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Thread: Sea Gold

  1. #1
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    Default Sea Gold

    Having finished wooding the mahogany rubrail on my skiff, I'm ready to try Pettit's new Seagold finish. The recommended prewash before applying is Pettit brushing liquid. That product sells for $20 a quart,half of the price of the Seagold itself, so I'm wondering if that product is really necessary, or would any other be useful. Any ideas?

    Best regards,

    Irv

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    You're setting off into unknown territory. A proprietary, non-traditional, formulation of topcoat. Kudos for your sense of adventure. I'm glad there are optimists like you around to beta-test the latest MarvelMagicGoop.

    Traditional finishes have proven Finishing Schedules (sanding plan, dust removal requirements & techniques, sealers, topcoating timing, etc.)... and many well-explored short-cuts or variations. A proven body of knowledge, with a wider known path to success.

    YOU, however, have none of that. What you have is a new product, and the manufacturer's instructions. These highly-engineered products tend to be much more specific/fussy about their requirements. A narrower range of paths to success.

    So... think about the time you'll have invested in that finish. Think about how much work it will require to re-do it. Think about the notion that these new miracle finishes are sometimes not compatible with traditional products, and would require extensive prep in order to start over with spar varnish, or somesuch.

    Now decide whether the consequences of potential failure are worth the expense of the proprietary thinner.

    As you might have gathered from the tone of this rant - I think doing ANYTHING except following the manufacturer's recommendations to the letter is... well, let's just be polite and say, 'ill-considered'.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Now Dave, ... You are starting to sound a bit like Bob Cleek there.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Irv

    In these situations, I always look up the contents/ ingredients of the product. Sometimes all it is a common solvent re-packaged as "Acme Wonder Sauce." Of course, sometimes it IS a wondrous concoction, made to prep the surface for the finish.

    In this case, Googling Pettit Brushing Liquid Material Safety Data Sheet ( MSDS), reveals it's mostly a combination of benzene, naptha and xylene.

    http://www.pettitpaint.com/fileshare...s/11212006.pdf

    At this point, we see that its not 90-percent one product. If it was, I'd check my solvent supply. But since it's not just one solvent, I see that, online, Naptha costs $20 bucks a quart, Xylene costs $12 bucks a quart, and I am not sure even where to buy benzene. It makes no sense to mix my own cocktail. Ergo, I would spend the $18 bucks on the Brushing Thinner.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Thanks, All. Very sound advice- the brushing liquid it will be. I am hopeful about the finish, but we will see. I'll post occasional updates as the season progresses.

    Thanks again.

    Irv

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Irv Mac Dowell View Post
    Thanks, All. Very sound advice- the brushing liquid it will be. I am hopeful about the finish, but we will see. I'll post occasional updates as the season progresses.

    Thanks again.

    Irv
    I'll be interested to see how it does. Can you let us know how many coats & general area where the boat lives? IOW - 6 months of South Florida is a bit tougher on finishes than 6 months in Nova Scotia...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    The boat is in CT, in a slip for about five months from May to September. I expect to apply about six coats. The specs say 2-3 coats a day, given good weather. The boat is stored inside a well-ventilated barn, so sunlight and rain will not be a factor while the finish is applied. I'm interested to see how the matte finish looks and how well it will stand up to the weather. Apparently it is possible to apply gloss varnish over it, though that would preclude easily repairing the finish, should it be necessary.

    Irv

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by nedL View Post
    Now Dave, ... You are starting to sound a bit like Bob Cleek there.
    As they say, "Great minds think alike!"

    Let somebody else spend the money and take the risk "beta testing" new products... and the greater the claims about a new product, the truer this wisdom is. We've seen dozens and dozens of "new mousetraps" come and go over the years, but they are still making the old-fashioned ones.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Irv Mac Dowell View Post
    The boat is in CT, in a slip for about five months from May to September. I expect to apply about six coats. The specs say 2-3 coats a day, given good weather. The boat is stored inside a well-ventilated barn, so sunlight and rain will not be a factor while the finish is applied. I'm interested to see how the matte finish looks and how well it will stand up to the weather. Apparently it is possible to apply gloss varnish over it, though that would preclude easily repairing the finish, should it be necessary.

    Irv
    Thanks!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Irv Mac Dowell View Post
    Thanks, All. Very sound advice- the brushing liquid it will be. I am hopeful about the finish, but we will see. I'll post occasional updates as the season progresses.

    Thanks again.

    Irv
    Definitely keep us posted.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by nedL View Post
    Now Dave, ... You are starting to sound a bit like Bob Cleek there.
    Well now... disagree if you must, but you DON'T have to be insulting about it!!!
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    As they say, "Great minds think alike!"

    Let somebody else spend the money and take the risk "beta testing" new products... and the greater the claims about a new product, the truer this wisdom is. We've seen dozens and dozens of "new mousetraps" come and go over the years, but they are still making the old-fashioned ones.
    Yes. I'm not quite as severe as Jay Greer, who abjures any product made after 1903. Some modern products are, in fact, better. However, like the Cleekster I am very suspicious of any modern miracle clear wood coating.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post

    In this case, Googling Pettit Brushing Liquid Material Safety Data Sheet ( MSDS), reveals it's mostly a combination of benzene, naptha and xylene.

    http://www.pettitpaint.com/fileshare...s/11212006.pdf

    Kevin

    So lets see..... The Seagold's attributes are clean up with soap and water and it has low VOCs. Yet, the pre-treatment consists of at least three nasty things:

    naptha is the least toxic but I wouldn't want it up my nose
    xylene will give me a violent headache in seconds
    and benzene is a known carcinogen

    Help! The future is killing us.


    Jeff

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    I now have 4 coats of Sea Gold on the inside of my new Lightning, which is the minimum recommended on the label. I used the Pettit brushing thinner for the wipedown.

    Sea Gold went on very nicely without thinning and dried very quickly. My nose isn't very sensitive, but I didn't notice any smell aside from the thinner. If I had had more energy, I would have been able to do 2-3 coats a day without sanding in between, but my back limited me to half of the boat each day.

    It has a satin finish, and it is hard to tell that it is even there. No gloss whatsoever. And it only darkens the wood a tiny bit, so the various kinds of wood will show themselves in all of their various shades.

    After getting used to it, I like the look very much.

    As I have mentioned, my Lightning will live on a trailer in the shade with a dry sail cover, so the varnish will have quite light duty, relatively speaking . . .

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Drying very quickly isn't an asset sometimes. If you have a large surface, it's difficult to keep a wet edge going. You end up with a series of "lands", and brush marks.

    Nearly all modern coatings need a slow-er-er, unless applied in cool moist situations.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    So lets see..... The Seagold's attributes are clean up with soap and water and it has low VOCs. Yet, the pre-treatment consists of at least three nasty things:

    naptha is the least toxic but I wouldn't want it up my nose
    xylene will give me a violent headache in seconds
    and benzene is a known carcinogen

    Help! The future is killing us.


    Jeff
    I think Kevin is mistaken; check the data sheet for the thinners for Pettit's water based products. Their SeaGold brochure gives very non-toxic prep instructions...
    pvg

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    Drying very quickly isn't an asset sometimes. If you have a large surface, it's difficult to keep a wet edge going. You end up with a series of "lands", and brush marks.

    Nearly all modern coatings need a slow-er-er, unless applied in cool moist situations.
    This is exactly what Pettit says the brushing thinner is for; to extend wet edge time.
    pvg

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by pvg View Post
    I think Kevin is mistaken; check the data sheet for the thinners for Pettit's water based products. Their SeaGold brochure gives very non-toxic prep instructions...
    pvg
    I just read their instructions for Sea Gold, and Petit's 120 Brushing Thinner is mentioned in several places. It seems that they want the user to be sure to remove any oil contaminants on the bare wood or previous coatings. I'm guessing that somebody in sales didn't fully coordinate with the guys in the lab.

    To be fair, it could be that most manufacturers of water borne finish products recommend the same sort of pre-treatment. I'll admit that I'm not a good label reader... or instruction follower.

    Jeff

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    I just read their instructions for Sea Gold, and Petit's 120 Brushing Thinner is mentioned in several places. It seems that they want the user to be sure to remove any oil contaminants on the bare wood or previous coatings. I'm guessing that somebody in sales didn't fully coordinate with the guys in the lab.

    To be fair, it could be that most manufacturers of water borne finish products recommend the same sort of pre-treatment. I'll admit that I'm not a good label reader... or instruction follower.

    Jeff
    I stand corrected.
    pvg

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Further on the Seagold rollout: I attempted to buy the recommended thinner at West Marine and at Defender Industries--no go. They had no knowledge of Pettit 140 water-baed thinner/brushing liquid. The can calls for it, though their website calls for 102, a conventional benzene/toluene thinner. Called tech support at Pettit. Their response was that the new thinner recommended on the can had not been released and shipped. I asked for a recommendation. He suggested a damp rag with water, though he didn't sound all that sure. So, again, it appears that Pettit got ahead of themselves here. Now to apply and stand back and wait.

    Best regards,

    Irv

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Irv Mac Dowell View Post
    Further on the Seagold rollout: I attempted to buy the recommended thinner at West Marine and at Defender Industries--no go. They had no knowledge of Pettit 140 water-baed thinner/brushing liquid. The can calls for it, though their website calls for 102, a conventional benzene/toluene thinner. Called tech support at Pettit. Their response was that the new thinner recommended on the can had not been released and shipped. I asked for a recommendation. He suggested a damp rag with water, though he didn't sound all that sure. So, again, it appears that Pettit got ahead of themselves here. Now to apply and stand back and wait.

    Best regards,

    Irv
    Happy beta-testing <G>
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Sea Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by nedL View Post
    Now Dave, ... You are starting to sound a bit like Bob Cleek there.
    ...
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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