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Thread: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

  1. #176

    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    I'll take that.

    I strongly disagree with you.

    But I'll take that.

    Big wooden boats are doing it the hard way, thankfully there are enough insane people still around to get some done.

    I have a wealth of friends in Cornwall who live on pilchard drivers, East coast smacks, old luggers, who rebuild, cruise and race them, like 20 people, 18 boats. They are strictly anti-internet because they live the life, and to 'show and tell' it would dilute and compromise their integrity. Proper boat gypsies who have an enormous amount of wooden boat and sailing knowledge. I respect that and do not infringe on their right to privacy.

    If I did, the WBF would wet itself. I have a wealth of friends in Cornwall who live on pilchard drivers, East coast smacks, old luggers, who rebuild, cruise and race them, like 20 people, 18 boats. They are strictly anti-internet because they live the life, and to 'show and tell' it would dilute and compromise their integrity.
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah bollix
    Me, I have no such pride.

    Wooden boat building is alive and well in Cornwall.
    I have a wealth of friends in Cornwall who live on pilchard drivers, East coast smacks, old luggers, who rebuild, cruise and race them, like 20 people, 18 boats. They are strictly anti-internet because they live the life, and to 'show and tell' it would dilute and compromise their integrity. bollixhahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    Boat Designer. Boatbuilder

  2. #177
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    And your point is that you're drunk too?

  3. #178
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Some people like to advertise what they are doing on threads because they want more "Patreons" to finance their builds and dreams; others, like a friend of mine, built a 25ton Mounts Bay type lugger with no social media posts at all, but then he wanted a "home" and did what was needed to build it, without wasting time documenting everything and without needing someone elses "thumbs-up", in order to crack on.
    With regards to traditional built boats in prime timbers being worth more, a Herroshof design was built in France for somewhere approaching 500,000 Euros, top quality work and sails, last seen for sale at 375,000Euros, and yet RM yachts building in plywood and epoxy have a waiting list; their boats are "cheaper" and without the maintenance issue of "real" wood.It would appear that time is a more precious commodity these days.

  4. #179
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    I think a lot of the blog/build/repair type posts are over on F***book now, as its easy to post pics and keep in contact with everyone else, a sort of one stop shop for all your on-line posting.
    There are several groups I'm a part of that are thriving with old wooden working boats. There are people restoring, running their boats privately, running their boats commercially and working the boats. The groups are full of info with yards, service providers, parts for sale and boats for sale. I even sold my last boat to a group member.
    I've notice a similar decline on the other forums that I frequent, with people jumping on the fb bandwagon. The big problem with it, is the potential for a catastrophic move, like photobucket did, could wipe out all that info overnight. I tend to save anything I think might be useful.

    As for frozen snot, no thanks, been there done that. scratch itch scratch itch cold shower scratch itch

  5. #180
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Some people like to advertise what they are doing on threads because they want more "Patreons" to finance their builds and dreams; others, like a friend of mine, built a 25ton Mounts Bay type lugger with no social media posts at all, but then he wanted a "home" and did what was needed to build it, without wasting time documenting everything and without needing someone elses "thumbs-up", in order to crack on.
    ...
    What a cynical (& unkind) view! I've talked (real world) with a number of the folks who've posted build threads here & that is not why they've done it. But if you think they are all insecure, selfish jerks, why do you bother coming around here? I, for one, appreciate the time they've taken to document their builds & have learned from every one.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  6. #181
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    What a cynical (& unkind) view! I've talked (real world) with a number of the folks who've posted build threads here & that is not why they've done it. But if you think they are all insecure, selfish jerks, why do you bother coming around here? I, for one, appreciate the time they've taken to document their builds & have learned from every one.
    Pleas note the use of the word "some". I, like many others, are willing to share on the basis that it might be of help and interest to others, and not for any kind of financial gain. Your projection of " if you think they are ALL" , is entirely misguided, inaccurate, and to use your words, unkind.

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    What an entertaining thread... Not much to add but to say it seems to me that if boat builders are also sailors then the choice of boat size and the choice of construction method really must be strongly influenced by one's intentions once the boat is built. Sometimes trad boats make sense, sometimes not, but that all depends on the reasons for building in the first place doesn't it?

  8. #183
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    I can say with conviction that I hate glass work, layup or grinding.
    ha ha, totally heard, it can be pretty awful.
    I got to like the challenges of really big rebuilds eventually and had a guy to do all the heavy grinding, which I vetoed from the start. The nice thing about glass boats is that they're still boats, and the improvisation factor is still very strong, plus the quality of materials still has to there, unlike building houses let's say which are mostly built with junk

  9. #184
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Glass used for hulls can be an extremely good material, and the topsides are easier to create watertight envelopes. However I don't care for the look of most top side designs. Then there is the smell of resins.....aaahhh.

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    I know of only one job where Patreon is mentioned and it has nothing to do with financial gain. It has to do with restoring a great boat that would otherwise have been cut up. It is expensive and labor intensive, but a labor of love that will yield a vessel to sail and empty the bank account.

  11. #186
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Glass used for hulls can be an extremely good material, and the topsides are easier to create watertight envelopes. However I don't care for the look of most top side designs. Then there is the smell of resins.....aaahhh.
    I feel the same way about the decks on glass boats, problem is, there's a thing called "draft" which means that no matter there has to be a 2 degree slope to the sides of any part to allow it to come out of the mold. It's a major design requirement and it's why glass boats look so... well... molded.

  12. #187
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Pleas note the use of the word "some". I, like many others, are willing to share on the basis that it might be of help and interest to others, and not for any kind of financial gain. Your projection of " if you think they are ALL" , is entirely misguided, inaccurate, and to use your words, unkind.
    Fair enough - but I haven't seen any threads that struck me as looking for pats on the back or the like.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Man.

    Reading this makes me feel like my punt thread (the one that didnít get photopoofed) is an affront to the magazine and website.

    I will surely think twice before posting any more boats built of plywood.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Man.

    Reading this makes me feel like my punt thread (the one that didnít get photopoofed) is an affront to the magazine and website.

    I will surely think twice before posting any more boats built of plywood.

    Peace,
    Robert
    post it if you enjoyed building rob.

    post it if you didn't enjoy building too.

  15. #190
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Nah Rob, just fling it up. We love all sorts.

    I'd like to know where the Dark Harbour guy went. If you want a lesson in how to take humiliation, look that thread up!

  16. #191
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Man.

    Reading this makes me feel like my punt thread (the one that didnít get photopoofed) is an affront to the magazine and website.

    I will surely think twice before posting any more boats built of plywood.

    Peace,
    Robert
    I wouldn't let any of that affect your posting. This is an internet forum. As far as I can see it's the place to share your wooden boat lust, no matter the construction method.
    Last edited by navydog; 01-13-2018 at 09:02 PM.

  17. #192
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Meh.

    I will certainly think twice about what I post in the future.

    I certainly have no tradition to fall back on, and nor do I live anywhere suitable for owning a boat utilizing traditional construction.

    As I said, this thread opened my eyes.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Curiosity and some of the discussion in this thread sent me off to read issue number one of woodenboat, below is the first editorís note by Jon Wilson. It makes for some interesting reading.

    It seems only yesterday that this magazine was conceived, and yet some 8 months have slipped by unnoticed. Ten months ago, I wouldn't have be- lieved that I'd be writing an editor's page for anything, much less a magazine on wooden boats. Indeed, ten months ago, I was poking around in lumber yards, looking for some good cedar and oak with which to build a little Abaco Dinghy. Little did I know what lay in store.The transition from boatbuilder to publisher is not without its obstacles, but all of them are made infinitely easier by the incredible response we've had to this. Nowhere have I received discouragement, and, in fact, the prevailing reaction is, "it's about time!" I can't help but agree.


    Through a number of boatbuilding apprenticeship programs, we're produc- ing quite a number of fledgling boatbuilders with an impassioned determina- tion to build fine wooden boats. Yet for these young men and women, there has been, until now, no contemporary journal published which addresses it- self entirely to the areas of owning, building and designing wooden yachts and small boats. To the future of these young people, embarking on a career that will bring them not riches, but satisfaction, this magazine is dedicated.


    Our purpose is to help in the discovery of the ideal delicate blends of tra- ditional craftsmanship with modern technological developments. When we consider the kinds of advances that the related technologies in adhesives, paints, fastenings, and even in wood itself have been making, it becomes apparent that there is a good deal of catching up to do. THE WOODEN BOAT will help us to catch up.


    While we are interested in a program of inquiry related to wooden boats only, it is by no means our purpose to deny or discredit any other boat build- ing methods or materials, nor to appear fanatical about the use of wood. It is simply our intention to contribute to an advanced understanding and appreci- ation of a modern wood boat building technology. For those doomsayers who might wonder just how long a magazine on wooden boats could possibly survive, it seems fitting to remind them that wood is, after all, our only re- newable construction resource, a factor of considerable importance at this time of diminishing supplies in other fields.


    There is no material that isn't acceptable for publication as long as it relates somehow to wooden boats, and as long as it is accurate in detail. I'd like to invite readers to participate in this by submitting ideas, articles, photo- graphs, or anything they consider of interest to their fellow readers.


    You'll find very little advertising in this issue, but it won't always be this way, nor should it be. We are a unique group of readers, and we require a unique group of advertisers. There are products which are uniquely suited to our requirements, and the only way we can become aware of many of them is through advertising. Rest assured, however, that the percentage of adver- tising material will be kept low and chosen carefully.


    As you read through the material in this issue, see if you agree that in spite of what many of us might have thought, here, indeed, is a magazine whose time has come.
    But I would like to point out, the ďModern SharpieĒ build featured in the same issue didnít have a lick of plywood or fiberglass in it.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  19. #194
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Meh.

    I will certainly think twice about what I post in the future.

    I certainly have no tradition to fall back on, and nor do I live anywhere suitable for owning a boat utilizing traditional construction.

    As I said, this thread opened my eyes.

    Peace,
    Robert
    All should be welcome here Rob. There is a long tradition cheap and cheerful builds like yours. No reason to stop now. This place doesn’t need less builds with modern materials. It needs everything it has and more. It’s not an exclusive need.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Yeah, I reread the entire thread.

    I just finished posting a build of a duck punt made from lumberyard and hardware (no big boxes) material. It included home made copper rivets, and a set of boom jaws split and sawn out of a persimmon crook.

    So, Iím not sure where that fits in, but it seems to not be here.

    I am not at all unskilled, nor incapable of building a y boat boat, of any type. From wood. In fact, if you show up at my house, I can measure you for and make you a kayak based on your body size and type, and I wonít even need any glue. Or any measuring device more complicated than a stick.
    I will even hand harvest the oak or ash ribs, as Iíve done on my other boats.
    Shoot, Iíll do the whole thing without a single power tool.
    I still have my last, and favorite, kayak frame. I canít get in it easily, nor roll reliably, anymore, so I donít paddle,it anymore, and it isnít skinned, but itís here, testament to me. Yippee me!

    But, my crappy plywood boats apparently say otherwise. I must be crass and unskilled. Unwilling and/or unable to learn. Second tier?

    For the record, since Ted asked earlier, Iíve given away 17 boats, and introduced dozens of people to canoeing and kayaking. Iím new to the sailing, myself, but an accomplished paddler.
    We took our kidsí friend out on a few of our boats on New Yearís Day, and she had never been to a lake or on a boat. She loved our dumb barge punt, and the duck punt.
    Weíre going to help her make her own pirogue. Yep. Crappy plywood and lumberyard sticks. Sheís excited, as sheís never owned anything like a boat, and never used a tool. She is excited.

    I wonít post the build, for fear of insulting the hoary traditions of real wooden boat building. Here.
    As has been clearly stated, there are places for people like me...

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. Obviously everyone doesnít feel this way, but it seems enough do, and I donít want to impose by saturating the forum more with low quality builds.

  21. #196
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    ^ Rob, I would hope you decide to stay on here whether you post any new builds or not - I 'lurked' this Forum for some 15 years before joining, afraid that it might devolve into what another (Jeep) forum I visited might become. That one circled the drain in a death-spiral of venom and acrimony that we do not see here. Instead, we have been fortunate to have had great advice and other information not only on boats and boating, but on topics as diverse as solar power, gardening, guitar construction, and care and feeding of the ideal workshow.

    To net it out, everyone has something to contribute, and something to gain from their visits here.

    I hope to see you continuing to post


    Rick

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    ^ Mate, thats sad. There are more here that would rather see anything being built than not. Those that are complaining are the ones that seem to have the attitude that if you cannot afford to have a boat built out of prime exotic timbers and the best bronze hardware, then you should not be building at all.....i even knew a few people with this outlook.....they consider themselves elitist, and i have had crossed words with a very well known Knighted chap for his obsessive "class" mentality, who did not mind using third world labour to build his boat, but doesnt want "them" out there sailing. I like Storers box boats for precisely the reason a certain person would despise them, they get people out there afloat that otherwise cannot afford it. Just as your "dumb" box boats have given a young girl her first taste of being on the water, that in itself is an almost priceless thing to offer someone, who without the "dumb" boat, would not have the oppurtunity.
    Your presence here does more good than harm, and those that feel the need for any negative comments, should ask themselves what they gain by doing so.
    If i made a bad judgement call remarking on people using Patreon or wanting sponsers, its only because i see the same people complaining about the time it takes to write up a blog or make videos; i guess if you want support and free money, you have to provide some kind of entertainment for the sponsers......the alternative is to get a job like most other people, and work on the boat in the evenings and weekends.That being said, i have no issue with anyone who wants to donate to such projects, its your money after all. I want to stress not EVERYONE who looks for help is a self serving parasite, just to be clear.
    Anyway, im done on this thread. There will always be those that will look down on galvanized fastenings, and anything outside of Jeffs seam caulk and Dolphinite is the Devils work and should never be considered. Maybe, long, long ago, some bloke on a riverbank who saw a man chopping out the inside of a log ( to save further argument, we will assume a local log and not imported) with his stone axe, suggested to this bloke, "if you do that, you will weaken it....."
    I always thought boats could and do bridge divides.....and should not be used as wedges.
    Last edited by skaraborgcraft; 01-14-2018 at 05:30 AM.

  23. #198
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Yea Rob ... doan do dat
    A few people here give off warmth no matter what they post . Lew comes to mind . ...and you .

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Yea Rob ... doan do dat
    A few people here give off warmth no matter what they post . Lew comes to mind . ...and you .
    and wizbang...

  25. #200
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    It is a bit tempting to start a new thread... something along the lines of: 'The rise of the antiestablishment boat'...

  26. #201
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Horsefeathers Rob - keep on posting whatever you find interesting. There are curmudgeons everywhere & sometimes the best thing to do is ignore them. Of course they also may have a great deal of knowledge, so ignoring them doesn't always work. Life is such a balancing act. Where'd I put that pig pole?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Oh, It is my flaw, to be clear. I do not like the incessant negativity.

    It’s not you, it’s me.

    Seriously, I am not one to rock the boat. I simply wanted to add my reaction to the thread. I probabaly won’t leave, again, (I joined years ago, tried discussing a strip/glass canoe repair, and decided to leave rather than put up with the snark) but I will think long and hard about posting anything else in B and R. I surely will not resuscitate the Sneakeasy thread.

    No way I’ll restore a square plywood boat here, now. No way. There are places for boats like that. I certainly don’t wish to defend my every decision, or justify what I like, to be able to share my projects with others.

    Why does anyone like anything?

    Peace,
    A Little Saddened By The Virtiol, But I Hear You And Respect Your Opinions

  28. #203
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Yeah, Rob, damn those torpedoes. I expect my next thread to be about putting together a plywood kit boat. Smoke that in yer old pipes ye tarry handed, slop-clad wielders of marlinspikes and caulking mallets!
    -Dave

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    ^ Wot? You mean something that probably comes in a box with instructions? A precision kit, cut by lasers to 100% accuracy? No, no no....thats just too damn easy and accurate to be called "real" boatbuilding......


    Look forward to seeing the Autumn Leaves build thread....

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Yeah, Rob, damn those torpedoes. I expect my next thread to be about putting together a plywood kit boat. Smoke that in yer old pipes ye tarry handed, slop-clad wielders of marlinspikes and caulking mallets!
    Oh, and what a lovely boat I think she is, too. And, now Iíve surely exposed myself as a heretic.

    But, again, I am not saying anyone is wrong. The words were overly harsh, to my eyes, in some cases, even if the sentiment was on the money. I am certainly not expert enough to decide what is what, but I am wise enough to read between the lines.

    There are many wonderful people here, and projects, but it seems there is a great divide, and I donít wish to drive any more wedges into it.
    I am content to add no more content. There are PLENTY of people smarter, handier, and more knowledgeable than me to fill this space with their projects.

    Besides, with fir ply, I donít want to be hitting any torpedoes.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Phooey

    I've documented 3 plywood boat builds here with one particularly snarky comment that is still stuck in my craw despite any number of supportive ones that followed. But he is a notoriously cantankerous bugger so I've opted to write off most of his malignant mutterings as those of a grumpy old man...there is the odd bit of good information buried in the chaff so he hasn't made my ignore list (yet).

    I want to see your boat, anybody who doesn't like it does not have to open the thread.
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  32. #207
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    I expect my next thread to be about putting together a plywood kit boat.
    Just to spite the nay-sayers, I'm considering my next build to be out of MacDonald drinking straws, super glue and nylon carpet fluff.

  33. #208
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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    B79FD17E-8584-49BB-BE35-83CB3E489371.jpg

    96112EC5-C36B-476C-80E3-F3A99DF1DB55.jpg

    5754DDB0-C111-4A1E-AB95-9B3ECA1A9BD8.jpg

    B72DDF40-CF09-45F1-BDA3-A354AB3201E9.jpg

    B7E3A8DB-86B2-457B-B945-D7BF62655C18.jpg

    Some pictures from my last build. All this effort for a lumberyard boat. The little round thimble I turned from the end of the same branch I got the jaws from, on the spring pole lathe I built and documented here, on the forum.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    83DE0622-8012-4338-AE0D-9598CACE82E5.jpg
    Don’t tell anyone, but these oars are going on a boat made from lumberyard plywood. By a hack with no skill.

    A27E2949-3828-4CD5-8523-AF9014A290DC.jpg
    And this spliced, laminated stick will be the yard for a standing lug used on a boat made with lumberyard plywood. That thick portion of the glue line makes me want to burn the whole thing. It isn’t too long, though.
    But, Hey, what do you expect from handsaws and handplanes. A ryoba saw and a no5 plane will only do so good a job. Especially a cheap ryoba and a swap meet plane, reconditioned by an unskilled hack.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Decline of Real Wood Building and Restoration Threads

    All I can say Rob is; It is the work, itself that tells us what is needed! Keep up the good work!
    Jay

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