Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567 LastLast
Results 176 to 210 of 215

Thread: San Bernardino school shooting.

  1. #176
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Austin, TX, USA
    Posts
    309

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jack grebe View Post
    Out of curiosity, how did you come to the conclusion that the 22 is
    THE MOST DEADLY ROUND?
    Jack - found this: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...5152128AAfPrFF
    That statement is a truism, which is not entirely true. Not counting military ammunition during war time the lowly .22 LR probably has killed and injured more people than any other round. Why? Because it is universally available, cheap and common-place. At one time this round was preferred even by professional hit men because weapons chambered for it were cheap, easy to ditch and so numerous that they were virtually untraceable. The round is also quite deadly. When fired out of the short barrel of a pistol or revolver it normally has just enough 'power' to penetrate the torso then it will tend to ricochet all over the place inflicting serious and even life-ending injuries. Same thing when fired out of a rifle at further range. In other words, it seldom makes for a clean through-n-through wound.

    Does this make it the deadliest round in the world? Consider the following: The best one-shot stopper yet is the .357 Magnum followed closely by the .45 acp. In all-out war the military calibers have probably accounted for far more deaths than the .22 LR even though it still is certainly one of the top deadliest rounds in terms of loss of life.

  2. #177
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefin2 View Post
    That sounds like fun. When you say 'high power rifle', what calibre? Were scopes allowed?
    in the broadest sense, high power simply meant center fire... must of been some exceptions but center fire just the same
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  3. #178
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    central, FL
    Posts
    11,838

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Does that make it the " deadliest " or just the most common available inexpensively ?
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

  4. #179
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jack grebe View Post
    Does that make it the " deadliest " or just the most common available inexpensively ?
    probably depends on the agenda of the speaker
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  5. #180
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    central, FL
    Posts
    11,838

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    To me, deadliest would mean lowest survival rate per round........
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

  6. #181
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    77,695

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    in the broadest sense, high power simply meant center fire...
    i thought high power was coined regarding a target competition type using military type rifles, i thought it originally came about at the same time the u.s. military adopted smokeless powder cartridges. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  7. #182
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    i thought high power was coined regarding a target competition type using military type rifles, i thought it originally came about at the same time the u.s. military adopted smokeless powder cartridges. . .
    perhaps but in my lifetime it was applied to bottle neck centerfire rifles... no one ever called a .44-40 a high power though

    upon further reflection, no one ever called a 45-70 high power either
    Last edited by Phillip Allen; 04-18-2017 at 07:42 AM.
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  8. #183
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    44,246

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Sorry guys, but there is something so completely bizarre about a guy going bonkers and murdering his ex-wife and one of her students, and then you turning it into a technical discussion of ammunition?? What the hell is WRONG with you people??
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  9. #184
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    central, FL
    Posts
    11,838

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Actually I said the .22 is the most deadly round.

    What were these cheap handguns used for ? And I don't think it was for an Olympic sport.



    For the gun nuts this is a Colt Banker’s Special DA revolver, .22 cal., 2” round barrel, blue finish, checkered Colt medallion wood grips
    Yup, if I was going to get shot and had my choice of firearms,
    That one would be right up there at the top of the list.......

    If I'm going to be SHOT, I want a high rate of survival.........
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

  10. #185
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Austin, TX, USA
    Posts
    309

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Sounds like we all have interpretation issues.
    For me deadly and lethal are 2 different meanings. More have died as a result of .22 shots but most probably due to prolonged injuries whereas lethal is dead in less than a minute.
    High power for me is anything over .300 calibre. Has to be capable of one shot kills, pass thru penetration and being able to take down a larger animal.
    Rifle/center-fire: same thing. Just means the type of fire arm.

    These are just my interpretations in my discussions w/ other gun owners. Doesn't mean it's the same for everyone.

  11. #186
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    central, FL
    Posts
    11,838

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Sorry guys, but there is something so completely bizarre about a guy going bonkers and murdering his ex-wife and one of her students, and then you turning it into a technical discussion of ammunition?? What the hell is WRONG with you people??
    Not what's wrong........ What's right.....way to much misinformation out there.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

  12. #187
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Sorry guys, but there is something so completely bizarre about a guy going bonkers and murdering his ex-wife and one of her students, and then you turning it into a technical discussion of ammunition?? What the hell is WRONG with you people??
    I though it was one of those mass shooting things... dead children everywhere and a stand off with the 'authorities'. it certainly has been spoken of as such (here in the bilge)
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  13. #188
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefin2 View Post
    Sounds like we all have interpretation issues.
    For me deadly and lethal are 2 different meanings. More have died as a result of .22 shots but most probably due to prolonged injuries whereas lethal is dead in less than a minute.
    High power for me is anything over .300 calibre. Has to be capable of one shot kills, pass thru penetration and being able to take down a larger animal.
    Rifle/center-fire: same thing. Just means the type of fire arm.

    These are just my interpretations in my discussions w/ other gun owners. Doesn't mean it's the same for everyone.
    be careful, a .270 is less than .300 and very high powered
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  14. #189
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Actually I said the .22 is the most deadly round.

    What were these cheap handguns used for ? And I don't think it was for an Olympic sport.



    For the gun nuts this is a Colt Banker’s Special DA revolver, .22 cal., 2” round barrel, blue finish, checkered Colt medallion wood grips
    that is certainly not cheap
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  15. #190
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Austin, TX, USA
    Posts
    309

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    True and a really good calibre. So is a 22/250.
    Probably should've added ability to knock down.

  16. #191
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    1,482

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    What the hell is WRONG with you people??
    cal·lous·ness
    ˈkaləsnəs/
    noun
    noun: callousness

    • insensitive and cruel disregard for others.




  17. #192
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Douglasville, Ga
    Posts
    3,650

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    I though it was one of those mass shooting things... dead children everywhere and a stand off with the 'authorities'. it certainly has been spoken of as such (here in the bilge)
    How would that change Keith's statement?
    Tom

  18. #193
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    cal·lous·ness
    ˈkaləsnəs/
    noun
    noun: callousness

    • insensitive and cruel disregard for others.



    once there was an incident involving a woman and her two 9 year old sons defending herself and her sons with a gun... one of our members thought she should be imprisoned for shooting the man who sought them out in their hiding place... there were many here who thought she should not have defended herself and her family

    calloused
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  19. #194
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    How would that change Keith's statement?
    it doesn't change it all... did you think it should?
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  20. #195
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    1,482

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.


  21. #196
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    yes it is (assuming you're speaking of the killings)
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  22. #197
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    44,246

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    I though it was one of those mass shooting things... dead children everywhere and a stand off with the 'authorities'. it certainly has been spoken of as such (here in the bilge)
    Then you are mistaken, a condition which could have been easily corrected in five minutes with a simple internet search. The killer was a fellow named Cedric Anderson; he murdered Karen Smith, his estranged wife, then killed himself. He also hit two students in the process, one of whom died. It doesn't appear he was trying to kill students. It is, unfortunately, a not-uncommon pattern among rejected (often abusive) men, although this was more dramatic than most..

    There is something unutterably obscene about a technical discussion of ammunition and gun terminology in a thread about a murder.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  23. #198
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Douglasville, Ga
    Posts
    3,650

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    it doesn't change it all... did you think it should?
    No, but I have no clue what your answer to his comment means.

    What does your thoughts about what the thread is and what it actually is have to do with Keith's question?
    Tom

  24. #199
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    31,377

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Sorry guys, but there is something so completely bizarre about a guy going bonkers and murdering his ex-wife and one of her students, and then you turning it into a technical discussion of ammunition?? What the hell is WRONG with you people??
    Its called avoiding the issue. That's what you do when your reality is indefensible.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  25. #200
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    No, but I have no clue what your answer to his comment means.

    What does your thoughts about what the thread is and what it actually is have to do with Keith's question?
    like any other thread drift... it's what ends up being talked about... talking ad nauseam about a murder suicide got worn out
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  26. #201
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Then you are mistaken, a condition which could have been easily corrected in five minutes with a simple internet search. The killer was a fellow named Cedric Anderson; he murdered Karen Smith, his estranged wife, then killed himself. He also hit two students in the process, one of whom died. It doesn't appear he was trying to kill students. It is, unfortunately, a not-uncommon pattern among rejected (often abusive) men, although this was more dramatic than most..

    There is something unutterably obscene about a technical discussion of ammunition and gun terminology in a thread about a murder.
    four victims=mass shooting
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  27. #202
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    31,377

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    like any other thread drift... it's what ends up being talked about... talking ad nauseam about a murder suicide got worn out
    So, you are totally disinterested by American children getting shot?

    Sad.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  28. #203
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    So, you are totally disinterested by American children getting shot?

    Sad.
    a big (and dishonest) leap...
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  29. #204
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    27,195

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Don't ask me as ER doctors and the FBI

    Cheap and easy ammo that likes to rattle around inside you like a pinball ripping arteries and organs

    In the civilian world, the lowly

    .22cal is still the top dog in
    kills of any caliber

    Oh and for the right wing nut jobs your God was shot with one.

    Reagan assassination attempt
    Weapons Röhm RG-14 .22 cal.

    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  30. #205
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    central, FL
    Posts
    11,838

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Don't ask me as ER doctors and the FBI

    Cheap and easy ammo that likes to rattle around inside you like a pinball ripping arteries and organs

    In the civilian world, the lowly

    .22cal is still the top dog in
    kills of any caliber

    Oh and for the right wing nut jobs your God was shot with one.

    Reagan assassination attempt
    Weapons Röhm RG-14 .22 cal.

    And lived.......... I 'll take a shot from a 22 over other rounds any day
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

  31. #206
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Granby, Massachusetts
    Posts
    116

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    I have always found pro/anti gun discussions/debates very interesting.

    I grew up around guns; shooting rats behind the hen house with a .22, putting a pig on the table with a .38, going out in the middle of the night to chase a bear away from the barn with a 12gauge or 30-06 in the event the bear did not want to leave the barn, dispatching the raccoon eating all the chickens... Growing up guns were tools, dangerous and deadly tools but still tools.

    I am 6th generation in a town of a few thousand people. I knew my Great Grandparents, my Grandparents and of course my parents. Same family, same small town, same school and COMPLETELY different views on firearms within the town and school from generation to generation.

    Great grandpa-

    carried a knife every day to school, brought his rifle or shotgun to school during the fall and winter to hunt on the way home, the school had a closet where the guns went during school hours. Fights were a regular occurrence and were settled with fists, if you pulled a knife of gun you would never live it down. No gun permits at all, anyone could buy one. He said gun violence was never a real concern.

    Grandpa-

    carried a knife every day to school, brought his rifle or shotgun to school but it had to stay in his car. He was a "greaser" and raced cars, would meet the neighboring town guys for a rumble on the town common... Also said no one ever pulled a gun, a knife occasionally at a rumble out of desperation but never a gun.

    Parents-

    carried a knife every day to school, guns could be in cars but not visible, also no issues with gun or knife violence and fights sounded way more common than when I was in school but not as common as my great and grand parents.

    Me-

    immediate expulsion if you brought a knife or gun onto school property. I got pulled into the office more than once simply because they knew I owned guns. Everyone was scared and paranoid, even a fist fight was grounds for expulsion. I saw very few physical altercations but the name calling and bullying was insane! The older generations said that was not their experience because name calling led to a fight and a fight was always a gamble, even if you won you were sure to take a knock or two. In my experience you could verbally harass as much as you wanted, the first to throw a punch was the one who got in trouble.


    I realize this is antidotal evidence but my point is I believe culture has changed and that is the big difference and issue. I also think that is why violence is so high in the USA, the guns are the chosen tool, but the desire to cause harm is the real issue. Our culture is violent, our media, games, our news.... It's all violent.

    There is no denying that guns are a great instrument for death, but so are a million other items and tools. Box cutters hijacked planes, vehicles have been driven into crowds, a squirt gun filled with gasoline and a road flare would be more deadly than a 6 shot .22 revolver like the picture shown above and no permit is required for the gas, flare or squirt gun.

    You can can take the preferred tools away but that won't fix the underlying issues. Common sense gun laws can help for sure but if your aim is violence reduction I think education, mental health, the wage gap and the media is where you should aim your concern.

    Just my 2 cents from a educated, liberal firearm owner.
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  32. #207
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    central cal
    Posts
    6,466

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/...145234709.html
    This is about a 15-20 minute car ride away from here.

    Happened today. It's not a school, but it's random shootings.

    I don't know.

    Peace,
    Robert

  33. #208
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    28,896

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jack grebe View Post
    And lived.......... I 'll take a shot from a 22 over other rounds any day
    don't tempt the gods, jack!
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  34. #209
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    62,608

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by sdenette View Post
    I have always found pro/anti gun discussions/debates very interesting.

    I grew up around guns; shooting rats behind the hen house with a .22, putting a pig on the table with a .38, going out in the middle of the night to chase a bear away from the barn with a 12gauge or 30-06 in the event the bear did not want to leave the barn, dispatching the raccoon eating all the chickens... Growing up guns were tools, dangerous and deadly tools but still tools.

    I am 6th generation in a town of a few thousand people. I knew my Great Grandparents, my Grandparents and of course my parents. Same family, same small town, same school and COMPLETELY different views on firearms within the town and school from generation to generation.

    Great grandpa-

    carried a knife every day to school, brought his rifle or shotgun to school during the fall and winter to hunt on the way home, the school had a closet where the guns went during school hours. Fights were a regular occurrence and were settled with fists, if you pulled a knife of gun you would never live it down. No gun permits at all, anyone could buy one. He said gun violence was never a real concern.

    Grandpa-

    carried a knife every day to school, brought his rifle or shotgun to school but it had to stay in his car. He was a "greaser" and raced cars, would meet the neighboring town guys for a rumble on the town common... Also said no one ever pulled a gun, a knife occasionally at a rumble out of desperation but never a gun.

    Parents-

    carried a knife every day to school, guns could be in cars but not visible, also no issues with gun or knife violence and fights sounded way more common than when I was in school but not as common as my great and grand parents.

    Me-

    immediate expulsion if you brought a knife or gun onto school property. I got pulled into the office more than once simply because they knew I owned guns. Everyone was scared and paranoid, even a fist fight was grounds for expulsion. I saw very few physical altercations but the name calling and bullying was insane! The older generations said that was not their experience because name calling led to a fight and a fight was always a gamble, even if you won you were sure to take a knock or two. In my experience you could verbally harass as much as you wanted, the first to throw a punch was the one who got in trouble.


    I realize this is antidotal evidence but my point is I believe culture has changed and that is the big difference and issue. I also think that is why violence is so high in the USA, the guns are the chosen tool, but the desire to cause harm is the real issue. Our culture is violent, our media, games, our news.... It's all violent.

    There is no denying that guns are a great instrument for death, but so are a million other items and tools. Box cutters hijacked planes, vehicles have been driven into crowds, a squirt gun filled with gasoline and a road flare would be more deadly than a 6 shot .22 revolver like the picture shown above and no permit is required for the gas, flare or squirt gun.

    You can can take the preferred tools away but that won't fix the underlying issues. Common sense gun laws can help for sure but if your aim is violence reduction I think education, mental health, the wage gap and the media is where you should aim your concern.

    Just my 2 cents from a educated, liberal firearm owner.
    nibble, nibble
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  35. #210
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    28,896

    Default Re: San Bernardino school shooting.

    Go on, Phillip. You know you wanna.

    Here, I'll go first. I think a whole lot of modern anti-bullying programs have had the perverse effect of preparing people for victimization who otherwise might have felt the capacity to resist a bully. I taught my kids to punch a bully in the nose hard, and make him/her get a really good look at their own blood. Knowing I'd back them up at the Principal's office may have been one reason that none of them ever had to do it.

    I carried a pocket knife to school daily, and still carry one when I haven't misplaced my most recent.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •