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Thread: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

  1. #1
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    Default Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Is it posible to edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake. I am dreamin of building a lapstrake boat, but strugle to find nice and wide boards. One reason I think its posible, is the method of gluing splines in cracks, and gluing scarfes. Has anyone done something like this. I know one must be careful with gluing in a way that seal the moisture in the wood, but edge gluing will let the wood breathe. What do the experts say?

    Regards Fred

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Simple edge gluing with a marine grade glue (epoxy, resourcinol, and the like) should not be a problem. You can also accomodate any sweep in the plank but gluing up out of 2 or three segments scarphed together

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Now your talking my language! I've laid up clinker planking out of strips on several boats. You can lay them up right on the boat or make a girder type spiling and lay them up on the bench.

    Here are a couple of pages of photos. You'll notice that there are no frames in this hull. Each plank is glassed inside and out, making them very unlikely to split.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/48858202@N05/page1

    Laying up with strips allows you to follow the sweep of the plank with the strips, while at the same time allowing you to use narrow stock to your hearts content.

    I've never known anyone else to do it. Welcome to the very small and oh so exclusive (and elite ) club.

    Have at 'er, Bubba!



    Launch 008 by gib etheridge, on Flickr
    Last edited by Gib Etheridge; 04-22-2017 at 08:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    ^ Nice job Gib. Not sure if i would call that clinker, or a 2 overlap chine strip plank boat; regardless of giving it a name, a good solution and one not going to suffer down the road from a row of splits along the fastenings in a trad build. I was thinking of doing something similar on a small dinghy, the stock i have to hand is fractionally too small, but i do not want to add more planks into the mix.
    Nice building, my old cottage was built just like that 120 years ago!

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    I was going to say No, the planks would split on the glue lines, but obviously I'd have been wrong.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    Now your talking my language! I've laid up clinker planking out of strips on several boats. You can lay them up right on the boat or make a girder type spiling and lay them up on the bench.

    Here are a couple of pages of photos. You'll notice that there are no frames in this hull. Each plank is glassed inside and out, making them very unlikely to split.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/48858202@N05/page1

    Laying up with strips allows you to follow the sweep of the plank with the strips, while at the same time allowing you to use narrow stock to your hearts content.

    I've never known anyone else to do it. Welcome to the very small and oh so exclusive (and elite ) club.

    Have at 'er, Bubba!



    Launch 008 by gib etheridge, on Flickr
    Why?

    If you are going to all of that trouble, why put laps or chines in there?

    @ Fredostli.
    Fred,
    I would mill close fitting tongue and groove edges to increase the gluing area.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Just strip plank .

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    thanks for the replies. my idea is to glue only two pieces together to get the width needed, just on the boards that need to be wider than what I am able to find in stock. I dont want to seal the wood either, but build it traditional clinker lapstrake. My only worry would be rot in the glued edges, but it might not be a problem as long as the wood breathe on the surface? It will also be a boat living on a trailer. The splines I glued with epoxy on my Nordlandsboat also seems to be fine...

    I am now building a glued boat, but I want my next project to be (almost) without glue.

    tongue and groove is a good ide. Maybe Titebond III would be good enough then..

    btw Nice project Gib

    Regards Fred

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Nick..."Why?

    If you are going to all of that trouble, why put laps or chines in there?"

    Well, there's the looks, for one.

    Another reason for that was that the additional thickness at the laps adds a bit of lateral stiffness, as if it had battens along the seams. I wanted that because I didn't want to clutter the hull with frames.

    Fred..."Maybe Titebond III would be good enough then.."

    TIII is stronger than epoxy, besides being non-toxic, cheaper and water cleanup. It's only shortcomings are that it has a short working time and is not at all gap filling.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    After spending time with Alfrd SÝvik,the famous Oselver builder at the end of my apprentice in Norway, I have wanted to build an Oselver. But they require 22" wide planks for the middle strake, which even here in the NW is not easily come by. So I thought that buying some nice 12" wide boards with some flat grain along one edge and gluing up would look terrific!
    Better yet would be some 6/4 or 8/4 stock like that and resaw down e middle to produce a very pleasing wide plank.
    Other than maybe temporarily backing up the glue line at the hood ends, there should be no problem with the glue line, the glue is stronger than the grain bond, I mean I have glued up transom stock, and wedge seamed planks, and not experienced any real issues.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    This thread makes me happy, because I see my idea is not too far off :-) Resawing and bookmatching is a great idea, and with my bandsaw mill... no problem at all!!!

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Not sure if it's appropriate to bump this being 2 years old or not, but seems better to keep related info together for future people searching so here it goes.

    I'm have a single plank that's wider than my stock (beautiful clear NWC) in a lapstrake dinghy, and I'm considering edge gluing to get the width (a dogleg scarf won't do it). Plank thickness is 1/4 inch, though I may bump to 5/16.

    For the people above that have edge glued their planks to create wider stock, are you [still] happy with the results? Any failures?

    @Gib Etheridge - those flickr links don't work anymore. Any chance you still have those photos kicking around and would be willing to repost?

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Sure. Different hull but same idea. Scarfing strips to full length;

    21.jpg

    22.jpg

    23.jpg

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    The challenge with TIII is getting it clamped up before the glue sets up, but if I could do it so can you. Dry fitting it first helps with that. One strip at a time then wait for the glue to set up.

    24.jpg

    This is of the entire plank having been removed and run thru the planer then glued and screwed and clamped in place. That's much easier than cleaning up the surfaces in place and very much worth the small amount of effort. You can see the bevel is already done. Much easier on the bench.

    27.jpg



    32.jpg
    Last edited by Gib Etheridge; 05-09-2019 at 10:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?


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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Gib, that looks like a potentially brilliant method to affect a repair of a lapstrake hull.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    I've been promoting it as a viable method for planking with short and narrow stock for a long time Paul. I haven't seen anyone else actually do it yet though.

    Another thing I really like about it is that the grain follows the sweep of the plank perfectly.

    It is tedious though. I've done plenty of planking with boards, this is slower for certain.

    Something that I may get around to trying one day will be to make a girder type spiling then build the entire plank on the bench to the spiling rather than on the hull. On the hull tends to hold it's shape more when it comes off for planing. That is an indication that it is just a bit more stable I suppose. On the bench one could easily lay up 2 or 3 or maybe even 4 strips at once. That would save a lot of time for sure. It would also save a lot work tapering the ends to have the spiling rather than fussing with it on the hull the way I've done so often.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Gib,

    Do I have it?

    Glue up strips on forms, to the size of a plank.
    Remove, plane smooth, the rehang and trim to fit.
    Hang plank.
    That’s it?

    It sounds like a nice way to have more stable “solid” wood lapstrake... especially for those of us who need glued construction for boats to work well (dry launched from a trailer in the desert...)

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Scarf strips to length.
    Plane S4S.
    Lay up a bit oversized with the proper sweep on the bench (a 2x12 on horses).
    Plane to thickness.
    Trace girder type spiling onto stock and cut it out.
    Plane the bevel for the lap.
    Dry fit, including some of the screw holes so you can get it right in place the first time once the glue is applied to the frames etc.

    After the garboard you'll be able to plane a constant bevel on one edge but will have to shape the other one, the one that overlaps the previous plank, by hook or by crook. There are some tricks to that, depending on the hull.

    Gottta get to it now.

    Bye.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Thanks for this Gib . Finished bright I think your work is handsomer than glued lap ply ,or the typical narrow strip planking (talk about tedious) . This is an interesting third way to make a boat that can be dry sailed , using the lumber readily available . I hope you’ll show more .

    I’ve slowed down a variety of glues by simply noting the min. application temp recommended by the manufacturer (47 degrees for Tight Bond 3) and chilling them to that approximate temp. By the time it’s spread, and the joint closed , the glue is comfortably up in normal temp . range.
    Last edited by Bill Perkins; 05-11-2019 at 09:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    Scarf strips to length.
    Plane S4S.
    Lay up a bit oversized with the proper sweep on the bench (a 2x12 on horses).
    Plane to thickness.
    Trace girder type spiling onto stock and cut it out.
    Plane the bevel for the lap.
    Dry fit, including some of the screw holes so you can get it right in place the first time once the glue is applied to the frames etc.

    After the garboard you'll be able to plane a constant bevel on one edge but will have to shape the other one, the one that overlaps the previous plank, by hook or by crook. There are some tricks to that, depending on the hull.

    Gottta get to it now.

    Bye.
    Gib,

    I fully grasp the method of building lapstrake. I did it twice before I realized I DID do it right, but itís just TOO hot and arid here to dry launch a boat what ainít glued.

    The making of your ďplanksĒ is what interested me, your method of making them. Thereís a wee lapstrake boat Iíve been wanting to build and own, but I donít want to buy imported ply, and I donít want to plank it in fir ply... Seems I might be able to work out somewhat like youíve done here. I can laminate them up to the estimated sweep of the plank,then spile them.

    Mayhaps some Gib-style glued lapstrake is in my future?

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Perkins View Post
    Thanks for this Gib . Finished bright I think your work is handsomer than glued lap ply ,or the typical narrow strip planking (talk about tedious) . This is an interesting third way to make a boat that can be dry sailed , using the lumber readily available . I hope you’ll show more .

    I’ve slowed down a variety of glues by simply noting the min. application temp recommended by the manufacturer (47 degrees for Tight Bond 3) and chilling them to that approximate temp. By the time it’s spread, and the joint closed , the glue is comfortably up in normal temp . range.
    Good idea Bill, and if the strips themselves were chilled it would work even better.

    The longest strip I can butter and get clamped up working alone before it get's too dried out is 21 feet, and that's only possible if I have all of the clamps laid out and ready. If I'm edge nailing it's helpful to have pre-drilled them. That also helps prevent the odd nail from blowing out one of the faces, so long as I've been careful enough to drill nice and square to the edge. Nailing instead of clamping allows installation of several strips in one day.

    Laying the plank up on the bench to a girder type spiling would be the cat's ass. Next small boat I'll give it a try.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Gib,

    I fully grasp the method of building lapstrake. I did it twice before I realized I DID do it right, but it’s just TOO hot and arid here to dry launch a boat what ain’t glued.

    The making of your “planks” is what interested me, your method of making them. There’s a wee lapstrake boat I’ve been wanting to build and own, but I don’t want to buy imported ply, and I don’t want to plank it in fir ply... Seems I might be able to work out somewhat like you’ve done here. I can laminate them up to the estimated sweep of the plank,then spile them.

    Mayhaps some Gib-style glued lapstrake is in my future?

    Peace,
    Robert
    I did some house carpentry in Vallejo for a while. We went to the local building materials recycle yard for redwood. Perhaps you have access to some of that. This method lends itself very well to using recycled lumber since you can get strips out from between the flaws pretty easily and since they are scarfed to length you can use shorts. If the strips are thick enough you can lay them up then resaw and get 2 for the work of one, and since most lumber is flat grain the thick strips would show vertical grain in the finished product, even better.

    Using thick strips would be best done on the bench, it would be difficult bending them to shape on the hull.

    Bright finished Redwood would make a handsome hull.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    I did some house carpentry in Vallejo for a while. We went to the local building materials recycle yard for redwood. Perhaps you have access to some of that. This method lends itself very well to using recycled lumber since you can get strips out from between the flaws pretty easily and since they are scarfed to length you can use shorts. If the strips are thick enough you can lay them up then resaw and get 2 for the work of one, and since most lumber is flat grain the thick strips would show vertical grain in the finished product, even better.

    Using thick strips would be best done on the bench, it would be difficult bending them to shape on the hull.

    Bright finished Redwood would make a handsome hull.
    Brother, I am the king of reclaim.

    In all honesty, though, I’d likely use pine, as trees are coming down like mad around here, and some of them are REALLY nice wood.

    I am not at all a bright work guy, so I’m not worried about that, but having “bookmatched” “planks” would be pretty slick. I actually planked my wee canoe that way, from split down 3/4” planks, leaving two, matching 1/4 pieces.

    Anyway. Seems like something worth thinking over. I have a boat in mind to plank lapstrake, and I even have a decent idea of the plank shapes, so I could make up the stock on a bench...

    Hmmm...

    Peace,
    My Thinking Brain HURTS Now

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    Default

    Gib, is the planks encapsulated in epoxy, or just treated with oil?

    Sent fra min SM-N950F via Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    I glued up the garboard planks on the Harry Bryan Thistle that I built. I was nervous because the planking is just 5/16" thick but it's been years and no problems. Also a no epoxy(almost) traditional build. Clench nails and tight joints. The whole boat is book matched, also. Not just the planking, decks, too.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    Gib, is the planks encapsulated in epoxy, or just treated with oil?

    Sent fra min SM-N950F via Tapatalk
    That was years ago and I don't remember clearly, but I think the garboard and bottom are glassed and painted and the rest is varnished with Minwax polyurethane varnish.

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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    Thanks for the info everyone. I've reached the point where I have to make a decision on this.

    Has anyone done the glue up while flat on the bench, then spiled, cut, and bent over forms? Would that stress the glue lines too much? I'm guessing the hood end of the garboard would be the biggest issue with all the twist.

    I'm thinking some G-flex epoxy would be strong enough and still able to take the flex without breaking. And maybe I can cut the plank out of the edge glued stock such that the glue line runs off prior to the hood end.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Edge glue boards for clinker lapstrake?

    I developed this system, on the hull, just because I could not get a wide and heavily twisted garboard, which was wide because I had edge glued straight boards together, to take the shape of the hull without breaking at the ends. The glue joints were OK, it was the cedar itself that split.

    Other approaches would have been to steam the plank, but the glue would have failed, or glass the face that would be under tension, the outer face, but that would have made it very difficult to bend. Except that it was more time consuming it was the perfect strategy and I liked it so much that I've done it several times now. For me it's state of the art.

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