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Thread: Pointy ends or transoms?

  1. #1
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    Default Pointy ends or transoms?

    Im getting close to final drawings and construction templates for a skin on frame dinghy. I have just come across this picture, and although my transom bow is a little smaller and shaped a little different, the pointy full stern is similar, though with far more spring in the sheer.






    Given the majority of boats have a pointy front end, how many of you find this "reversed" set up completely objectionable? Having spent so much time on the Mariette beach pram design, i got used to it and find it an attractive alternative......though i expect i am in a minority.

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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    Not sure what you're saying here. Given the position of the thole pins, thwarts, and stern sheets, it's pretty obvious that the bow of this boat is the "pointy end" with the stem coming up proud. The stern has a tucked transom. This design is interestingly asymmetrical fore and aft. It looks like the waterlines are fuller aft and finer forward but up the topsides a bit to the gunnel she's fuller forward.

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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    If you're designing a boat with a transom bow and a pointy stern I look forward to seeing it. But like Ian says, that doesn't seem to be what this is.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    It also has a mooring made fast at the pointy end

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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    He may not be quite as daft as he seems.

    On the western coast of Jylland (Jutland to the English) they ttraditionally use a type of boat called pram with a small transom forward and a pointy aft end. Those boats are launched off the beach stern first and hauled ashore bow first. I suppose the weird hull shape is an adaption to the adverse landing conditions.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    10 out of 10 for spotting that. But that is kind of my point. If the interior was removed, would you still have been so quick to reach a conclusion to what end was the bow?

    Heimlaga, thankyou for attempting to reduce the perceived amount of daftness, the type you describe is very much the old prams from NW Denmark. All that aside, it would seem many may judge a boat by what end it has a mooring warp hanging off.......

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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    We have, of course, had discussion of Danish prams before, including those with transom bows, albeit mighty tiny, and pointy stern, albeit very very full.



    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-beach-Havpram

    Note that the bow is more pram-like not for the transom but for the planking pattern moving to what's almost a flat bottom coming up the bow. And the stern does come to a horn that goes all the way up but the bearings of the stern all all there and there is nothing double-ended about this boat.

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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    10 out of 10 for spotting that. But that is kind of my point. If the interior was removed, would you still have been so quick to reach a conclusion to what end was the bow?

    Heimlaga, thankyou for attempting to reduce the perceived amount of daftness, the type you describe is very much the old prams from NW Denmark. All that aside, it would seem many may judge a boat by what end it has a mooring warp hanging off.......
    Has anyone here said it was daft? Why not show us your design. It sounds interesting.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    I like to squash up in the skinny aft end of my two bow dingy to hold fast.
    Sometimes in my wife's beamy dingy, there is just TOO much room and I slide all over the place.
    Sailing only of course.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    Being accustomed to the doubleenders of Österbotten and Västerbotten I find it natural that the bow end of a boat to be used in steep waves is a bit beamier and has a bit more flare to the sides. Because the stern has to sink a little in the water to allow the bow to climb over a steep wave.
    I also find it natural that boats built for use on the open sea with longer swells are roughly symetrical to get more reserve boyancy aft for sailing downwind in heavy swells.
    Anyway two pointy ends make the boat cleave the waves and ride dry on top of them whatever direction they come from.
    To me a transom is just a bad compromize you may end up with to accomodate an outboard motor or to make the boat a more practical work platform.

    Though there are very often many ways of achieving the same results in boatbuilding as well as local landing conditions and otrher pecularities to take into account. For instance a Northhumberland cobble seems like a totally daft design until you realize what sort of landing conditions they have down there...... and suddenly you realize that the cobble builders and fishermen weren't daft at all.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    Here's a link to a video (from the Bilge) of Greek fishing boats; www.kathimerini.gr/861686/gallery/multimedia/vinteo-k/ta-kaikia-pe8ainoyn-sth-steria

    There's footage of one that has put everything right up front, a clipper bow (?) with a wineglass transom tucked in behind it. Don't remember if there was a view of the other end. With a beginning like that, who needs an ending?

    ZZ

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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    We have, of course, had discussion of Danish prams before, including those with transom bows, albeit mighty tiny, and pointy stern, albeit very very full.



    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-beach-Havpram

    Note that the bow is more pram-like not for the transom but for the planking pattern moving to what's almost a flat bottom coming up the bow. And the stern does come to a horn that goes all the way up but the bearings of the stern all all there and there is nothing double-ended about this boat.
    The Mariette pram was designed so that it could easily be launched and recovered from a trailer, much like its parent model being launched and recovered on a beach. There was a few people who did not like the shape.......so, im working on drawing up a bow alternative on the SOF dinghy so that a choice could be made between small transom bow or a sharp stem, given a slightly larger bow transom of the right shape, battens could just be extended to a stem to produce a sharp bow, but that comes at a cost of compromising what i might find to be a nice transom bow section, at least with the current batten set up. I should just build the boat i find attractive and be done with it.......

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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    Not to point out that the Emperor is buck nekkid here, but the boat in the first post clearly has a pointy bow and flat stern. There are boats that have pointy sterns and tiny, raised pram bows -- but none to my knowledge that have a pointy stern and low pram bow in the water.

    In special cases some hulls are designed to move backwards through waves and swell -- I'm thinking of those traditional boats along England's NW shore that return to shore stern-first (can't remember the name right now). But to answer the question as asked, yes I'd find rowing a boat like that to be objectionable, and given the preponderance of powerboat wakes on most of today's waters, can only imagine how hard it would be to row through wakes with a low pram bow -- no matter what shape the aft shape was.
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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Not to point out that the Emperor is buck nekkid here, but the boat in the first post clearly has a pointy bow and flat stern. There are boats that have pointy sterns and tiny, raised pram bows -- but none to my knowledge that have a pointy stern and low pram bow in the water.

    In special cases some hulls are designed to move backwards through waves and swell -- I'm thinking of those traditional boats along England's NW shore that return to shore stern-first (can't remember the name right now).
    They are cobles, and the deep bow and shallow raking square stern meant that the pilot cobles had to be towed stern first when being returned to port.


    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    Thanks, Nick - that was the hull design I was trying to remember. Gotta be one of the more unique hull requirements that was commonly used in a particular area.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    more cobels in action! (check out the mast rake... I thought it was camera lens distortion at first!




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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    Paul Fisher has a few coble designs. I've often been tempted to buy plans.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Pointy ends or transoms?

    Allow me to submit my own odd idea: set it up to row in both directions. As long as the waterline is reasonably symmetrical, and the transom is way out of the water, it should row fine in both directions. You'll figure out pretty quickly which direction works better for you. I suspect both will have advantages under different conditions. If you're planning to make one end of the waterline significantly more bulbous than the other, then I suppose my idea won't work out so well. But in my experience, a pretty symmetrical waterline tends to make for good rowing anyway.

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