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Thread: Fish able Sailing boat

  1. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Portland, Oregon
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    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Ok... two points.

    First - have you ever fished out of a small boat? A higher freeboard (distance from waterline to gunwale) is often a good thing when it comes to safety for a sailboat. It can be a bit problematic for boating larger fish. Not that it can't be done... I just don't regard it as optimum.

    Second - given the discussion so far, I can speak a bit to the applicability of the GIS. My background is that I'm an approved builder for Storer, and built our first one over 10 years ago. As a family boat. Because the kids (10 & 15) wanted to learn to sail, and despite a life full of boaty activities, I had never sailed a small boat. I welcomed the opportunity. As it happened, though, we used the boat for two years, quite happily, with oars and outboard only... before we put the sailing rig on her. Fishing, boat-camping, and general messing about --

    It's a smallish boat for the duty you have in mind. If you unstep the mast, and bundle the spars/sails along one side of the boat... you could fish two, but no more for casting. Three if you troll or handline only.

    At a typical finished weight of 130 - 150#... it's a very light boat. That's both good an bad. Bad - no inertial to punch thru a headwind with chop while rowing. Not much 'carry'. Good - much easier to launch, retrieve, and jockey around the beach if you go ashore to eat lunch, explore, play, or dig a few more worms.

    Of all the boats mentioned - The Goat is the most boat for the money/time invested. By far. A great value. As a benchmark - we spent about $2,600 on ours. That includes everything except our labor. Plywood, lumber, hardware, paint, hardware, lines, sail, fenders, flares, bailer, a small used outboard, and a very used trailer. Again... of all the boats mentioned... that's about the least you'll need to spend.

    The Goat - with its dory-shaped hull IS tiddly. Not a lot of initial stability. If you are alone in the boat, and stand on the gunwale, you WILL go swimming. The flip-side is -- the more weight you add, the more she gains in stability. A second body changes the equation substantially. Same effect can be achieved when solo, by carrying a pair of tire-store traction-sand bags inboard. In order to learn to sail, I used two 70# bags as 'training wheels' - and it made all the difference.

    As a sailboat - she is great. Excellent, really. Example - our GIS matched a Core Sound 20 for speed, and was quicker around the buoys during one race. And the balanced lug rig is simple for a beginner, and easy to manage for someone with their mind on fish. My own nascent sailing skills will never outgrow her. And yet, she's perfectly capable of 'don't make me set my beer down' sailing. It's up to you.

    The bottom line is - you are attempting to find a boat that will manage two quite dissimilar duties. Because of the general capabilities, the GIS would not be a terrible choice. And... if value, relatively low cost, and light weight are priorities... it rises up toward the top of the list.

    The biggest question mark, for me, is your waters. Is she big enough to handle your home waters. Without knowing more, I can't tell. But I have (even the first summer - as a rank beginner) sailed ours in 25 mph winds and 4' waves. I've even launched her thru the surf, rowed around beyond the breakers, and come back in. That's rolling the dice, though. Broaching in the waves might net you a scattered collection of toothpicks instead of a boat.

    Hope that's helpful.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  2. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    North Shore, Massachusetts
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    5,816

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    how about a banks dory with a sail for off the wind work? or a Swampscott type sailing dory?


  3. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
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    84

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Hiya WAG-
    Here are a few suggestions for craft of similar capacity to the Ilur but simpler in construction and sail rig:
    Lilistone First Mate 15' x 5'1" plywood stitch and tape // http://baysidewoodenboats.com.au/designs/first-mate/
    Selway-Fisher Northumbrian Coble 15' stitch and tape *yawl rig // http://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm
    Oughtred Skerrieskiff 15'3" x 4'7" flat bottom two-plank double ender // http://www.oughtredboats.com
    Lilistone Phoenix III 15' x 4'6" glued clinker // http://baysidewoodenboats.com.au/designs/phoenix-iii/
    Welsford Rogue 14'7" x 4'5" glued lapstrake // http://jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/rogue/index.htm

    Here's the First Mate with a lug rig:


    And the 15' Northumbrian Coble:


    For another sail rig idea, a spritsail can be gotten out of the way quickly by brailing the sail to the mast (gathering by a looped line). Most any boat that uses a lug could have a spritsail without moving the mast partner much, and some (Phoenix III) show a sprit option on the plans.

    Cheers, happy hunting, Dan

  4. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Perth Australia
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    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Thanks again David . I have fished from a small dinghy (" Al-oi " ) 14fter . The first boat I ever took on the water . It was my fathers , I was 11 , it was1977 . Though now I fish from kayak . I am ever more enamoured with the GIS . https://youtu.be/yDkNCDCop3s . Especially this one . But I'm extremely interested in all other options with similar potential . In Perth we have the "Fremantle Doctor " . The SW wind from the Indian Ocean . Usually in mid afternoon so it's great to sail out with an easterly , fish for hours until the wind turns for a free ride home though often with a following sea .Thanks, Snaildrake .For all the links as I will now have hours of fun researching each one . So great to come home from work to find several new posts on this subject . Thank you all.

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Portland, Oregon
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    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    WAG - what I'm still not at all sure of is if the GIS is 'enough' boat for your waters. Any fotos/vids of the area?
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  6. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Cresson, Texas
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    3

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Not sure if this would be of any help to you, but I am a avid fisherman including kayaks and I am building my own highly modified experimental design for use when I don't feel like paddling all day.... I am building a enigma inspired sharpie micro cruiser design and have enlarged it to just under 14 ft with a 44in beam... converted the rear storage area into seating for trolling and making the cabin removable/storable. I sorta toungue in cheek call it my redneck river yacht.

    Its not wooden as im also trying out a mega low cost build method out of curiosity that essentially makes it disposable if I hate it but here is a thread I put up last summer when I was starting... haven't updated it since but will give you an idea of what I mean. and if successful will prolly build a permanent one in ply.

    http://www.texaskayakfisherman.com/f...?f=71&t=236909

  7. #42
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    Apr 2017
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    Perth Australia
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    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Thanks JF . Checked out your design . What is that foam material originally made for ? And did your wing sail work ? If so how fast ? Hull looks more stable than quick though!

  8. #43
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    Apr 2017
    Location
    Perth Australia
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    33

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    David . I have the same reserves . I would like to eventually attend an invitation from a friend , to fish the "Coventry reef " . 7 kilometres offshore in the Indian Ocean . He uses a Hobie Adventure island and has years of experience offshore in this craft .So a GIS should be OK with some prior trips under the belt and the right weather ! (?) maybe with some ballast as training wheels as suggested here on the forum . I have a set of PE outriggers that could be adapted or even just one side as Polynesian style .

  9. #44

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Hi WAG


    " 7 kilometres offshore in the Indian Ocean . He uses a Hobie Adventure island and has years of experience offshore in this craft .So a GIS should be OK with some prior trips under the belt and the right weather ! (?) maybe with some ballast as training wheels as suggested here on the forum . I have a set of PE outriggers"

    The thing about the GIS is its very easy to capsize (an Ilur by comparison would be hard to capsize) and once over very difficult to recover as it holds lots of free surface water. I would not like to be out there in that situation in an afternoon seabreeze.
    I have crossed to Rottnest (18km offshore) and circumnavigated the island (36km) in sea kayaks but wouldnt do it in the goat. Coburn Sound (semi protected is to me the natural habitat of the GIS (and boaters have died there too)
    The Hobie AI, (an enhanced(?) kayak) I guess would be good choice too, stable and sealed volume.
    I have no idea how a GIS would behave with outriggers, it would be a different boat, not a goat anymore.

    I love my Goat.

    Wayne

  10. #45
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    Apr 2017
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    Perth Australia
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    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Cheers Wayne , great info . 36 kms in a sea kayak (18 kms out ) is an extreme day out ! Hope you could tell your toes from the wrinkles ? I fish almost exclusively from Coburn sound most of the year . Fairly sheltered and has its share of danger also . And my closest launch from home . But I yearn to venture out gradually . Outriggers on GIS a terrible idea I agree . Just chucked it in there cause I could. But won't . I promise. What about the ballast idea ?
    Last edited by WAGrunter; 04-07-2017 at 05:25 AM.

  11. #46
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    Apr 1999
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    Hyannis, MA, USA
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    41,164

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Some boats, like a traditional peapod or a real banks dory, really need ballast. Very few recreational boats, including "yacherized" peapods and dories, really like ballast though some can carry a load quite well. Oh, and I had an incredibly narrow nordcap type expedition kayak ("Psychoyak") that was impossibly unstabile for recreational outings but I once for a week's trip loaded her with my gear and much of several other people's. Probably put in 250# in addition to my 200#. That brought her down nicely and she was then stabile. I then built racks to hold a set of weights from an abandoned home gym that was in the town dump. Perfect.

    In a little boat, inside ballast simply added might give a bit of initial stability at the expense of making things heavy and running the risk of the ballast shifting. You are far better off finding a boat you like as designed and learning quite a lot before you fancy you can improve on a good boat.

    G'luck

  12. #47
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    Apr 2017
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    Cresson, Texas
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    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Quote Originally Posted by WAGrunter View Post
    Thanks JF . Checked out your design . What is that foam material originally made for ? And did your wing sail work ? If so how fast ? Hull looks more stable than quick though!
    its XPS foam for insulating homes, in minimal testing I did it pulled pretty hard just like the RC versions, haven't gotten it out yet for full long runs cause still working on finish out, its very stable and can hold a lot of weight and still have a 6inch or less draft, should be quick its basically the hull form stretched a foot that Layden used to win his class at EC.

  13. #48

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    " What about the ballast idea ?" [/QUOTE]

    Hi WAG
    Ian makes some general points about ballast. And gives a specific and positive example in the iconic Nordkap. The question always is how does ballast effect the specific boat in question?
    The GIS is an exceptionally well designed boat.
    It is as light as it can reasonably be.
    it is as strong as it needs to be.
    It is powerfully rigged. Ten square metres on a sixty kg planing hull makes it a high performance two person dinghy.
    That is its design brief, albeit with a traditional look.
    Its design displacement is about 250kg and as the wind pipes up you need to hike out and/or reef down. If solo the GIS is soon overcanvassed in more than a breeze on a displ of say 150kg.
    It can certainly stand more displacement without becoming a slug.
    A couple of years ago we (crew of three, say 270kg, total displ 350ish) raced the Goat in an Old Gaffers regatta and came third in a mixed fleet including the aforementioned Welsfords, Oughtreds et al.
    The GIS so treated IS a different boat...and still a good one.
    As a different example a Laser loaded down like that would probably be a dog...different boat...not a good one?
    I have not sailed with more than that 350kg displ but can vouch that it goes well up to there.
    You could match that with a combination of crew/stores/ballast .
    Back to Ians Nordkap. Solo with no expedition stores/ballast it is a low volume/lively/ hi performance sea boat for light and/or skilled paddlers. With a 500lb displacement it IS a different boat. Solid as a rock, a "half tide rock", with say 70% of its hull volume below the waterline. A wet boat with less wind resistance and so on. Still a good boat for Ian. I like a "corkier" kayak myself with more wriggle room.

    I love my GIS

    Wayne

    I would also box in the centre thwart to increase flotation and reduce volume of water taken aboard in capsize.
    Two or three deep reefs essential. Hollow mast very desirable.

  14. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Santa Fe NM
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    115

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    http://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm



    Paul Fisher has a number of good options in his Other Dayboats section. If you haven't looked through there check it out. His modified Swampscott is a relatively easy build, with a nice hull shape. Kane and Able also.
    Last edited by Matt young; 04-08-2017 at 09:13 PM.

  15. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Providence, RI USA
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    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    There is a video somewhere of someone fishing from a Welsford Navigator with a somewhat stripped-down interior layout. A boat worth a look at anyway.
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat


  17. #52
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    Sep 2015
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    Whangarei New Zealand
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    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Hi WAG, your plans to fish and sail off the Indian Ocean coast might call for some lateral thinking in terms of wooden boats.
    The only traditional beach launched sailing/fishing craft of this Ocean are those of Oceanic origin or else Sri Lanka and Indian craft. These are either outrigger stabilized dugouts or log float rafts like the Indian katumaram.
    Over in the south Atlantic, Brazilian fishermen have used and still, use the jangada, which in a modern form are not much different to a plywood ski that was first used off South Australian beaches.
    This first ski type craft was copied and produced on the African side of the Ocean as the ‘Crocker ski’ and a google search will show how to build one of these.
    Putting a jangada type sail rig or maybe a sailboard rig on one of these ski’s (preferably enlarged) might be a good start…….. if you really want to use a wooden craft rather than one of those plastic contraptions you now have.

  18. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    425

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Take a look at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/ His book has plans and more info.

  19. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Perth Australia
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    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    To member Adrian Valley . Sorry mate but tried to reply to PM but your message is in my reply box . I tried to start new PM and wrote to you twice but doesn't go through .? Can you PM your price too me please ? Thank you

  20. #55

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Hi WAG

    Here is a 23yo Plywood Drascombe Lugger for $5000 or less with outboard and trailer.
    Just up the road, a very rare offering.
    This is where you decide what you want to do more.
    Sail or Build??
    I doubt you could buy the materials for a Goat for that money (using free labour).
    The DL is much more boat and well proven. A different boat and a good one.

    https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/hill...gn=MF-sailboat

    Wayne

  21. #56
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
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    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    I saw this one the other day in St Augustine. Some flaking paint inside but glass and wood is rock solid. Ad says no sail but there's one sitting on the boat, so maybe he'd let it go. Also has a mast, not sure if that's included. Looks better in person. Photos are not flattering. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Made-...item4b156360a4
    Last edited by Mark O.; 04-13-2017 at 06:01 PM.

  22. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Valnesfjord, Norway
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    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    I am building Argie 15, and intend to use a Lug rig. I expect it to be ok for fishing too. The mast is forward in the boat, and the rig will be easy to put down when rowing or motoring. Easy to build, and also easy to clean inside, with the S&g construction.

    Two builders here have completed (almost) Argie 15 with two different lug-rigs:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ighlight=argie

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...77#post5213277

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