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Thread: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

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    Default St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    I heard a story on the radio about this a few days ago and yes, it's true: The corned beef in your typical St. Patrick's Day feast is not Irish. It's actually Jewish.

    As Wikipedia says:

    Corned beef is not considered an Irish national dish, and the connection with Saint Patrick's Day specifically originates as part of Irish-American culture, and is often part of their celebrations in North America. ... Corned beef and cabbage is the Irish-American variant of the Irish dish of bacon and cabbage.
    and:

    The Irish immigrants almost solely bought their meat from kosher butchers. And what we think of today as Irish corned beef is actually Jewish corned beef thrown into a pot with cabbage and potatoes. The Jewish population in New York City at the time were relatively new immigrants from Eastern and Central Europe. The corned beef they made was from brisket, a kosher cut of meat from the front of the cow. Since brisket is a tougher cut, the salting and cooking processes transformed the meat into the extremely tender, flavorful corned beef we know of today.
    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-c...irish-2839144/

    so for all of you looking forward to an "authentic" Irish meal of corned beef and cabbage in celebration of the day, be aware that you've been misled.

    On the other hand, Guinness Draught Stout is authentically Irish, so feel free to consume as much of that as you want. Just don't try to dye it green.

    What's so funny about peace love & understanding?

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Not Irish .... but very much Irish-American.

    There are more people of Irish ancestry living in The USA than live in Ireland.

    Plus it tastes great!

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    So what's the problem? Most everything comes from somewhere else. Even potatoes originally came from Peru and Chile, and were completely unknown in Europe until after the Spanish conquest of the Inca Empire. They were first introduced to Ireland in 1589. It's just as tasty either way.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Surely there are some Irish Jews...
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Surely there are some Irish Jews...
    I'm sure there are, but I don't know any. I do remember Juan Epstein the world's first Puerto Rican Jew.


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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Spaghetti is not Italian, but it is Italian American.

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Spaghetti is not Italian, but it is Italian American.
    Dude, why you do insist on talking bollocks a lot of the time..

    The first written record of pasta comes from the Talmud in the 5th century AD and refers to dried pasta that could be cooked through boiling, which was conveniently portable. Some historians think that Arabs introduced pasta to Europe during a conquest of Sicily. In the West, it may have first been worked into long, thin forms in Sicily around the 12th century, as the Tabula Rogeriana of Muhammad al-Idrisi attested, reporting some traditions about the Sicilian kingdom.

    The popularity of spaghetti spread throughout Italy after the establishment of spaghetti factories in the 19th century, enabling the mass production of spaghetti for the Italian market
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by isla View Post
    Dude, why you do insist on talking bollocks a lot of the time.
    If talking bollocks was a crime, Jasus, wouldn't they be after hanging thousands?

    I'm going to make our colcannon not just with bacon, but with our own home-cured and smoked bacon. Along with potatoes grown in our very own soil.



    We bought a whiskey that's new to us:



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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    For the record Chip, I hate you.

    I mean that in the very nicest way, fully aware that it's dangerous to say such things to wolves.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post


    We bought a whiskey that's new to us:



    And four sorts of the Product:

    I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the Jameson. Just to be perverse, although I'm half Irish, I will be having fish and chips tonight as I do every Friday, and tonight's tipple is Newcastle Brown Ale. Mind you, I might say 'begorrah' once or twice and 'ah it's yerself' when my wife walks in.
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by isla View Post
    I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the Jameson. Just to be perverse, although I'm half Irish, I will be having fish and chips tonight as I do every Friday, and tonight's tipple is Newcastle Brown Ale. Mind you, I might say 'begorrah' once or twice and 'ah it's yerself' when my wife walks in.
    I'm about half-Irish myself (which I guess means that TomF only half-hates me). Herself is 3/4 Irish (with a Danish granddad who was a Cadillac dealer) and she went to Catholic school. So in honour of her heritage, we usually eat some class of fish on Fridays.

    Don't think I've ever said "begorrah," nor have I heard anyone in Ireland actually say it— might be archaic, I reckon. I did hear Bejasus and Jasus pretty often. When there was a misunderstanding over our booking in Galway City, the landlady called the tourist bureau and listened, in exasperation, until she blurted out: "Enough of yer technicalities— we're old people, bejasus!"

    In any event, here's a favourite snap of a great Irish writer, Breandán Ó Beacháin, in Connemara, leading a wee ass with a load of turf—


    Which is a bit of a joke (note his expression) as Behan was born and reared in the north slums of Dublin, a city man through and through, who regarded those from the western bogs as a bit less than fully human.

    In memoriam, I'm having a Guinness Dublin Porter, which is a sprightly brew.
    Last edited by Chip-skiff; 03-17-2017 at 04:57 PM.
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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Ah, I've a little Irish blood in my mongrel heritage too - great grandfather on one side came to Canada from Ireland, though 300 years before that the family had trundled to Ireland from Scotland. So who bloody knows, eh?

    Chip, I only hate you because it looks like you're gonna have a tastier evening ahead than I. As that may be true of many here, don't take my bad temper personally...
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianY View Post
    I heard a story on the radio about this a few days ago and yes, it's true: The corned beef in your typical St. Patrick's Day feast is not Irish. It's actually Jewish.
    The curing and preparation of corned beef is pretty much the same as for pastrami (which I've made at home). But the pastrami is rolled in cracked pepper, etc. and then smoked.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish



    That fourth bottle is a bit of an oxymoron. But then it is an Irish brewery.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Ah, I've a little Irish blood in my mongrel heritage too - great grandfather on one side came to Canada from Ireland, though 300 years before that the family had trundled to Ireland from Scotland.
    Were they Protestant colonists in Ulster? Gallowglass soldiers?



    My first forebear to reach the 'States was a MacGalyard, which is an uncommon name. The Macs and Ó's are generally old Irish names while the Fitz's and De's are Norman. I've wondered if Galyard came from Gailliard, which is Norman French.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Protestant colonists into the North, yup. Of course the family history's not entirely clear on the rationale (there was a fair bit of back-and-forth over the centuries), but it's the right period. That's the Spence part of the family, my mother's father's bit. Mom's mother's side was definitively Scot, proudly bearing the name Pitblado with them from Fife across to Winnipeg.

    It's Dad's side where it all really goes to hell. A mash of English bits, some Scot, and an indeterminate mixture of German and Polish. (I could be at war with myself at any moment.)
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    I have no problem thanking my Jewish friends and inviting them to a dinner of corned beef and cabbage. I'll throw in some carrots and potatoes to make my wife happy. It's all good and my Irish grandmother would not complain.

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by isla View Post
    Dude, why you do insist on talking bollocks a lot of the time...........

    The popularity of spaghetti spread throughout Italy after the establishment of spaghetti factories in the 19th century, enabling the mass production of spaghetti for the Italian market[/I]
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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    When I was young I remember all our priests wuz irish.

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    When I was young I remember all our priests wuz irish.
    St. Patrick was, of course, Welsh.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31912199
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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Such a bummer when St. Patrick's Day falls on a Friday during Lent. No corned beef this year anyway as my daughter talked me into giving up meat for the entirety of Lent. Ugh. I could really use a burger... But I'll settle for a stout.

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    ^ Eat more fish.

    Beaver was wiped out in England because the landed gentry and monasteries ate them. They had been classified as fish so that they could be cooked on non-meat days.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Hmm. Beaver: the other white meat.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    One reason the Irish (except for the Anglo gentry) scarcely knew the taste of beef is that it was shipped to England, a cash crop, even during the famine years.

    O the praties they were small, over there.
    O the praties they were small, over there.
    O the praties they were small, but we ate them skins and all,
    They were better than feck all, over there.
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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    I'm Irish on both sides. My mom's Mom, who grew up rural in County Cork, always scoffed at corned beef, maintaining that most folks were too poor to kill the cow.

    We had it anyway, but that's what Nana would say.

    Kevin
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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    St. Patrick was, of course, Welsh.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31912199
    .

    whatsupwitdat?.

    The Irish stole potatoes, the music of danny boy,, corned beef and St Patrick?.

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    ^ Eat more fish.

    Beaver was wiped out in England because the landed gentry and monasteries ate them. They had been classified as fish so that they could be cooked on non-meat days.
    I'd love to eat more fish, but the two 40 day vegetarians I live with don't love fish like I do. Eating so many beans I'm about to spontaneously combust...

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by pkrone View Post
    I'd love to eat more fish, but the two 40 day vegetarians I live with don't love fish like I do. Eating so many beans I'm about to spontaneously combust...
    Carry your own pilot light?

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by pkrone View Post
    I'd love to eat more fish, but the two 40 day vegetarians I live with don't love fish like I do. Eating so many beans I'm about to spontaneously combust...
    After the beans, there cometh lentils. . .
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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    I recall reading that celebrating Saint Patrick's day the way we do started as a recruiting tool in the Irish ghettoes of NY and Boston during the U.S. Civil War. It helped form the Irish regiments and was kept up for regimental reunions afterwards. It was never really a party day in Eire.
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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    The curing and preparation of corned beef is pretty much the same as for pastrami (which I've made at home). But the pastrami is rolled in cracked pepper, etc. and then smoked.
    What kind of paper are y'after using, then? I have a VERY hard time getting the booger lit!
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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    This thread is making me both hungry and thirsty.

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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Fish and chips didn't originate in England, the cooking technique of deep frying was brought there by Sephardic (African) Jews.

    In 1860, the first fish and chip shop was opened in London by Joseph Malin[8] who sold "fish fried in the Jewish fashion".
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    Default Re: St. Patrick's Day Downer: Corned Beef Isn't Irish

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    St. Patrick was, of course, Welsh.
    Indeed, and he was taken by pirates as a lad and sold as a slave in Ireland, where he was put to work as a shepherd.

    Whereafter, he escaped his bondage and repented mightily of his many sins with the sheep, becoming a priest.

    The part about him driving out the snakes is a lie. He persuaded them to emigrate to England, for the pleasing climate.
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