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Thread: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

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    Default Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Trump is looking to make it harder for educated foreigners to get a US work visa.
    The idea is that the companies will then hire Americans.

    Do you think this is a good idea?

    Title: Trump orders review of visa program to encourage hiring Americans
    President Donald Trump on Tuesday ordered a review of the U.S. visa program for bringing high-skilled foreign workers into the country, putting technology firms and the outsourcing companies that serve them on notice that possible changes may be ahead.
    Seeking to carry out a campaign pledge to put "America First," Trump signed an executive order on the H-1B visa program. It was vague on many fronts, and did not change existing rules, but one objective, said Trump aides, is to modify or replace the current lottery for H-1B visas with a merit-based system that would restrict the visas to highly skilled workers. Indian nationals are the largest group of H-1B recipients annually.
    Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN17K02U

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    I don't know are Donald and Eric whining yet? Both are having problems finding Americans to pick the grapes and clean up Mar a Fiasco.

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Dumbest idea ever Genglandoh. But I'm sure he'll top it next week.

    From a purely self centered standpoint, not only should we make it easier for foreign nationals to come here for education and or work. We should make it easier for them to stay beyond what their short term visa allows. The real problem is that this causes a brain drain on many developing countries.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Dumbest idea ever Genglandoh. But I'm sure he'll top it next week.

    Not only should we make it easier for foreign nationals to come here for education and or work. We should make it easier for them to stay beyond what their short term visa allows. The real problem is that this causes a brain drain on many devsloping countries.
    The problem is the the companies who are hiring foreigners are paying very low salaries.

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    The problem is the the companies who are hiring foreigners are paying very low salaries.
    Cite please. You mean those silicon valley companies? Or those biotech companies? Or those pharmaceutical companies? Those are the hot employers of foriegn workers, discounting NYC modeling firms of course, and they all offer some of the best wages going.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    The problem is the the companies who are hiring foreigners are paying very low salaries.
    Trump pays high wages? Could have fooled us. And people dealing in agriculture have offered higher wages. A few took them up on it but, no American could get through an entire day working in the fields. Too hot, too hard! One interview had the manager say that only ONE lasted past lunch.

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Dumbest idea ever Genglandoh. But I'm sure he'll top it next week.

    From a purely self centered standpoint, not only should we make it easier for foreign nationals to come here for education and or work. We should make it easier for them to stay beyond what their short term visa allows. The real problem is that this causes a brain drain on many developing countries.
    But you still replied.........
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Cite please. You mean those silicon valley companies? Or those biotech companies? Or those pharmaceutical companies? Those are the hot employers of foriegn workers, discounting NYC modeling firms of course, and they all offer some of the best wages going.
    Title: Planned Trump Order Will Discourage Hiring of Low-Wage Foreign Workers
    President Trump is expected to sign an executive order on Tuesday aimed at making it harder for technology companies to recruit low-wage workers from foreign countries and undercut Americans looking for jobs.
    Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/18/u...y-workers.html

    Title: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas To Pay Low Wages To Immigrants
    This drafted executive order could actually mean higher wages for both foreign workers and Americans working in Silicon Valley.
    Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0522c7d3d84af

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Are you going to volunteer at Mar a Fiasco, he needs a few good boys!

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    If the H1-B visa was actually for people who couldn't be found in the American labour market, then it's gonna hurt you until the market adjusts. The question is how you want to hurt. Either scale down production, or cede the ground to foreign competitors, or pay higher wages to existing workers so they'll stay in the field.

    The visa system was intended to distort free market forces. Americans with those scarce skills should have seen their wages/benefits spike upwards, as employers competed to hire them. The H1-B was a subsidy to American employers, protecting them from that erosion of their profit margins, from the pressure to innovate or die.

    It was corporate welfare, paid for ... partly by American workers who didn't get the wages the free market would have provided. And it quite explicitly was a way America could be a "free-rider" taking advantage of other countries' education and training systems, while not meeting the labour demand in its own.
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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    If the H1-B visa was actually for people who couldn't be found in the American labour market, then it's gonna hurt you until the market adjusts. The question is how you want to hurt. Either scale down production, or cede the ground to foreign competitors, or pay higher wages to existing workers so they'll stay in the field.

    The visa system was intended to distort free market forces. Americans with those scarce skills should have seen their wages/benefits spike upwards, as employers competed to hire them. The H1-B was a subsidy to American employers, protecting them from that erosion of their profit margins, from the pressure to innovate or die.

    It was corporate welfare, paid for ... partly by American workers who didn't get the wages the free market would have provided. And it quite explicitly was a way America could be a "free-rider" taking advantage of other countries' education and training systems, while not meeting the labour demand in its own.
    Actually, if we have a labor shortage in some area, say, oncologists, we should give permanent status to people with those skills and their spouses. H1b gives the employer too much power over the imported labor.

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    I dont know if making it more difficult is the right answer. I do feel we as citizens aren't getting enough tax money from the companies who employ them.
    Make it more expensive for companies to bring them over.

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    The daughter was unable, finally, to get an H1-B visa for a skilled rehab position she was hired to do with a Maine school board. For all that the Maine employer had been unable to recruit to the position for about 2 years, due to the fact that ... well, it's in a tiny 2-bit town in Northern Maine, and they paid crap.

    The visa, well in progress (allegedly) in an accelerated processing stream, was declined once Trump took office. She was instead put into a lottery to receive a visa, which would possibly be in her hands by next October if she managed to get a successful lottery draw.

    This was a labour market distortion all 'round. The employer ought to have been able to respond to the recruiting difficulty by raising salary/benefits, but as a public sector employer couldn't. The visa system should have functioned as intended to enable qualified foreign workers to fill that labour market gap, but it didn't. So the kids in northern Maine who haven't been able to get speech language pathology services are going to suffer some more, with frankly no solution in sight.

    The daughter, on the other hand, has got work here in town. Her skills are in demand here too.
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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Damn, sorry to hear that Tom. Nuts! I was hoping she was enjoying her new job by now.

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Trump is looking to make it harder for educated foreigners to get a US work visa.
    The idea is that the companies will then hire Americans.

    Do you think this is a good idea?
    It is probably true that foreign high-skilled workers who come here under the H1-B visa program are underpaid... and it is definitely true that the terms of the H1-B visa program prevents these people from working for anyone but their sponsoring companies... you can thank big corporations and their client congressmen for that. The result: these employees have NO leverage, and this suppresses wages.

    It is also true that there is a shortage of highly skilled workers in many technology industries in the US... and oppressive student debt is one of the factors that discourages Americans from training for careers like that.

    Denying H1-B visas actually might be good for existing American workers, whose scarcity might result in increasing salaries... but it is NOT going to create the kind of educated workers who will then become scarce. Watch for THIS idea to eventually die of it's own stupidity.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Seeking to carry out a campaign pledge to put "America First," Trump signed an executive order on the H-1B visa program.
    Trump is a complete hypocrite on this point, since he has used guest worker visas extensively, hiring VERY few Americans for jobs at his hotels, resorts, and golf clubs... not to mention Trump-branded goods, made everywhere EXCEPT in the US.
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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Higher wages for foreign and US tech employees is just trump's pay back to all those brie sipping, liberal Silicon Valley elites... who will simply pass the costs along to us as consumers. Zero accomplished.

    I think we're done with this one.

    LMAO
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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Well - there is the Disney case - where US workers were replaced by foreign ones at much lower wages & the US workers even had to train their replacements!

    I think we need the special visas - but there should be language that prevents simply replacing US workers with lower paid foreign ones.

    @BlueFin (post #12): Tax companies more? How un-Republican!
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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    Damn, sorry to hear that Tom. Nuts! I was hoping she was enjoying her new job by now.
    It was entirely maddening. In the interview process she'd been assured that everything was going to be quick and easy, entirely handled by their well practiced HR lawyers ... but actually, they didn't much know what to do. She ended up educating the administrative team on a bunch of the processes, their requirements in them, and the communications glitches and silos were ... impressive.

    It occurred to me that really didn't bode well for a stress-free HR relationship, so I wasn't altogether upset when things fell apart. In fact, I felt for some time that the HR folks were actually hoping that the daughter would find other work, so they wouldn't need to do the necessary paperwork to withdraw the offer they'd made ... and expose the incompetent administrative work on their end which made it necessary.

    Oh well.
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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post

    @BlueFin (post #12): Tax companies more? How un-Republican!
    yeah that caught me out too
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    LOL. Never said I was Republican. I'm anti Dim/Lib on a lot of issues but not always. I just despise many of your team players. I lean conservative which is usually in the Rep's pocket but again not always.
    On this HIB Visa, it's been way too easy for corps to just bring in a Mr Iqbol for half the money than to canvass the various universities and find an American to do the job. Now there are times when that's not easily done but what I've seen in the oil and gas sector it could easily be done. The issue in the oil and gas was they needed someone right then and there who could do it so training was a big issue. Today that's not such a big deal.
    The Googles and other IT companies need to get our universities up to their speed. Cutting off or limiting their H1B visas would certainly encourage that.

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefin2 View Post
    ...The Googles and other IT companies need to get our universities up to their speed. Cutting off or limiting their H1B visas would certainly encourage that.
    Or offshore the work.
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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Yes. AS LONG AS US corporations are willing to pay US workers fair wages for doing the same work. I expect the CEO's of all sorts of tech companies will find that unacceptable. Of course, they'll mask their objections behind the complaint that they just can't find enough US workers willing to do the jobs.

    Then there's the issue of the H-2B visas for non-technology workers. If H-1B visas are a problem for the US, why aren't H-2B visas ? Hint: Guess who makes up the majority of Mar A Lago employees.
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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    harder for educated foreigners to get a US work visa.
    Decent economic thinkers holler that our aging workforce has to be supplemented by all kinds of immigrant workers.
    Regressives like Trump and the crazy governor we've got here in Maine can't see jack****.
    Study Peace

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Only if we want to shut out the world's best and brightest.

    I think this is an incredibly stupid notion. This is the result of xenophobia..
    .
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 04-19-2017 at 05:15 PM.
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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    Only if we want to shut out the world's best and brightest.

    I think this is an incredibly stupid notion. This is the result of xenophobia..
    .
    Follow the money, not the wages, the profits.
    Promoting Xenophobia is just to sell it to the rubes.
    to quote: "Trump is a complete hypocrite on this point, since he has used guest worker visas extensively, hiring VERY few Americans for jobs at his hotels, resorts, and golf clubs... not to mention Trump-branded goods, made everywhere EXCEPT in the US."
    His interests as a businessman should disqualify him, and likely a big percentage of congress, from having any part in these decisions.

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    If the H1-B visa was actually for people who couldn't be found in the American labour market, then it's gonna hurt you until the market adjusts. The question is how you want to hurt. Either scale down production, or cede the ground to foreign competitors, or pay higher wages to existing workers so they'll stay in the field.

    The visa system was intended to distort free market forces. Americans with those scarce skills should have seen their wages/benefits spike upwards, as employers competed to hire them. The H1-B was a subsidy to American employers, protecting them from that erosion of their profit margins, from the pressure to innovate or die.

    It was corporate welfare, paid for ... partly by American workers who didn't get the wages the free market would have provided. And it quite explicitly was a way America could be a "free-rider" taking advantage of other countries' education and training systems, while not meeting the labour demand in its own.
    Assuming the United States to be a closed system, perhaps. But otherwise, in a free market labor just goes where the work is. It is laws and borders impeding labor's free movement that distorts a free market. So work visas free up the market. Trump now plans to stifle free markets by making the visas harder to get. So I don't think it was corporate welfare so much as corporate freedom to hire whomever it was to their advantage to hire. Labour, management, and politicians want free markets when it gets them what they want, ie, jobs, profits, and votes. The same players want controlled markets when free markets don't get them what they want.
    Last edited by JimD; 04-19-2017 at 07:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Only for country club owners who who are too cheap to hire Americans.

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Harder compared to what?

    I don't think there's any magic number for how many H1-B visas should be allowed. There's always been a limit. It goes up and down.

    Generally speaking, though, a company that abuses H1-B visas to underpay workers is probably inclined to do so through lots of means. If you cut off H1-Bs, certainly they'll manage labor costs downwards using other means. Not passing judgement, just observing. So I doubt the Trump order will save anybody's job or wages.

    Similarly, generally speaking, the countries that win are open, are the place everyone wants to live and work in, and enable abundance rather than protecting against scarcity. We do not have the numbers to compete with China or India. But we are still the university destination of choice for the best young brains on the planet. When they graduate we want to send them home? Idiocy.

    As in every other area Trump is playing not to lose. I'd rather we play to win. As our President will tweet "Sad!"

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    Default Re: Do you think the US should make it harder for foreigners to get work visas?

    Lots of software engineers from India worked for Microsoft in Redmond. Quite a few have been recruited by newly founded Indian companies where their salaries get them mansions, chauffeurs, and world class education for their kids.
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