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Thread: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

  1. #1
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    Default Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question





    I was looking at the various porn photos of the Friendship 40. They obviously got rid of the traveller to remove the deck clutter. The depowering of the main without a traveller can not be as precise but there is some upsides too. Considering this is a 800k boat comes with this hydraulic system - it has to be smooth and the hard vang strong. The designers are touting this as effective. Considering the direction and obvious ease in string control - i though i would consider this adaptation in future projects.

    If someone has a link to how this is done or done a similar design layout that would be super.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 04-13-2017 at 01:44 PM.
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    Used to sail flying scots, which have no traveller and rely on vang sheeting. Lots of stress on things, iirc people would go up to 24:1 purchase on their vang (maybe it was 16:1). masts would break if they left they vang on too tight on a hard gybe. but still, very functional for day sailing.

    I would hate that system for a large boat.

  3. #3
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    Considering the friendship's mainsheet is at the end of the boom and end of cockpit, a curve traveller track sure seems more functional on that boat.

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    Default Re: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

    No traveller here


    or here

    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

    Massive vang loading, often they're hydraulic to cope. I have no problem with a short or no traveller but it seems reasonable to me that you would take that system with the attitude that you should accept less control.

    Reminds me over that new superyacht that left here a few years ago.... had one of those 'lets bet everything on a single part mainsheet' system.
    Gybed , mainsheet broke depite the megaton loading it was supposed to have, vang loaded the gooseneck and put a zip line up the back of the carbon mast, 2 guys trying to get the sail off went overboard on their tethers but chucked back on with the next wave.( Superyachts tend not to have nonskid on their cabintops)
    Made it back to NZ , cost 6 million to repair.

    And locally we have an investigation still going on into a yachting tragedy, but certainly and very obviously one of the aspects of those fatalities is

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

    From more research... It might be the Carboni Magic trim - 2 hydraulics with rods which doubles the payout. Although complicated - it does extend a sailing life or enables those with disabilities to get to sail in larger vessels without adding strength and leverage needs.



    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 04-13-2017 at 04:00 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

    As long as you remember that a vang like that is Robin Hood trying to put your gooseneck up somewhere around the forestay, and that the rig and fittings are engineered for it.
    There are fatalities here due largely or perhaps in part to an exploding hydraulic vang.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    As long as you remember that a vang like that is Robin Hood trying to put your gooseneck up somewhere around the forestay, and that the rig and fittings are engineered for it.
    There are fatalities here due largely or perhaps in part to an exploding hydraulic vang.
    That is a good comment to consider as most haven't heard much about these design failures and the attempted overloading. It fall under push button times we are living.
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    Default Re: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Massive vang loading, often they're hydraulic to cope. I have no problem with a short or no traveller but it seems reasonable to me that you would take that system with the attitude that you should accept less control.

    Reminds me over that new superyacht that left here a few years ago.... had one of those 'lets bet everything on a single part mainsheet' system.
    Gybed , mainsheet broke depite the megaton loading it was supposed to have, vang loaded the gooseneck and put a zip line up the back of the carbon mast, 2 guys trying to get the sail off went overboard on their tethers but chucked back on with the next wave.( Superyachts tend not to have nonskid on their cabintops)
    Made it back to NZ , cost 6 million to repair.

    And locally we have an investigation still going on into a yachting tragedy, but certainly and very obviously one of the aspects of those fatalities is
    +1. After all, it's a daysailer.

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    It's a modern fractional rig. less control is not what its about. Those rigs is mast bending and such as the first reef. I like them. But they should have a traveller.

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    Default Re: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

    We reached down about 20 miles yesterday afternoon in 15 to 16 knots or so. Failed to get enough vang on ..I was thinking about this thread. But we had a hull wave cresting out behind the boat and a compromise twisted off set was doing the job so it wasn't a concern. If there had been more wind we might have wanted it strapped down and bladed off a bit. Over the years I've seen quite a bit of overstressed vangs though...I tend to allow some movement there so perhaps I'm too far in that camp.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

    Vang Vang and more Vang. Travelers can be made unnecessary by designing the mast boom and vang system to provide all the necessary down force at the boom end to make the leech stand. This can be done piecemeal, but on a new design it is pretty straight forward. These mega day boats have big complex hydraulic systems so that no one risks their manicures touching a rope other than a dock line, so it is just a case of specifying the right ram and remembering what button to push.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

    A very pretty boat rigged according to values exactly opposite mine. All that hydraulics to control what are actually small easily handled sails. And I really hate the main sheet for two reasons. First, one good thing - it's end of boom sheeting. But when the hydraulics fail, what a pain to handle. If there's a reel take-up, it's a bit interesting to gybe. If not, someone is rooting around pretty low to manage the sheet. And the center lead means that the sheet must lay across the leeward helm seat when off the wind.

    The only reason I can find for this rig would be to make her accessible for people with physical challenges. But the cockpit seating arrangement shows that access was not even remotely on the designer's mind. Nothing but gratuitous "ease".

    Not for me, despite her undoubted beauty of hull and rig.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

    Neither my Dovekie nor my Shearwater Yawl had travelers, the sheet being trimmed through blocks atop the rudder heads. However, both being sprit rigged, their sails had plenty of downward force at the clew.

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    Default Re: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    No traveller here


    Nice pic of the Dartmouth Lower Ferry, Nick !
    Nick

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Modern daysailing sloops without traveller question

    On a much smaller scale I race a 20 ft sloop of about 320kg + 2 crew. Over many years most boats have moved from a center boom traveler to vang sheeting system. Ie powerful vane and split tail main sheet with each end made off to opposite sides then a couple of purchases in then center and onto a rachet block and cleat. The split tail sheet effectifly means you are pulling the boom up from the windward rail. This reduces sheet load as its a more horizontal pull. Also in light winds it enables you to keep the boom well centered without the down force on the Boom closing up the leach.
    Certainly getting rid of the traveler frees up a lot of deck space.
    However without a good vang you either need a wide traveler or double sheets on either side to enable you to control sail twist.
    Lots of boats made do with just center sheeting or a little short traveler but look at the amount of sail twist they have. Another option is just to use a very heavy boom.
    You should be able to control small and medium displacement boats using a rope system for vang and main sheet. it's just a matter of how many purchases you fit. Hydraulics are great but can use significant power. If you are going that way in a white boat situation make sure that you deal with recognised suppliers and installers. These are expensive items and getting it wrong is costly.
    Zane
    In the interest of full disclosure I make my living selling hydraulic hoses and components.
    Last edited by Zane Lewis; 04-26-2017 at 07:36 AM.

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