Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 57

Thread: Fish able Sailing boat

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    33

    Default Fish able Sailing boat

    Hi guys n gals , brand newbie here so go easy on me ! Found this forum looking for ideas for my next adventure. Just adore the photos of the amazing craft that you people post . I am a mad-keen kayak fisherman that recently started sailing and now Needs to build a sweet little sailing boat that can either stow or furl the sail quickly to allow room to fish . Can I please be advised on your suggestions with as many photos as possible ? My interest in building and sailing is gathering momentum. Just so many ways to achieve nirvana!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    41,009

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Almost any light open boat that's good to row and sail will work.

    First, you want a one sail rig of greatest simplicity and stowability. Probably a balanced lug would work best. Free standing mast a big plus.

    Secondly, you want two sets of oars. One with open top oarlocks for any real rowing. And one with pin oarlocks so you can fish from the rowing seat and let go of the oars when you need both hands on the rod.

    From there, it's just practice.

    G'luck

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,607

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    I agree with Ian in most part, but a strong disagree on the pinned-oars. Proper oar leathers with buttons will allow you to let go the oars when necessary without forcing you to the crudities of stroke with an oar that can't be feathered or slid inboard and outboard as necessary. You most definitely don't need a second set of crappy oars and oarlocks. Nothing takes the joy out of rowing like pinned oarlocks. Horrible!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Thanks so far . I've been looking at Goat Island Skiff and Viviers "Illur " as a reference to size and complexity. Lug rig looks great but is it possible to have a furling mast ie: Hobie Adventure Island , where sail is wrapped around mast by turning it ? Also easier to tune sail to conditions. I live in Perth Western Australia where conditions change quickly .

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,607

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Goat Island Skiff is a lightweight and flighty dinghy compared to the stolid and no-nonsense Ilur. A GIS would be fun for bashing around the harbor for an afternoon, but the round-bilged Ilur would be far more comfortable to sit in and fish from, especially out in swells. It'll also row better than a GIS, again, especially in swells. If you plan to get out of the protected harbor, I'd say the Ilur wins it hands-down. The GIS is a much simpler and quicker build, though, if your woodworking skills need some tuning up.

    Reefing the lug is quite easy, and striking the whole rig to row is definitely easier than any sail that stays on the mast like a roller-furling style. You'll also get a shorter mast and a lower center of effort for the same sail area. The Hobie rig is sub-optimal for a sail and oar boat, in my opinion. Both the GIS and the Ilur already have lug rig options, if I'm not mistaken.

    Hey, I quite enjoyed Perth and especially Freemantle when I visited this October. Great Maritime Museum!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    41,009

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Regarding James' post #3.

    Come to think of it, the only reason I mentioned the pinned oars, besides homage to Adirondack Guide Boats, was that I don't put buttons (those rings at the top of the leathers) on my oars and I use oarlocks large enough that a button big enough to keep the oar aboard would be seriously clunky. Also, if you make the classic Pete Culler pattern oar, the stretch between oar lock and handle is very thick.

    So I happily stand corrected.

    The point James, myself, and every open water rower will agree on is that your rowing oars should work freely in open top locks or if you're really cool on a thole pin. Nothing that's hard to get back in place after it pops out catching a crab on a wave.

    G'luck

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    31,065

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    A yawl rig pushes the masts out to the ends, leaving more middle to devote to fishing. The mizzen will also keep her head to wind when drifting.
    If you are fishing at sea, feathering is not an issue, Shetland thole pins and grommets allow the oars to be left hanging overboard, or stowed inboard with ease.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    38,246

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    As always... the more info you can provide, the more accurate our answers can be. So tell us everything...

    Some immediate examples -- What sort/size of fish on what sort of rig? Always solo, or some with a partner or two? What proportion? What do you weigh? What sort of waters? Rowing how far? Sailing to the fishing grounds, than rowing around a bit? Rowing to troll? Will you trailer the boat, cartop it, or throw it on your back and carry it to the beach? Where/how will you launch/retrieve? Etc. Etc.
    Last edited by David G; 04-02-2017 at 07:53 PM.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,261

    Default

    James' assessment of the two boats in post #5 is spot on. The Ilur is a beamy, stable, high volume hull compared to the GIS.....it is a boat you can walk around in, or stand/sit on the gunwale without upsetting the boat, and will be more comfortable and drier than a goat when conditions get boisterous. Heavier to tow, and a more complex build, though.





    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by John hartmann; 04-02-2017 at 09:28 PM. Reason: Spelling/punctuation

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    41,009

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Besides the waters, much depends upon the gear. My only small boat fishing was hand long lining off the norther Oregon beach. So the basic boat requirements were surf worthy, load carrying, and ability to handle the gear.

    For my needs I found the Chamberlain Gunning dory perfect. She was a brilliant surf boat. She rowed well enough with a half ton of fish. And the hull was perfect for hand long lining. I'd pull in on one side putting back in the water on the other over the center oar locks. I could ease the work by leaning toward the string, rolling that gunnel down, and then as I hauled also shifting my weight to the other side so the boat's buoyancy could help in the lift. If taking up the string the motion was the same and there was room to lay the line in boxes.

    If you're fishing for pleasure and for dinner the loads are much less and you're likely to be in calmer water. A finer boat is in order. You might stand, especially if you fly fish, or do it all sitting but either way you'll want something with nothing sticking up over the gunnel that could snag the fishing line. You might want a rig that stows low and easily and have a revolving center seat so you can follow the fish any direction without having to move the boat.

    No one boat can do it for open water and sheltered and swift water. No one boat would be right for hauling a long line or pulling pots, and pulling a clam dredge or tonging from, and serving for light rod and reel. We can't really suggest an actual boat because you've not told us your actual wants.

    G'luck

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    198

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    With Kayak fishing, your typically flicking lures around and not bottom bashing looking for fish. If this is your style of fishing, then a small yacht is a waste of time as EVERYTHING gets in the way, as you can't really work the banks and structure when fishing as you do when Kayak or power boat fishing. Also, as a kayaker, or fisherman, you would probably have 2 -3 rods/ tackle box / small ice box/ maybe a small live bait well with an aerators of sorts, and more... and here there's no real place to store it all as everything pertaining to sailing the boat gets in the way. (Been there, done that, got the "T"-shirt - waste of time and very frustrating, especially with rods and lure fishing.)

    Small sailors work good for bottom bashing or trolling (works great for "silent trolling) and being away from shore and using hand lines or similiar, but you need to be very careful with your choice of boat, keeping all the above in mind. Personally and being an avid lure and trolling fisherman (Power and Kayak), I don't recommend a sailor if you like flicking lures around or even carrying fishing rods, as you do with Kayaks or power boats. It all just gets in the way
    Just a suggestion
    Last edited by Mark Bowdidge; 04-03-2017 at 01:11 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    UK. Cornwall, Somerset, Ipswich.
    Posts
    2,791

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Ive always bolted a multiplier reel onto my transom so no rod needed. They can be a handful on a small sailing boat, but not impossible. My reels are on a pivot so they don't side load when I've just tacked. Not the most technical fishing, but amazing what you'll catch with spinner hooks. For flat fish, add weights or slow down to sink the lure to the bottom.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    198

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Here's a great video channel of a young local who decided to make his own fishing boat and go fishin' He's actually a bit of an icon around here (everybody knows him LOL) at the Gold Coast here in Oz.
    Here's his boat LOL
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_W8tbJqIX8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_efemtBAiY

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCee...orYs5vjgwcHCLg

  14. #14

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    A bit outside the box but a proven fish catching machine! Tamanu by Gary Dierking.

    http://outriggersailingcanoes.blogsp...m-reality.html


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Ok so this is my first kayak


    Sort of a povvo adventure island without the pedigree or folding Ama's
    Sorry about the "poly un-ethical-ene" photo ... Planning on sporting a woody soon



    photo uploading websites
    Last edited by WAGrunter; 04-03-2017 at 07:11 AM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Thank you John for this image of "Ilur" it's so gorgeous I want to hang on the wall , framed. ..Q ;is the tapatalk photo upload free? And how do I post large images like yourself?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,261

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Glad you like the image, WAGrunter. Tapatalk was free, and I am just getting familiar with it after giving up on another image hosting app that was becoming severely clunky.... Tapatalk seems easy to use and gives you the choice of image size to upload.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Hi WAGrunter
    I have a GIS here in Perth. Love it.
    I dont use it to fish, and would only if I left the mast/sail on the beach. Or possibly with say 60kg ballast.
    Far too flighty, narrow waterline, light, big rig. Also rows ok but not a rowboat.
    The Ilur is more like what I would want for the sailing/fishing mix.
    Want to take others with you? Ilur is a much bigger boat. I would love an Ilur too.
    Boatbuilder Tony OConnor in Rockingham can supply a kit for the Ilur and i think he may currently be building a GIS. He can also do kits for other Vivier boats.
    You might like to get in touch with the Old Gaffers Association here. We also have Welsford and Oughtred designs in the fleet.
    Good luck
    Wayne Poulsen
    Fremantle

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,261

    Default

    Here is a pic of Waxwing holding 4 adults very comfortably, with room left over for a picnic hamper. I suspect a GIS would be crowded with that load.



    Wayne, how much reserve stability does a Goat have if you are scrambling in over the rail after a swim? I weigh about twelve stone/78kg, and sitting on the rail, the Ilur still has three strakes above the water.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    31,065

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    West Cork, Ireland
    Posts
    59

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    I fish out of my Ilur. I have the misanier standing lug rig and brail the sail like below. An oar in the sculling notch gives an extra bit of manoeuvrability. It is not without it's challenges though, especially in stronger wind.



    I use a short 7 foot long spinning rod. It is not so good at casting but is easier to use onboard than something longer. The brailed sail is good for slowing down the boat for trolling too. Drifting with it causes a fair bit of windage but the ilur is more than stable enough to stand up to it. Alternately you can just let the sail out and lash the tiller down for side on drift where you edge forward slightly. You can set the sail so it draws a tiny bit and doesn't flog. I never drop the sail completely as I fish close to the rocky shore and keep the sail ready to go to get me out of trouble.

    When I need to start sailing again after a drift I put the rod in my thole pins like below. It keeps the fully extended rod out of the way of the rig and outside the boat. I lost a rod over the side doing this though so I now have it clipped to a lanyard(pictured).



    Below is a funky pink handline I made for mackerel fishing where using a rod is over kill.


    The main problem I find with sail fishing is that you need the wind to get you to the fishing spot. It is then too windy to row! If you wait for the wind to die down then you will be rowing home as well! The sailing fishermen of old got around this by staying out all night and sailing in the next morning with the sea breeze!

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Thank you Wayne . Yes to the love Ilur also . I have spoken several times via e mail to Tony OConnor regarding the costs and build process of Ilur . His workshop is but 20 minutes from my home . I've probably spent many hours watching the OGA videos on the YouTube so may have seen your GIS here . I am a tradesman Boilermaker with four children , so time and money are paramount . The reason for considering the Goat . Plus, I've not ever built a boat before . As Tony explained, the Ilur kit would take around a year of weekend work whereas the Goat may only take a few months maximum.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    38,246

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    There's truth in what almost everyone here has said. The issue is - how much weight to give to the various factors. That's why I asked for more info on the details of your situation/intentions. Without more... it's a bit of a stab in the dark.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    240

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    I agree that the type of fishing is really going to determine the best boat. Inshore and surf fishing are about as different as two things can be! I am looking for a sailboat to replace the 215 hp SeaDoo (forgive me) I used at our local jetties. Spanish macs feed on glass minnows, at the mouth of the jetties, about one and a half miles from the beach. A good speed to troll size 0 or 00 Clark spoons is about 4 knots, so I should be able to pull lures with oars or sail, I hope. I'm looking at Ross' First Mate. Oars at the ready would be essential around the jetty rocks, as stationary bottom fishing is also good but requires fishing close to the rocks for sheephead.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Sorry I took so long David . So to answer your question and fill in the blanks : Here in Perth we have a nice little (?) recreational fishery and it goes a bit like this . Early summer we Have Giant Herring ( Ladyfish ) in our Swan river for world class sport fishing with lures . Then as the water warms , the Spanish Mackeral show up in our Cockburn Sound (pronounced Coburn) within 5 km from shore and sometimes just 200 meters offshore so trolling bait is the go . Autumn through to and during winter are best for Snapper only 1-2kms offshore and we look for large schools with side view fish finders and bottom -bounce soft plastics or bait . Also in this region we have the Westralian Dhufish . One of the best table fish on the planet . Another is the King George Whiting . All fished similarly to Snapper . All year round we have wonderful Squid grounds all along the coast so just to find patches of ribbon weed and anchor up is the go . We are blessed to have such choice . [img]




    This is my current fishing and sailing kayak : Hobie Outback
    forum image hosting[/img]
    Last edited by WAGrunter; 04-04-2017 at 06:13 AM.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    198

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Nice dhuy !!!
    Got a number of our builders (power, not sail) in WA who regularly head offshore (up to 50km) chasing all these fish. Top one !!

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lexington, MA
    Posts
    733

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    I think that you will catch the most fish by trolling, and that can happen in any sailboat.
    Silver lures are fine in deep water (for mackerel), but they sink and can snag in shallower water.
    The most useful all-around lure for frequent trolling is a small (3 inch) plastic lure, often called a squid.
    A handline of nylon cord is fine, attached to a good swivel, several meters of clear leader, and a modest (2 cm) hook.
    Bury the hook in the squid to limit catching weeds!
    Take along a small gaff, in case you catch something large.
    Last edited by spirit; 04-06-2017 at 10:01 AM.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fort Collins, Co
    Posts
    7,064

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    The first boat I ever bought was a snark, which I used for fishing because it was the only way to get out in the water. Having done that I understand the allure of small sail boat trolling. Most of mine was done in high mountain lakes around the Durango area. It adds a level of complication for fishing, but that same challenge can be part of the fun for some people.

    Lessons learned. As stated earlier you want a simple rig that will head up easily.

    Rods off the back or even with the centerboard/ dagger. You can have one hand on the tiller to head up, release the sail and grab the rod.

    I fished a lot of small lakes, so I always had a plan on what direction to go if I get a strike, or if the plan was bad then the fish stayed on while I ignored the rod. Having said that the the target fish was trout and usually pretty small by ocean fishing standards, no long fights.

    Have fun. People think I'm crazy for fishing a hand line off of a paddle board for small mouth but I have a great time doing it.
    Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business.
    TOM ROBBINS, Even Cowgirls Get the Blues



  29. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dorset, UK
    Posts
    449

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Quote Originally Posted by WAGrunter View Post
    Thank you Wayne . Yes to the love Ilur also . I have spoken several times via e mail to Tony OConnor regarding the costs and build process of Ilur . His workshop is but 20 minutes from my home . I've probably spent many hours watching the OGA videos on the YouTube so may have seen your GIS here . I am a tradesman Boilermaker with four children , so time and money are paramount . The reason for considering the Goat . Plus, I've not ever built a boat before . As Tony explained, the Ilur kit would take around a year of weekend work whereas the Goat may only take a few months maximum.
    There's a boat similar to Ilur, called a Salmo 15-S which would be a slightly quicker build, although a kit Ilur is a relatively quick assembly.

    It's all plywood and kitable. It doesn't have all Ilur's features (sub floor storage etc) in some ways it's more crude, but in broad terms it's similar enough. The finished boats are proven capable and able. Stitch and fillet/tape etc.







    http://www.salmoboats.com/projekty-l...achtow/jacht1/
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 04-04-2017 at 10:34 AM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    [QUOTE=John hartmann;5201485]Here is a pic of Waxwing holding 4 adults very comfortably, with room left over for a picnic hamper. I suspect a GIS would be crowded with that load.



    Wayne, how much reserve stability does a Goat have if you are scrambling in over the rail after a swim? I weigh about twelve stone/78kg, and sitting on the rail, the Ilur still has three strakes above the water.


    Hi John, that is never going to happen. Definitely no sittin on the gunnel. Maybe without the rig but I havent tried. Once you heel a bit the weight of the mast will do the rest. Ballast would change this , A guess 100kg might(?) let you sit in the rail. GIS actually has generous freeboard and would stand the imersion, it certainly stiffens up with ballast and starts out nearly 200kg lighter than Ilur.

    WAGrunter, I didnt build my GIS but Tony is right it is a very simple build.
    If it were blown up 110% it would be 50% more stable and still simple to build?
    Thought about a Phoenix3?
    But anyway I wouldnt sail the GIS with 4 kids, sounds to me like you need the bigger Ilur type boat.
    Wayne
    Last edited by Wayne Poulsen; 04-04-2017 at 10:02 AM.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Quote Originally Posted by timcooke View Post
    I fish out of my Ilur. I have the misanier standing lug rig and brail the sail like below. An oar in the sculling notch gives an extra bit of manoeuvrability. It is not without it's challenges though, especially in stronger wind.



    I use a short 7 foot long spinning rod. It is not so good at casting but is easier to use onboard than something longer. The brailed sail is good for slowing down the boat for trolling too. Drifting with it causes a fair bit of windage but the ilur is more than stable enough to stand up to it. Alternately you can just let the sail out and lash the tiller down for side on drift where you edge forward slightly. You can set the sail so it draws a tiny bit and doesn't flog. I never drop the sail completely as I fish close to the rocky shore and keep the sail ready to go to get me out of trouble.

    When I need to start sailing again after a drift I put the rod in my thole pins like below. It keeps the fully extended rod out of the way of the rig and outside the boat. I lost a rod over the side doing this though so I now have it clipped to a lanyard(pictured).



    Below is a funky pink handline I made for mackerel fishing where using a rod is over kill.


    The main problem I find with sail fishing is that you need the wind to get you to the fishing spot. It is then too windy to row! If you wait for the wind to die down then you will be rowing home as well! The sailing fishermen of old got around this by staying out all night and sailing in the next morning with the sea breeze!
    thanks for your input Tim . Just love your colourful Ilur. Can you tell me how long she took to complete ? Supposing you built yourself .

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Can anybody comment on the Moyne 12 sailing dinghy kit ? I read an article in our "Australasian Amateur Boatbuilder & Kitboat " magazine today and it looks to be impressive . Should I add this design to my considerations ?

  33. #33
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    West Cork, Ireland
    Posts
    59

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Quote Originally Posted by WAGrunter View Post
    thanks for your input Tim . Just love your colourful Ilur. Can you tell me how long she took to complete ? Supposing you built yourself .
    About 15 months overall with a stop of about 3 months. So 12 months build time. If I was to build again I would go the kit route and save time on the tedious bits like cutting out planks. The kit would give you a superior hull over the classic Ilur.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,261

    Default

    Tim, that was an impressively speedy build, given the extra time needed to cut out all the planking! WAGrunter, I think you should buy one from a kit, get the kids involved in the build, and then get out there and start having adventures with them!






    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Fish able Sailing boat

    Thanks John . I know I must act soon but I hoped to receive more ideas as I'm sure there are many designs that I am not yet aware of . Any more suggestions ? The Salmo 15 s put forth by Edward looks very nice and not extremely complex .
    Last edited by WAGrunter; 04-05-2017 at 05:34 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •