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Thread: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

  1. #1
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    Default Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    As if I didn't have enough to do on Petrel, it's time to get the Whitehall ready to re-launch:



    I keep her in the water (fresh water) when in use but I've never used antifouling paint so she gets pretty slimy. This year I want to paint the bottom to stop the slime but I'm not sure what to use and several searches haven't turned up much information.

    I'm leaning towards an ablative paint, something like Pettit Ultima SSA perhaps (http://www.pettitpaint.com/product.asp?id=13) to avoid buildup but my experience with the ablative paint on Petrel is that it fades very quickly. The red paint I used on Petrel (Interlux Bottomkote Pro, which is no longer available but which appears similar to the Pettit Ultima) went from deep red to a light brick red, almost pink, in a matter of weeks. I've looked at the Pettit Vivid paints, but I think the red is too bright and I'd need to buy at least two quarts to mix in another color to darken it, and that's far more than I need for this little boat.

    So, I'm looking for an ablative paint, in a deep red that won't fade and that is available in quarts. Possible? Suggestions?

    Thanks,
    - Chris

    https://fvpetrel.wordpress.com

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    Pettit 1957
    Unless you are just aching to spend more money.
    Sort of a copper bronze color.

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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    Thanks Eric. Saving money is always nice but I associate copper bronze colored bottom paint with runabouts. On which I think it's completely appropriate but it would bother me on a traditional pulling boat. I'd like to get red if possible, or dark green. Do you know what the CWB uses on the livery boats? Or do they just scrub the bottoms regularly?
    - Chris

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    Life is short. Go boating now!

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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    I used an ablative bottom paint on my Pete Culler Daysailer, and I have regretted it. Looking for an alternative.
    Its hard to apply, messy in use and every time the boat goes on or off the trailer, I have it on my hands or clothes. It fades quickly.
    Sure, it works, but there has to be a better option.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    Sharpie21 is at least partly right about ablative paint. I find it easy to apply and maintain but anyone who uses it on a trailer boat is nuts. Not only is it messy, but if dried out it loses potency.

    Any salt water paint will work but there are fresh water paints that are of lower toxicity and should be cheaper. A hard paint is more likely to retain the color than an ablative. Outfits like E-Paint are a wonderful alternative to heavy metal poisoning.

    G'luck

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Thanks Eric. Saving money is always nice but I associate copper bronze colored bottom paint with runabouts. On which I think it's completely appropriate but it would bother me on a traditional pulling boat. I'd like to get red if possible, or dark green. Do you know what the CWB uses on the livery boats? Or do they just scrub the bottoms regularly?
    They use 1957. Began converting the fleet several years ago. It addresses exactly some of the points Ian makes. R boat sloop Pirate uses it. There used to be essentially the same product from Woolsey. My friend with a 40 foot converted workboat and three cylinder atlas uses it. And it's true, sometimes woody runabouts use it because they are typically fresh water boats.

    I maintain a 23 foot Kutter sloop with it. Truth be told it can hold up fine for more than one season but the owner likes to recoat annually. It is a hard polishing bottom paint. Cure time is longer than many antifoulings.
    Last edited by Eric Hvalsoe; 04-02-2017 at 10:21 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    but if dried out it loses potency.
    This is not true. One of the advantages of ablative paints is the ability to lay on mutiple coats and achieve multi-season protection. Set up and paint four coats this year, for example, then there is no need to paint for three years. A quick scrub of the bottom with a boat brush on a handle and your ready for the next season.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    NON-ABLATIVE. It comes off on everything from trailer bunks to beach sand to hands. Ablative bottom paint is for big boats that only float around, not for boats that are trailered, beached for lunch, or lifted / carried by hand for cleaning or repair.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    If you're set on having some color choices... you might also look at their 'Vivid' line. But... as always... I'd first ask around the waters where she'll live and see what works for others.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    Vivid prevents barnacles and other heavy growth in salt water, but not slime. Why would it (or other similar paints) work in fresh water?

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Hvalsoe View Post
    Pettit 1957
    Unless you are just aching to spend more money.
    Sort of a copper bronze color.
    I can't find a Petit 1957 on their product list. Is there another name?

    Jeff

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    Thanks everyone. A few comments.

    Regarding the ablative/non-ablative question: The boat lives in the water most of the time so I wasn't thinking that the messy aspects of ablative would be an issue. But I do want to trailer it on occasion to do more open-water rowing, and beach launching is a possibility as well so a hard paint might be a better option.

    Ian, I do like the idea of using an eco paint. I don't have any experience with them but after doing some reading I note that econea, the main antifouling ingredient, is effective against hard growth (barnacles) but not slime. And where I am keeping the boat now slime is the main issue. Plus all the eco paints seem to be ablative. I can't find a hard paint option using econea. However I am now planning to use something like Pettit Ultima Eco on Petrel. It appears to do well in Puget Sound.

    David G - good point about asking around the waters she will live in. That was my goal with the question for Eric about what the CWB uses on the livery boats since my boat is moored in the same area and under the same conditions as theirs.

    Eric, I think I'm sold on the Pettit copper bronze paint - thanks! If it's working for the CWB then it's probably the right option for me as well. I'll just have to get over my aesthetic objections. A red boot stripe will help there I suppose. I assume this is what you are referring to? https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...t.do?pid=12111
    - Chris

    https://fvpetrel.wordpress.com

    Life is short. Go boating now!

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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    The only bottom paint I will use these days is Hydrocoat. It's water-based and rolls or brushes on much like latex on a wall in your house would. It DOES NOT fade quickly or lose potency when the boat is sitting on the trailer for extended periods in the off season (or come off on anything). At the beginning of the season I would simply look it over and touch up any thin spots for a year or two and then add a fresh coat when needed. Good copper content and slime prevention in situations where we were getting slimed badly with epoxy-based antifouling (a real bitch to remove when dead) or VC-17 (very slick, but so low in copper that it did virtually nothing). If you want to be a hot-shot, you can even apply Hydrocoat and then burnish it for a smoother finish. We had it on our trimaran (black) and our Nordica (red) and never noticed any off-season fading on either one.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    Of course as soon as I think I've made up my mind someone comes along and gives me something else to think about. Todd, that boat looks great. Exactly what I was hoping for on mine. What is your experience with it rubbing off on the trailer? And I have to ask, what color do you have on the topsides? I've been thinking about going with a darker green on Petrel and I like what you have there a lot.
    - Chris

    https://fvpetrel.wordpress.com

    Life is short. Go boating now!

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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    I can't find a Petit 1957 on their product list. Is there another name?

    Jeff
    OOOPS!
    Petit Old Salem
    1959
    Hard Racing Copper Bronze

    It is suited to extensive fresh water immersion or intermitant salt water, and of course dry storage. It is not classified as antifoulung because I don't believe it is engineered to poisen salt water organisms. On the other hand I don't think it is an easy surface for those organisms to get a hold of.

    One of these days I'll have to find a reason to try Hydrocoat.
    Last edited by Eric Hvalsoe; 04-02-2017 at 02:48 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    Kevin, thanks for the info that at least some ablatives can take a season's dry out and still work fine. I'd not known that. But then, I never put on four coats.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    Not all ablatives are soft, like that nasty ole red soft sluffing stuff. Maybe none of the modern ablatives are like that. "Ablative" describes a kind of time release chemical process. Multi season bottom paints tend to be pretty hard and will likely leave little or no paint on the bunks. Some are ablative and some are not.
    Last edited by Eric Hvalsoe; 04-02-2017 at 03:43 PM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    The green on the Nordica is Brightside and a mixture I made of their stock dark green (which I didn't think was dark enough) and black. I learned my lesson on antifouling when we got our trimaran. When there are three hulls involved, suddenly it gets serious . When we first moved here there was this curious little extra mooring field at one end of campus. Due to some old agreement, it was available for free for a limited number of boats - but it was only about three feet deep. We had the tri moored there and in mid summer the water warmed up in the shallows and the growth of boat bottom yuck in that area was really bad.

    The tri came to us with Unepoxy Plus bottom paint on it. It worked OK, but after about three seasons of touch-ups or re-coatings it was getting really lumpy. I finally refused to add any more on top of all that dead epoxy bottom paint and I ended up grinding it all off. Probably the worst boat building job I have ever done, and I think I can still taste that crap. Never again. So, I switch to VC-17. It is somewhat stinky, but dries so fast that it doesn't matter much, and it's really slick for fast boats. You can also build up year after year of it without problems because it is extremely thin. Unfortunately, it wasn't up to the slime and growth protection we needed - not even close. Also unfortunately, it's vinyl, and you can't paint most other types of bottom paint over vinyl antifouling paint. Once again, I got the pleasure of sanding three bottoms clean while lying on my back in the driveway on a foam pad holding up a disk sander.

    A decree was made that I would never again use any bottom paint which did not remove itself, and a search began for one that had a good amount of copper, one that could survive off-seasons on the trailer and one that was not going to chalk off on everything near it. In fact, ideally, it could also withstand a bit of mid-season scrubbing with the boat pulled up in the shallows if needed, and something easy to apply would be a nice plus. Hydrocoat had just come on the market, seemed to meet those criteria and I decided to try it. No nasty solvents or horrible fumes, easy cleanup, a decently smooth surface and pretty decent fouling protection in the conditions we get around here. I have no complaints.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    At the risk of initiating some thread drift, just what is the best technique for removing an ablative bottom paint?

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    To avoid dust, I start with a nice well sharpened scraper drawn lightly. Once upon a time I'd put on stripper first but ablative comes off easily dry.

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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    Vivid prevents barnacles and other heavy growth in salt water, but not slime. Why would it (or other similar paints) work in fresh water?

    Jeff
    Maybe on your side of the island, remember all the barnacles and mussels on Marianita when we pulled her? I think that 24 hour a day current blasting past your mooring means you are constantly ablating.
    Steve

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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Bottom paint recommendation needed for a Whitehall kept in the water

    To avoid dust, I start with a nice well sharpened scraper drawn lightly. Once upon a time I'd put on stripper first but ablative comes off easily dry.
    I'd agree with Ian's advice here except to say that if you are stripping a boat in a yard you will probably have yard regulations to follow that may require dust collection (generally meaning sander and vacuum with a bag and HEPA filter), tenting, or both - or that may prevent DIY bottom paint work entirely. And, of course, even when using a scraper a particulate mask is essential!
    - Chris

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    Life is short. Go boating now!

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