos.
    I carried a few "stick" topsl when I Day sailed on protected water.
    But my standing rigging is simpler(no backstays, no spreaders or crosstrees).
    I went to a no stick top for short handed ocean cruising.
    Whatever you do, consider launch and retrieve on the stbd tack, so you do not have to maneuver out of people's way while swearing up the mast at the "sticks"!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    Oh, jib top.
    Sorry, I was yammering about topsl.
    Same holds true for stbd tack .
    i also carried a third jib until recently. But it was a flying sail on a second bowsprit(nose pole).The nose pole was substantially lighter/weaker than the top of the mast, which was no accident, to protect the spar.
    There will always be some screwup that will SHAKE the daylight out of the rig.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    Quote Originally Posted by McKee View Post
    I have a 40 foot LOA 7 ton pilot cutter (Cornish Trader converted to a cutter rig), and am considering a making a jib topsail.
    The upper shroud has a very slight (maybe 3") aft lead. Its a pole mast, jibstay opposite the peak halyard and about halfway between the mast band where the hounds should be. No head stay. Two lower shrouds, and one upper shroud that passes through fixed spreaders and runs to the masthead. The existing running backs are set up to counter the jibstay.


    Do those of you who use a JT regularly like it?
    Do you have upper or split running backs to support the upper section of the mast/topmast? And if so does the jackyard get fouled on the upper running back?


    alot of the answers to these questions depend on how you see yourself using the flying jib and topsail, at least thats the case here in NE with our traditional fishing sloops and schooners.

    If you are wanting some extra sail for interest, to give passengers and crew something to have fun with during light airs, and special occasions you are probably fine with the pole mast and whats up there already... If you want this for a traditional craft race series going head to head, bashing through all weather in close quarters with other cutters, smacks and bawleys etc... you may want to consider significant reinforcement of the topmast, probably the introduction of a set of running backs near the mast head would be the simplest and most important addition for heavy airs.

    on the wind I'm thinking you may have less to worry about as the pull of flying jibs'l and the main top will be in opposition to one another, and you already have a shroud on spreaders to the masthead.

    photos please!




  6. #6
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    @ Daniel Noyes
    Right now the boat is engineless, so I need all the sail I can get. I am do get serious about getting places so hammering to weather is a possibility. I wish I lived somewhere where I could do a race series against other boats of similar design but the Pacific NW is short on gaffers. I use the #1 topsail (I have 3 sizes) almost anytime I can, the boat is happier with it up. I am still waiting on the quote for the price of the sail kit, if the $$$ are ok, then I will go for it, and rig temporary upper running backs that tie into the existing lower runners. Then I will just have to watch the flex when its loaded up.

    And I will absolutely post pics.
    Last edited by McKee; 05-05-2017 at 09:40 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    @wizbang 13. Heh... its ok. I got the topsail part down. I actually ended up with 3. The boat was originally ketch rigged, and we had a topsail made that had both a jack yard & a topsail yard. After the rerig it turned out that the lengthening of the gaff almost perfectly matched the topsail yard length. That sail is now the #2 topsail. I build a big topsail for the new rig (jack and topsail yard), and a sail out of heavier cloth and NO PIG STICKS that we could use at night. Less chance of fouling.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    Here are a few pics from last springs trip.



  9. #9
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    Aw geeze, you went FROM a ketch to a cutter????
    see yer scullin oar sticking out there!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    Yeah, 30 feet on deck is just to short for that extra mast. I have since ditched the sculling oar, and just gone all in for the oars, which works WAY better.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    Right now the boat is engineless, so I need all the sail I can get.
    Boy, do I know what you mean! I've got a design on the board to increase Bucephalus's rig about 30%; I just need the $$$ for the sails. There just isn't the wind here as back in Maine.

    Given the light airs, and that your aft shrouds look to be comfortably aft of the mast, I wonder whether you'd need to bother with further runningbacks. That jib-top will likely be the first thing you douse, so it might not even be an issue.

    Have you checked where your CE will end up, with the jib-top up? You don't want to end up with a lee helm. I sailed a 28' Friendship (Morning Star) with a lee helm, and it wasn't any fun at all.

    Alex

  12. #12
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    The boat carries a touch of weather helm as is when the topsail is set, so the change in balance should be ok.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    The boat carries a touch of weather helm as is when the topsail is set, so the change in balance should be ok.
    Fair enough --but you might want to draw it out on paper, if you haven't already. A "touch of weather helm" isn't a bad thing, and the lee helm alternative is rather unpleasant.

    Another possibility (that you may already have thought of) is going to a big, overlapping "genoa", sheeted well aft, instead of that working jib.

    And I don't mean to sound opposed to your plan of adding a jib-top; it sounds perfectly reasonable. I'm only exploring options because I went through a staying re-think on Bucephalus recently and gained a mind-blowing increase in performance by shifting her existing (single) shrouds 11" aft --and thereby avoided adding runners, which I hate.

    Alex

  14. #14
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Whatever you do, consider launch and retrieve on the stbd tack, so you do not have to maneuver out of people's way while swearing up the mast at the "sticks"!
    I just love this advice

    Pretty much works for everything you need to do while underway

  15. #15
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    Default Re: How to set up a jib topsail and jack yard topsail to play well together...

    just looking at the rig it looks pretty sturdy, I would be surprised if you even end up needing the upper running backs... as long as you are setting a modest size flying jib, and not some big reaching sail or spinnaker.

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