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Thread: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

  1. #1
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    Default Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    This question may have been addressed in the past, but I'm new to this forum so please excuse me if that is the case...

    I own a 111 year old wooden sailboat, which has Sikaflex between the planks below the waterline (under the antifoul). Some of this caulk is coming out and I need to pull out the rest and replace. But with what? Is Sikaflex the best option? I note that 5200 is also designed to be used below the waterline, remains flexible once it's cured, but according to the specs it has greater tensile strength and elongation.

    On boats past I've used 5200 when mounting fittings above the waterline, and its adhesion is excellent, but has anybody tried both and have a comparison?

    Nick

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    You can't come here and post about a 111 year old sailboat without posting pictures. You'll get yourself banned.

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Sorry, my computer is not allowing me to...

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    I wouldn't use either. I'd use traditional seam compound over cotton caulking, as was intended when she was built. But then my old wooden sailboat is only 58 years old.

    There are instructions for posting photos in the FAQ section.

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailnick View Post
    Sorry, my computer is not allowing me to...
    There's a process. Search and you will find it. Basically you have to take the photos from an Internet site, not your computer.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    If you use sikaflex or 5200 on a 100+ year old wooden boat you have mental issues.

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Use neither.

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Hardly a constructive or intelligent comment, but unfortunately forums by their very nature tend to attract the less eloquent and less thoughtful. But if you're correct about me having mental issues, at least I'm not alone - Sikaflex is prevalent throughout the early BODs, YBODs, River Cruisers, Rebels, Waveney ODs, etc., in eastern Britain, some of which stem from the late 1800s.

    I'll be sure to stick to discussing this boat's maintenance with my friends, and give this forum a miss...

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Is the Sikaflex being used as a seam compound or as a replacement for the cotton caulking? How were these seams originally done? There sure wasn't Sikaflex back in the late 1800s.

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Sailnick, don't give up on the forum, there is a lot of good knowledge here. But like most forums, it takes a while to separate the asses from the assets.

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Don't worry about them Nick. Post a picture or two of your boat and they'll pipe down. If you use google to search this forum then you'll probability find what you want. The forum search things is a bit hopeless.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    May be a regional thing, but I’ve heard a number of times from professional wooden boat builders here in Oz that Sikaflex for some reason seems to attract woodworm. Whether it’s the product itself or poor interface with antifoul I don’t know.
    Last edited by Larks; 05-09-2017 at 04:33 AM.
    Larks

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailnick View Post
    Hardly a constructive or intelligent comment, but unfortunately forums by their very nature tend to attract the less eloquent and less thoughtful. But if you're correct about me having mental issues, at least I'm not alone - Sikaflex is prevalent throughout the early BODs, YBODs, River Cruisers, Rebels, Waveney ODs, etc., in eastern Britain, some of which stem from the late 1800s.

    I'll be sure to stick to discussing this boat's maintenance with my friends, and give this forum a miss...
    There is a wealth of wood boat knowledge here, and some resides in the heads of curmudgeons. What I think was trying to be communicated was seam COMPOUND is not CAULKING. I have used Silkaflex and other Thiokol type compounds with success. 5200 has no place in the seams of a wood boat, it does not compress enough and is the devil himself to remove. The caulking is what resides under the compound and is most popularly oakum or cotton.
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Caulking makes the boat watertight
    Seam compound makes the hull smooth
    Neither are sealants nor adhesives and there is no one single tube goop that you can use to substitute the two on a traditionally carvel planked boat that will not ultimately destroy the plank edges by crushing the wood fibers or simply fail and leak.

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Control yourself. Avoid posting BIG pictures. Keep them 500 pixels wide OR LESS. That way the dial-up folks aren't bogged-down, and the width doesn't make the page hard to read in a standard sized window. If you don't have Photoshop, try the freebie from gimp.org. We do NOT host your images. You need to have a place like Flickr, Imagestation, Photobucket, DropBox, or one of the free other hosting outfits... or your own site.
    Per Thorne's 'How-to', here's how to post photos on this forum:


    ...FIRST - Don't attach photos. Only a tiny version will display.
    ...SECOND - Post the photos on the web. Use your own website or a free image hosting service like www.flickr.com, picasaweb.google.com, picturetrail, photobucket, etc. Images posted on Facebook must be set to "Public" access via the Edit option, not limited to "Friends".
    ...THIRD - Once posted on the web, right-click the photo to "Copy Image Location", or drag the photo to another browser window, then copy the image URL (web address) which will end in ".jpg". You can test by pasting the photo URL into the location field (http://* ) of a web browser and see if the photo displays. Remember that this process will not work for photos located just on your computer, on members-only Yahoo groups, or on Facebook unless set to "Public" view. (In Flickr - You usually have to first click the photo to bring up the black-framed viewer, then click the "View All Sizes" link near the top right. Then you can get the image URL by right-clicking the image. Alternately you can go to the Actions menu on the upper left, then select "View All Sizes".
    ...FOURTH - DO THIS EVERY TIME TO POST IMAGES IN THREADS: A. In any "Reply" window you can click the "insert image" icon --> a little yellow square icon with a dot at each corner, a tiny tree in the center.Depending on browser version and Reply/Edit status, this may bring up a simple window with a field to paste the URL into, or the "Add an Image" window described below.
    B. If the window titled "Add an Image" comes up, click the "From URL" tab, paste the URL of the photo in the field, deselect the box for "Retrieve remote file and reference locally", then click the "INSERT IMAGE" button. The Forum software will resize some large images, so look at your post to see the actual displayed images.
    Steamboat

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Why do people have to be jerks & post suff like "you have mental issues"??? Rude & entirely unnecessary. How about "I do not believe either is the best product for your vessel"? A little courtesy goes a long ways.

    Willin Woodwork's post above (#14) states it well.

    Here's another vote against 5200 - it is nasty stuff & paint does not stick to it worth a darn - even though they list it as "paintable". Though my boat is only 76 YO, cotton & Interlux Seam Compound have worked very well for many years.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    I like Sikaflex in all flavors, and have used it in many applications both above and below the waterline with complete confidence.
    But, only with careful study that it is not being asked to work outside of it's elastic limits.

    The man asked a simple question and with no real knowledge of his actual scenario he has been run off. That qualifies as rude. An 111 year old sailboat? What could it be, Fife? Obviously something built to the highest standards, and I think we collectively have missed a learning opportunity.

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    It was a joke. Apparently no one has a sense of humor. To the one who called me an ass? There are rules about name calling even if it's a back handed insinuation. That is like the pot calling the kettle black. I personally don't care but.....It was a small joke taken way to literally.

    Sikaflex and 5200 have applications for seams below the water line and generally a carvel planked boat is not it. There is always an exception to the rule.

    Something to remember is someone with thin skin will not last long on any forum. The attitude here is abrupt in general. Some people don't translate what they mean to over the keyboard well.
    Last edited by Hill160881; 05-09-2017 at 02:38 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Jokes of that sort don't come across well when typed. That's what smileys are for, so people will know it's intended as a joke
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    OP has left the building.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacko View Post
    OP has left the building.
    ‘can’t blame him ........ 'such a nice way to welcome a new forum member (and we didn’t even get to see the boat).
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hill160881 View Post
    It was a joke. Apparently no one has a sense of humor. To the one who called me an ass? There are rules about name calling even if it's a back handed insinuation. That is like the pot calling the kettle black. I personally don't care but.....It was a small joke taken way to literally.

    Sikaflex and 5200 have applications for seams below the water line and generally a carvel planked boat is not it. There is always an exception to the rule.

    Something to remember is someone with thin skin will not last long on any forum. The attitude here is abrupt in general. Some people don't translate what they mean to over the keyboard well.

    Something to remember is: “don’t be rude”.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hill160881 View Post
    It was a joke. Apparently no one has a sense of humor. To the one who called me an ass? There are rules about name calling even if it's a back handed insinuation. That is like the pot calling the kettle black. I personally don't care but.....It was a small joke taken way to literally.

    Sikaflex and 5200 have applications for seams below the water line and generally a carvel planked boat is not it. There is always an exception to the rule.

    Something to remember is someone with thin skin will not last long on any forum. The attitude here is abrupt in general. Some people don't translate what they mean to over the keyboard well.
    Do you great people face to face, for the first time with humour of that sort. I think not otherwise you'd cop a smacking like you deserve. Thanks for loosing us the opportunity to see his boat.
    Forums would be better off without your type.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Personally I don't use Sikaflex at all especially on the seams. It's my personal preference based simply on the nature of Sikaflex - and I am talking about Sikaflex 291 which is described in the UK as the 'marine sealant and adhesive'. The issue steering my preference is the data sheet of Sikaflex. As an adhesive it has some remarkable flexiblity BUT once cured it can only be removed mechanically. I think the OP will realise the implication of its properties. If it needs to be redone how is that going to be easily removed from over 111 year planks. If you judge once you've done it you will never need to do it again but will the flexibility of the adhesive be sufficient. I wouldn't know but I would suspect a re-fit of a boat that age is going to need a more traditional solution. It's an opinion. A while back some locals criticised me for not using Sikaflex to bed up the outer stern bearing. But the outer stern bearing is a service item; the cutless bearing can only be changed by the outer stern bearing removed. OK, it's a 26 year service period but by using polysuphide it was easy to unwind the stern bearing to get access to the cutless. No damage at all to the timber and quite clear evidence that the polysuphide was amply capable of resisting water.T

    The point is the right solution for the problem is worth some debate. I would want a more flexible product in the seams than Sikaflex (there may be other products in the range) and my preference is red lead putty.

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Fascinating. I had no idea red lead putty was still available.

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    There are plenty of wooden boats out there with Sikaflex, 3M ad Fixtech products over caulking cotton in their seams, including the Pardy’s Seraffyn and Taliesin, and they are all floating and sailing as well as traditionally caulked boats. The issue is more to do with the products durability and functionality and 3m 5200 and Fixtech seem to do better than Sikaflex.

    As well as supposedly attracting wood worm, the Sikaflex products seem to dry out and harden quickly making it unsuitable for use under the water-line.

    I have used Fixtech over cotton in my garboard seam (the rest of the hull is glued strip plank) pretty much in the same manner as described by Larry Pardy as he used on Seraffyn and Taleisin where he used 3m 5200, ( after replacing the Jeffries Marine Glue with it on Seraffyn).
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Oregon View Post
    Fascinating. I had no idea red lead putty was still available.
    Trying again - the builders cut the house power in the middle of the thread! In the UK it is still available from traditional suppliers. But I bought some red and white lead powder from an artists's supplier which artist's use to mix up the colour of oil paints. Regulations apply of course.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Well,..... It seems this place has demonstrated it can chase a guy with a 111 year old boat away in three posts. Sailnick hasn't been back here since saying "and give this forum a miss. ...." on the 9th.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    That's a shame. I suspect the comment was tongue in cheek (in humour). We all have different cultural backgrounds, one man's joke is another's insult. I hope he returns - even if I vote for red lead putty over Sikaflex. Er, 5200, what's that?

    Can I add the comment about the difficulty of local UK chandleries who now just cater for plastic. They just stock Sikaflex and Silicon! Quelle 'orrid! No polysulphide or Butyl. I had to have a special order on polysulphide. Now that is utter madness.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Lots of talk of what not to use. Cotton for caulking yes, but what is the best seam compound to use?

    And I I gotta ask, is somebody on this forum really still using a dialup connection? Really? In 2017?
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Does sikaflex look like white silicone when dry? Reason for asking is this is what I dug out of my seams last week. I thought it might be silicon used as a quick repair but I have never used sikaflex so I have no clue what it looks like dry or cured

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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post

    And I I gotta ask, is somebody on this forum really still using a dialup connection? Really? In 2017?
    Just 3% are using dialup. AND practically all the other websites in the universe are built with broadband in mind. Yes, 95% of the traffic on this forum are from the same 30 guys talking about guns and politics...but I am sure that newcomers (ie...new potential customers for WB magazine) are turned off by the antediluvian rules here. Can you think of another site which rations image size? I can't. Hard drives are cheap now. Really.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Lots of talk of what not to use. Cotton for caulking yes, but what is the best seam compound to use?

    And I I gotta ask, is somebody on this forum really still using a dialup connection? Really? In 2017?
    I am using brown interlux today on my Beetlecat. I guess I was being too anal about it a week ago and quit because I didn't like the way it was spreading. I dove back in today and still spreads a little dry but need to get it done.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Oregon View Post
    Fascinating. I had no idea red lead putty was still available.
    It apparently can still be obtained in places where people don't need their heads examined.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Sikaflex or 5200 below the waterline?

    If the brown is running dry, add a few drops of thinner. On older hulls that are dried out every winter, it can help to mix the brown about 50/50 with black roofing glop. Final trick in my kit is an old time reloadable grease gun. I load the mix in that and can lay a nice bead in the crack ready for a good fast flattening with my spatula much faster and easier than working dabs off a mortar board.

    On both new and old construction, many boat yards are turning to 5200 in place of the traditional seam compounds. Very easy to apply and once cured easily painted.

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