Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 36 to 57 of 57

Thread: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

  1. #36
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    3,373

    Default Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Thanks Daniel, I appreciate the invite to hang around. My first ever boat build was a little tippy dory that I added a pontoon to it so it would be stable enough to fish out of. Then I built a dory/skiff which had enough bottom area to be stable enough to fish out of and fished out of that boat for something like twenty years. And as you might know I've also built a birdwing SCAMP in 2014 with an OK for the experimental rig from Mr. Welsford so I guess I have enjoyed the wonderful seaworthiness of the dory type hulls as well as the great stability and huge capability of the small but powerful SCAMP design. So thanks for having me stick around.

    One thing I'm learning is that enough marine foam to make a boat unsinkable sure takes up a lot of space especially if you've got enough ballast aboard to also make the boat self- righting. I was a surfer for many years so I have an affection for foam because I've never seen a surfboard that wouldn't float. However it's a tricky mess to balance foam flotation and water/lead ballast amounts with space requirements for crew and provisions.

    There's also the windage thing. A boat with enough flotation high enough to make a boat unstable when it's up-side-down, also means that the boat will probably have a lot of freeboard exposed so more vulnerable to being pushed around by high winds so it's a real balancing act best left to professionals. I will be looking for a good boat designer to help check my figures for my flotation/ballast plan for the Yangtze because I do not pretend to be a boat designer. I will definitely need a living breathing boat designer at some point. But one thing that Captain Short wrote about his large Pelicans was that a Great Pelican can sail quite happily along even half full of water. So in redrawing the Yangtze Pelican for my own wants and wishes, I've come to realize that the Yangtze Pelican may be a boat that could be somewhat rowable, self-righting and unsinkable all at the same time. Oh! I forgot to mention that it can slide by in 6 or 7 inches of water. And that's a pretty tall order in the boat design world. Not that it would row all that well but never underestimate the rowing power of an old man scared half to death and rowing for dear life in high seas. (And you could easily say never overestimate it either).


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by kenjamin; 03-18-2017 at 11:10 AM.

  2. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    270

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    do as you wish Ken but this thread was by no means meant to be Centennial only... though the title is a little narrow, I'm interested to hear how any small adventure craft might claim to handle the conditions that brought Howard to grief.

    Watertight cabin, self-righting from full inversion, masts lashable horizontally over the deck and cockpit.

    -Some thoughts in this thread: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...+self+righting

    But I too have no solution how to get an anchor get grip in thick kelp vegetation. C.

  3. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Shore, Massachusetts
    Posts
    5,917

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenjamin View Post
    Thanks Daniel, I appreciate the invite to hang around. My first ever boat build was a little tippy dory that I added a pontoon to it so it would be stable enough to fish out of. Then I built a dory/skiff which had enough bottom area to be stable enough to fish out of and fished out of that boat for something like twenty years. And as you might know I've also built a birdwing SCAMP in 2014 with an OK for the experimental rig from Mr. Welsford so I guess I have enjoyed the wonderful seaworthiness of the dory type hulls as well as the great stability and huge capability of the small but powerful SCAMP design. So thanks for having me stick around.

    One thing I'm learning is that enough marine foam to make a boat unsinkable sure takes up a lot of space especially if you've got enough ballast aboard to also make the boat self- righting. I was a surfer for many years so I have an affection for foam because I've never seen a surfboard that wouldn't float. However it's a tricky mess to balance foam flotation and water/lead ballast amounts with space requirements for crew and provisions.

    There's also the windage thing. A boat with enough flotation high enough to make a boat unstable when it's up-side-down, also means that the boat will probably have a lot of freeboard exposed so more vulnerable to being pushed around by high winds so it's a real balancing act best left to professionals. I will be looking for a good boat designer to help check my figures for my flotation/ballast plan for the Yangtze because I do not pretend to be a boat designer. I will definitely need a living breathing boat designer at some point. But one thing that Captain Short wrote about his large Pelicans was that a Great Pelican can sail quite happily along even half full of water. So in redrawing the Yangtze Pelican for my own wants and wishes, I've come to realize that the Yangtze Pelican may be a boat that could be somewhat rowable, self-righting and unsinkable all at the same time. Oh! I forgot to mention that it can slide by in 6 or 7 inches of water. And that's a pretty tall order in the boat design world. Not that it would row all that well but never underestimate the rowing power of an old man scared half to death and rowing for dear life in high seas. (And you could easily say never overestimate it either).


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ken, I'm NOT a fan of the "cockpit full of water idea" but I do think you may be onto something as far as extreme water ballast is concerned... what about one or two large tanks, Berth sized or even larger capable of takin on 4-500 LBs of water in a small boat like scamp and more in a bigger boat 6-700 lbs in a boat like Centennial. these chambers could have generous large access hatches for storing supplies gear bottled water etc. in the event of extreme weather the lockers could be emptied and filled with seawater...

    or mabey a stash of large empty water bags that could be filled and lashed in the bildge with strapping and pad eyes....

    this way you have a fairly light functional small craft under 99% of conditions and a little brick in the water for the >1% of conditions where a boa is simply overpowered by the elements...

  4. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Shore, Massachusetts
    Posts
    5,917

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Watertight cabin, self-righting from full inversion, masts lashable horizontally over the deck and cockpit.

    -Some thoughts in this thread: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...+self+righting

    But I too have no solution how to get an anchor get grip in thick kelp vegetation. C.
    has your Mag article run yet? can you tell us any more? this is a permanent version of my idea of strapping inflated Gloucester ball to the deck bow and stern... lots of bouyancy up high. Is the self righting achieved with bouyancy and hull weight alone or is there ballast involved? water or permanent? in the centerboard or internal?

    looks like a very capable craft, similar size and weight, little larger transom but very much along the lines of how I envision Centennial.

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hamilton New Zealand
    Posts
    3,576

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    has your Mag article run yet? can you tell us any more? this is a permanent version of my idea of strapping inflated Gloucester ball to the deck bow and stern... lots of bouyancy up high. Is the self righting achieved with bouyancy and hull weight alone or is there ballast involved? water or permanent? in the centerboard or internal?

    looks like a very capable craft, similar size and weight, little larger transom but very much along the lines of how I envision Centennial.
    Note that SCAMP is designed to have high up bouyancy to assist in righting the boat from a capsize, the forward half of that little dummy cabin is enclosed behind watertight hatches to do just that. The boats exaggerated sheerline also provides more "lift" when she's turtled.
    Southern Cross also has an enclosed area under deck level at the transom, and Howard was carrying three of Duckworksmagazines excellent inflatable beach rollers which were tucked inside the roof of the cuddy when she was at sea.
    The record for righting a SCAMP from 90 deg, reboarding and getting her sailing again is 23 seconds. Sure that was in flat water but its an indication that its much easier than most boats to right and get under way.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  6. #41
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    3,373

    Default Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    John, the ease at which Howard was able to right SCAMP (on those righting videos) and the great difficulty he had getting her to go over in the first place are what attracted me to my SCAMP build in 2014. But from what I've read so far, in the rare conditions Howard was facing, didn't that fact that he had to right Southern Cross three times in a row lead to draining his strength? Would it have been better if the boat he was in was more self-righting like your ballasted Pelegrín design? Or am I missing something? Rowability?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  7. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    According to Howard he was struck by a waterspout or winds emanating from being in the close proximity of a "trombo marina" named for its resemblance to an inverted trumpet. No amount of ballast etc it going to help you in that situation. Small boats are not as seaworthy as bigger boats, no amount of fiddling with ballast will overcome that. Seamanship, sailing skill, planning and plain old luck are probably as big if not bigger considerations when working out which boat will be superior.

    I don't know how many pages have been written by Kenjamin extolling the virtues of his mast, but despite all assurances I know what kind of mast i would prefer in a survival situation and it sure aint a big heavy wooden wingmast.
    whatever rocks your boat

  8. #43
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    3,373

    Default Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Xena's mast was heavy at 40 lbs. but that was ten years ago. Gabrielle's mast (for my SCAMP) was much lighter and could easily be stepped or struck on the water because it could be walked up to the mast step on the aft edge of cubby roof and then locked in place by a polyethylene bushing - worked great! The mast I built for my Saturday Night Special was taller, lighter built, thinner, and with less curvature than all my previous birdwing masts and was well tested in the 30 knot winds of South Texas including stepping the mast half way to Port Mansfield in the Texas 200. If you want to continually judge me for prototype #2 when I am about to build prototype #6, go for it, dude, but you are quite a bit behind the times in the development of the birdwing mast.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by kenjamin; 03-18-2017 at 04:53 PM.

  9. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Shore, Massachusetts
    Posts
    5,917

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    an image posted by Howard of the Tromba type winds that flipped SC Scamp.


  10. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    60,861

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    That'll do it !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  11. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenjamin View Post
    Xena's mast was heavy at 40 lbs. but that was ten years ago. Gabrielle's mast (for my SCAMP) was much lighter and could easily be stepped or struck on the water because it could be walked up to the mast step on the aft edge of cubby roof and then locked in place by a polyethylene bushing - worked great! The mast I built for my Saturday Night Special was taller, lighter built, thinner, and with less curvature than all my previous birdwing masts and was well tested in the 30 knot winds of South Texas including stepping the mast half way to Port Mansfield in the Texas 200. If you want to continually judge me for prototype #2 when I am about to build prototype #6, go for it, dude, but you are quite a bit behind the times in the development of the birdwing mast.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    The aerodynamic and practical considerations of wing masts are well known, I cant see your mast variation escaping the laws of physics and empirical evidence although you may build them lighter and so on. However I would point out that it is very difficult to judge wind speed and in reference to this thread and others on a similar subject, most people significantly overestimate it. Unless a person is an experienced sailor who has been in those conditions regularly and had their observations backed up by accurate calibrated instruments, they are guessing wildly once wind gets upwards of their experience level.

    P = V ^2 x 0.0043
    where P = pressure in lbs / ft ^2
    V = wind speed in knots.
    whatever rocks your boat

  12. #47
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    3,373

    Default Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    What makes my birdwing mast unique and worthy of a patent according to the U.S. Patent Office is its sickle shape which allows it to rotate in a balanced fashion within the mast step and also present curvature along its entire length that is in the airflow. It's a fairly complex shape with a round cross section where it rotates within the mast step transitioning to the air foil shape cross sections used along the length of it's curved part. My prototypes have all been in wood because that is what I can afford and that's what I'm comfortable shaping and machining the internal halyard tunnels. It will not be an easy shape to manufacture in carbon fiber but in that material it could reach its full potential in my opinion.

    As for the wind speed in the Texas 200, I was just going by what I heard on the marine report on the radio. When I was coming into Port Mansfield I can tell you I was surfing down good sized swells with breaking waves all around me and crashing into standing waves due to shallow water, a fast moving current and howling wind. If it wasn't 30 knots, it was plenty fast enough for little old me! Of the fifty something boats in the event, 18 of them including me baled out at Port Mansfield. It was nicer the next day but I had gotten so sunburned the first day I could not continue. I learned a lot about what it takes to endure sailing in South Texas in the middle of June. For me, I'm gonna need a good full-time sunshade. I tried covering up like the veterans of the event do but I got so hot in the 100 degree heat that I started getting dizzy and figured I had to go back to the sunscreen lotion that somehow always kept getting washed and blown off. I lived and learned but it was quite the adventure.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by kenjamin; 03-18-2017 at 07:54 PM.

  13. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenjamin View Post
    What makes my birdwing mast unique and worthy of a patent according to the U.S. Patent Office is its sickle shape which allows it to rotate in a balanced fashion within the mast step and also present curvature along its entire length that is in the airflow. It's a fairly complex shape with a round cross section where it rotates within the mast step transitioning to the air foil shape cross sections used along the length of it's curved part. My prototypes have all been in wood because that is what I can afford and that's what I'm comfortable shaping and machining the internal halyard tunnels. It will not be an easy shape to manufacture in carbon fiber but in that material it could reach its full potential in my opinion.

    As for the wind speed in the Texas 200, I was just going by what I heard on the marine report on the radio. When I was coming into Port Mansfield I can tell you I was surfing down good sized swells with breaking waves all around me and crashing into standing waves due to shallow water, a fast moving current and howling wind. If it wasn't 30 knots, it was plenty fast enough for little old me! Of the fifty something boats in the event, 18 of them including me baled out at Port Mansfield. It was nicer the next day but I had gotten so sunburned the first day I could not continue. I learned a lot about what it takes to endure sailing in South Texas in the middle of June. For me, I'm gonna need a good full-time sunshade. I tried covering up like the veterans of the event do but I got so hot in the 100 degree heat that I started getting dizzy and figured I had to go back to the sunscreen lotion that somehow always kept getting washed and blown off. I lived and learned but it was quite the adventure.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Patents are granted for all kinds of weird and wonderful things, so that does not validate the masts merits (or invalidate them) so its a non sequitur as far as this discussion is concerned. You mention stepping a mast while at sea, in the conditions you describe it would be virtually impossible so I suspect it was done before the sea got up? Some clarification would help.

    Wind strengths on marine forecasts are often inaccurate as some anemometer locations are well above sea level or are affected by local anomalies. As an example I have been within a few hundred metres of a local site where it was recording 30 and my instruments were 18, that site was 100 metres up on a hill. In my experience a solid 30 kts in a small boat in a building sea can be very frightening if you dont have options to bail out or run with it, let alone wind against tide.

    Finally back to your mast design,
    its sickle shape which allows it to rotate in a balanced fashion within the mast step and also present curvature along its entire length that is in the airflow. It's a fairly complex shape with a round cross section where it rotates within the mast step transitioning to the air foil shape cross sections used along the length of it's curved part.
    To me (dont take this as challenge btw) this is just gobbledegook what does it actually mean when sailing?
    whatever rocks your boat

  14. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    new zealand
    Posts
    2,534

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G. View Post
    According to Howard he was struck by a waterspout or winds emanating from being in the close proximity of a "trombo marina" named for its resemblance to an inverted trumpet. No amount of ballast etc it going to help you in that situation. Small boats are not as seaworthy as bigger boats, no amount of fiddling with ballast will overcome that. Seamanship, sailing skill, planning and plain old luck are probably as big if not bigger considerations when working out which boat will be superior.

    I don't know how many pages have been written by Kenjamin extolling the virtues of his mast, but despite all assurances I know what kind of mast i would prefer in a survival situation and it sure aint a big heavy wooden wingmast.
    I think that is open to debate, and depends very much on the design, as well the other factors you mention.
    A larger boat should be able to make useful progress in worse conditions than a smaller boat and provide a more comfortable ride - up to a point. Beyond that, where it comes down to ultimate survivability, the loads imposed on the smaller boat are substantially less than those on a larger vessel, and things are less likely to fail catastrophically.
    Southern Cross survived intact, unattended for a week. A larger yacht sank due to the conditions at the time. YMMV

    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

  15. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Sweden,Scilly Isles, Siberia
    Posts
    7,467

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Sven Yrvind makes good points about "loads" on some of his micro cruisers, what might appear to be weak, is far stronger by magnitude than some items on larger, heavier craft. Some of those "small" details he seems to be working on for a long time, are actually details that could be the difference between life and death. Small , light boats have nowhere near the loads imposed on them, and adding ballast can significantly add to loads that should be accounted for.

  16. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Pete you make a good point but I mean "all things being equal" thats the quality of construction, seamanship, engineering calcs etc. A corked bottle has proven to be infinitely more seaworthy than the Titanic but hardly an equal analogy! Small boats are simply not as seaworthy as larger vessels of the same style, and yes they can be capable of extraordinary feats but there is reason why the Argentine Navy do not patrol the Beagle Channel in gaff rigged open boats.

    I saw a boat in the Marina today that I was most impressed with, Ill see if I can take a snap next time. It was a double ended unstayed junk rigged schooner of about 28 feet, steel construction with an observation bubble, steel door on the companionway, small cockpit, small hard dodger, windvane steering etc. It looked tough, extremely practical, well prepared and very seaworthy, that is a boat I would take into those Southern waters over any ply dinghy or classic dory.

    So getting back to Daniels dory, what would I choose for rough conditions, neither! I think a lightly built Scamp with the sweet lug rig would be lots of fun in sheltered water, camp cruising on a good forecast is its natural environment. Same with the Centennial, lets get real here who wants to prove a point by heading offshore in an archaic small boat unless you are slightly mad!

    Ill leave you will a short vid that may remind you why I dont think small fun boats should not be encouraged to head to sea.
    <br>
    Last edited by Paul G.; 03-19-2017 at 03:18 AM.
    whatever rocks your boat

  17. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    new zealand
    Posts
    2,534

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    I think it is very easy to buy into the idea that your chosen design can take on the world! While nobody can deny that Centennial has crossed the Atlantic, and given favourable condition could do so again, only a fool would think that that makes the design invincible.
    I'd guess that on a good day, Centennial would probabably cover more ground than Scamp. On a really bad day, as Howard experienced, I'd be far more confident of finding an intact salvageable boat a week later with Scamp. Plywood, glass and epoxy make for an incredibly robust structure when done right, with no joints to "work". One of my CLC sea kayaks got picked up in a gust, and was going end for end down a stony beach - I was expecting kindling and a long walk home. I was hard pressed to find a mark on it. 4mm ply and 6oz glass at kayak scale is unbelievably tough.

    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

  18. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,047

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G. View Post
    Patents are granted for all kinds of weird and wonderful things, so that does not validate the masts merits (or invalidate them) so its a non sequitur as far as this discussion is concerned. You mention stepping a mast while at sea, in the conditions you describe it would be virtually impossible so I suspect it was done before the sea got up? Some clarification would help.

    Wind strengths on marine forecasts are often inaccurate as some anemometer locations are well above sea level or are affected by local anomalies. As an example I have been within a few hundred metres of a local site where it was recording 30 and my instruments were 18, that site was 100 metres up on a hill. In my experience a solid 30 kts in a small boat in a building sea can be very frightening if you dont have options to bail out or run with it, let alone wind against tide.

    Finally back to your mast design,

    To me (dont take this as challenge btw) this is just gobbledegook what does it actually mean when sailing?
    You just saved me from making the same points.

    Last weekend I was at the state championships for a high performance catamaran class. The multiple world champion in the A Class - carbon wing-masted hydrofoiling 18 foot cats - was there. He made 100 sails last year in his part time business. Other boats had wingmasts created by many other sparmakers and sailmakers, often with input from America's Cup sailors and designers. There would have been 20 or so different wingmast designs there, all of them with different characteristics that offered a lot of information if people wanted to learn it - and this was of course just one minor regatta in one corner of the world.

    The guys who create these wingmasts often spend their lives thinking design, and they talk to each other, learn from each other, do things like wind tunnel testing, do boat-on-boat testing, cut dozens or hundreds of experimental sails, play with rig adjustments, etc etc etc, in regatta upon regatta. There's a huge amount of shared knowledge. There are also some very popular wing-masted monohull dinghies that again are the product of dozens of different wingmast developments, hundreds of different sail developments, wind tunnel tests etc. Then of course there's the whole big-multi development scene involving vast boats of up to 130 feet long and huge pro programmes.

    This enormous amount of development over many decades has given us all a pretty good idea of what wingmasts do and do not do. It's odd that quite a few people just ignore the huge amount of lore developed by many very smart and hard-working people over the years, make claims that are not substantiated, and won't address it when people raise the issues that are involved.
    Last edited by Chris249; 03-19-2017 at 04:10 AM.

  19. #54
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hamilton New Zealand
    Posts
    3,576

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    You just saved me from making the same points.

    Last weekend I was at the state championships for a high performance catamaran class. The multiple world champion in the A Class - carbon wing-masted hydrofoiling 18 foot cats - was there. He made 100 sails last year in his part time business. Other boats had wingmasts created by many other sparmakers and sailmakers, often with input from America's Cup sailors and designers. There would have been 20 or so different wingmast designs there, all of them with different characteristics that offered a lot of information if people wanted to learn it - and this was of course just one minor regatta in one corner of the world.

    The guys who create these wingmasts often spend their lives thinking design, and they talk to each other, learn from each other, do things like wind tunnel testing, do boat-on-boat testing, cut dozens or hundreds of experimental sails, play with rig adjustments, etc etc etc, in regatta upon regatta. There's a huge amount of shared knowledge. There are also some very popular wing-masted monohull dinghies that again are the product of dozens of different wingmast developments, hundreds of different sail developments, wind tunnel tests etc. Then of course there's the whole big-multi development scene involving vast boats of up to 130 feet long and huge pro programmes.

    This enormous amount of development over many decades has given us all a pretty good idea of what wingmasts do and do not do. It's odd that quite a few people just ignore the huge amount of lore developed by many very smart and hard-working people over the years, make claims that are not substantiated, and won't address it when people raise the issues that are involved.
    I had the great privilege of teaching yacht design at a university that had on our staff the scientist / Naval Architect who developed the twisted flow wind tunnel that Team New Zealand used to such great effect to win two Americas cup challenges. Ross is a great guy, and I learned a lot from our conversations, that development work is still ongoing and I get to watch TNZ out there not far from where I play on the water, get to talk to guys who sail on and maintain the boats, and am awed by what they do. But those "sails" are not good for general use, have to be taken down when not being actively controlled, and although they have a lot of adjustment available they cause real problems when things dont go quite right.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  20. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    I had the great privilege of teaching yacht design at a university ....
    Just curious John, what qualifications to you hold to teach yacht design at a University and..at what University did you teach at? Typically those at Uni who teach are those that hold Master degrees or those that are wanting to become Professors. Do you got a degree as a Naval Architect? Also, those that hold those positions are people who have been in the commercial industry typically for around 10 years, which is typically a requirement. In what capacity did you so called "Teach", if you don't hold a degree? I know that the University of Tasmania (Australian Maritime College) where they teach Naval Architecture, do bring in qualified shipwrights from time to time (around twice a year) to explain to students the construction techniques and parts of the boats themselves, but that is about a far as it goes. But as I mentioned, these people are qualified shipwrights, whereby they have completed apprenticeships and served time in the boat building industry for around 10 years of more.

    The reason I ask is, I am a Professor at Westlawn (http://www.westlawn.edu/who/faculty.asp ), however after graduating, I spent 10 years in the industry as a Naval Architect working for Companies such as Tom Fexas Yacht Designs (design boats between 55 - 200 ft), then as Chief Naval Architect at ABA (Aluminium Boats Australia) where we designed and built commercial ferries/ Government Patrol boats and Navy Patrol Boats. It was after all this that Westlawn (Dave Gerr), approached me asking was I interested in becoming an Assistant Professor. When Dave Gerr resigned, I was then made Head Professor of the department.

    Now if you were invited to give a talk on small boat design once or twice a year, its ok to say so. But with what your saying, your implying that you were a part of the full time faculty, teaching and marking lessons every day.
    Anyway, ...just curious ?
    --------------
    Just some of the boats we designed/ built or repaired whilst working as a Naval Architect for the above firms











    Last edited by Mark Bowdidge; 03-19-2017 at 07:26 AM.

  21. #56
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    3,373

    Default Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Now for the very last time, my birdwing mast is Not A Wing Mast At All. That is what it has going for it that's better than all those multi-million dollar experiments that those who can afford it race with. My design is much more like a conventional mast in a very unconventional shape!

    I just call it a birdwing mast because that's what I wanted to call it as it does remind me of a bird's wing due to it's overall presentation of good old removable Dacron sailcloth.

    What might help in the understanding of my design is realizing it has become a two stage invention. It was originally designed to store better in the boat because my fishing buddy of twenty years complained loudly, obnoxiously, and effectively about the conventional straight mast being in the way of his fishing. While staring at my skiff in my garage one night, I realized I might be able to glue up a curved mast that would be completely out of his way when stored. I did and it did - 100% successful! Then my dear mom passed away and left me a good pile of money to build a better boat and a better mast.

    My curved mast design got so good in my mind with all the improvements that I had thought of that I decided to look into getting a patent. I was able to talk FSU into pursuing the patent and after seven years and $16,000 worth of lawyer fees, FSU was granted a U.S. patent ( #8,739,720) in June 2014. After doing nothing with the patent (no one at FSU understood it either) I complained to the Vice President of Research at FSU and his solution was to sell it back to me.

    So now it is up to me, a retired graphic artist with a small amount of money coming in each month to prove its worth. The funny part to me is the thing that plagues wing rigs the most is the very thing that my design does best. I would be willing to bet my birdwing rig can be turned off more quickly and more completely and more safely and from any point of sail than any rig on the planet. When my latest prototype drops sail you are left with a skinny fully curved aerodynamic foil that responds quickly and sensitively to wind direction with extremely low amount of aerodynamic drag. I have also found that because of careful laminations of aircraft quality spruce and also because of its curved shape, a birdwing mast can effectively set a headsail without conventional back stays. (Although there are plenty of people who insist that this is not possible). Because of its rotating sickle shape, it is also the only rig I know of that can set balanced sail for downwind work with just a single spar.

    My research budget is extremely small so real progress in my design is extremely slow. In the last ten years I have made only five prototypes but I have learned something from each and every one of them. With my next boat build I hope to show the world a boat and birdwing mast that will be difficult to ignore - Captain William H. Short's Yangtze Pelican pocket junk design from 1986. I may never make a dime from my birdwing rig design but I can guarantee you I will have a heck of a good time trying!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by kenjamin; 03-19-2017 at 07:26 AM.

  22. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Shore, Massachusetts
    Posts
    5,917

    Default Re: Centennial Vs. Scamp?

    Ok, too much thread drift, like trying to anchor in kelp.


    I would be interested to hear from Craic about the Bay Raider if he gets around to it, maybe start it's own thread.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •