Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

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  • David G
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2003
    • 89687

    Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

    In Georgia, reaction to KKK banner is a sign of the times





    The town issued an official statement saying that “Dahlonega is a welcoming community for people of diverse backgrounds” and that “recent episodes are not indicative of a change in our character or philosophy.”

    The students called off the boycott and declared victory.

    And now it was a sunny afternoon on the town square.

    People were stopping by the candy shop, or wandering down the aisles of antique shops where Kenny G was playing through the speakers, or eating a sandwich across from the building where a KKK banner had been.

    “Yeah, it’s the site of one of the last major gold rushes,” a man standing on the square said to a woman, explaining what he knew about Dahlonega.

    “Do you have this in a large?” a woman asked at a T-shirt shop.

    Reverend Webb, home this afternoon, said he was heartened to see how so many people had taken a stand. “Dahlonega is a sacred place for everybody,” he said.

    At the same time, he said, the episode was not simply about the banner. To him, it was about a banner that had appeared after an election in which the new president had said certain things that had appealed to white nationalists and other hatemongers, whether he intended to or not, opening the door to events that could spiral out of control.

    “The atmosphere he’s created in America today has caused people to think they have some kind of power again,” he said. “I thought that before, and I still do.”

    Doles [white supremicist], who was out driving in his truck, said he agreed with this assessment. He had been on the way home from the gym when he first saw the banner and the flags, he said, and thought to himself, “It’s been a long time coming.” He said he had recently raised his own flag for the first time in years — the American one, because he finally feels pleased with the direction of the country.

    “In the last 50 years, I didn’t think we had the votes to elect a governor, much less a president,” Doles said. “And yet here we are today.”
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)
  • Reynard38
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 12533

    #2
    Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

    I'm confused, is the banner being put up, or taken down?
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

    Comment

    • SKIP KILPATRICK
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2013
      • 13573

      #3
      Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

      Taken down
      Skip

      ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
      ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

      Comment

      • David G
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2003
        • 89687

        #4
        Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

        Originally posted by Reynard38
        I'm confused, is the banner being put up, or taken down?
        As always... reading the story helps a lot with comprehension...
        David G
        Harbor Woodworks
        https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

        "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

        Comment

        • Reynard38
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2009
          • 12533

          #5
          Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

          Originally posted by David G
          As always... reading the story helps a lot with comprehension...

          Yes it does.
          Didnt have time toread it initially, but just did.
          First off I'm more proud of my fellow Georgians and their response to this than I am embarrassed by some pickup driving juicehead and his small band of followers.
          Dahlonega is not the sort of place you'd expect to see such a banner. It's a college town. Some great little eateries. In the surrounding hills are vineyards and winery's.
          But not too long ago it wasn't this way.The North Georgia mountains are very white, almost as white as Maine. They didn't support the plantation style of agriculture so slaves were not brought in in large numbers. The European immigrants were mostly Scots Irish as opposed to English in the southern and coastal parts of the state. Very independent and not accepting of outsiders.

          There still is to this day a small minority that cling to the old thinking. Some left the counties south of Dahlonega trying to escape the gentrification that a sprawling Atlanta has unleashed. Forsyth county mentioned in the article was really not a place you wanted to be after dark if you even had a good tan back in the 1980's. Today its a county of million dollar homes and Starbucks. The trailer parks are leaving along with their residents that tended toward the old way of thinking. They've headed north. Now Lumpkin county that contains Dahlonega is changing too, and the old guard once again feel threatened. Trump gave them a ray of hope, but it won't last. $$ is the great equalizer. Rising property values for the beautiful mountain vistas will once again clean the slate. It'll just take some time.
          Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

          Comment

          • Phillip Allen
            new member
            • May 2002
            • 63618

            #6
            Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

            Originally posted by Reynard38
            Yes it does.
            Didnt have time toread it initially, but just did.
            First off I'm more proud of my fellow Georgians and their response to this than I am embarrassed by some pickup driving juicehead and his small band of followers.
            Dahlonega is not the sort of place you'd expect to see such a banner. It's a college town. Some great little eateries. In the surrounding hills are vineyards and winery's.
            But not too long ago it wasn't this way.The North Georgia mountains are very white, almost as white as Maine. They didn't support the plantation style of agriculture so slaves were not brought in in large numbers. The European immigrants were mostly Scots Irish as opposed to English in the southern and coastal parts of the state. Very independent and not accepting of outsiders.

            There still is to this day a small minority that cling to the old thinking. Some left the counties south of Dahlonega trying to escape the gentrification that a sprawling Atlanta has unleashed. Forsyth county mentioned in the article was really not a place you wanted to be after dark if you even had a good tan back in the 1980's. Today its a county of million dollar homes and Starbucks. The trailer parks are leaving along with their residents that tended toward the old way of thinking. They've headed north. Now Lumpkin county that contains Dahlonega is changing too, and the old guard once again feel threatened. Trump gave them a ray of hope, but it won't last. $$ is the great equalizer. Rising property values for the beautiful mountain vistas will once again clean the slate. It'll just take some time.
            poor people are not up to 'our' standards
            The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
            Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

            Comment

            • John of Phoenix
              Senior Member
              • Jun 2001
              • 31214

              #7
              Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

              ...back in the 1980's.

              It'll just take some time.
              How much?

              Comment

              • David G
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2003
                • 89687

                #8
                Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

                Originally posted by Dave Wright
                David G., it's upsetting and it's disheartening. We're seeing it because to some degree the Trump phenomena "legitimizes" it, but we're also seeing it because reaction to the Trump phenomena has drawn increasing attention to it.

                It's difficult to ascertain people's true feelings on race relations.
                As I said - it's complicated.
                David G
                Harbor Woodworks
                https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

                "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

                Comment

                • Canoeyawl
                  .
                  • Jun 2003
                  • 37698

                  #9
                  Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

                  Originally posted by Phillip Allen
                  poor people are not up to 'our' standards
                  Exactly...

                  Comment

                  • David G
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2003
                    • 89687

                    #10
                    Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

                    Originally posted by Canoeyawl
                    Exactly...
                    Actually... I don't think so.

                    Poor isn't the driving factor. Hateful is. One can be poor without being hateful. But, to be fair, being poor makes one more susceptible to a variety of maladies.
                    David G
                    Harbor Woodworks
                    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

                    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

                    Comment

                    • David G
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 89687

                      #11
                      Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

                      Originally posted by Dave Wright
                      Just how complicated is it? Are you looking for complications that are not borne out by the general trend?

                      Look at the graph for white responses between 1995 and 1997. The increase in the slope is dramatic. White "approval" went from 45% to 61% and exceeded black "approval" of 68% to 77%. Do you have any thoughts on this? The mega national drama of 1995 was O.J.'s trial and acquittal. According to surveys blacks were generally pleased; large numbers of whites were dismayed by the verdict. The white wife was killed by the black husband, playing into all sorts of stereotypical myths, yet approval of interracial marriage by whites went up more than ever.

                      Was this a survey error, a mistake? Were respondents lying? Something else? What do you think?

                      How about the 2003 to 2004 approval jump by whites? Can you think of anything happening then?

                      Bubba might be reluctant to say the socially unacceptable "I hate those people," but I contend that if he's truly a bigot, that he doesn't have as much reluctance to voice his disapproval of mixed marriage. Just look at the percentages of replies, and look at them for the various age groups. I see an optimistic trend, you see complications. So I ask you, why is that?
                      How complicated is it? I'm not sure one could answer that except by writing a research paper... or with one word: enough.

                      Any thoughts? Yup: it's complicated.

                      But I'm confused by both of your posts. I get the impression that you - on little to no basis - have me taking a position that I'm not. And that you disagree with that position. Perhaps before arguing against that position, you should state what you hear me saying and confirm that you heard me correctly. You mentioned a prior thread 'abandoned'. I didn't give up on the thread, just gave up, after several attempts, efforts to get across to you what I was saying. You were the only only with the misapprehension... but seemed quite attached to it. Your comments here are shaping up the same way.
                      David G
                      Harbor Woodworks
                      https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

                      "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

                      Comment

                      • Reynard38
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 12533

                        #12
                        Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

                        Originally posted by Phillip Allen
                        poor people are not up to 'our' standards
                        Yeah, well those poor people put Trump in office so......
                        Just because you are poor doesn't mean you have to be stupid or gullible. Instead many of them chose to blame somebody (usually that doesn't look like them) for their lot in life.

                        And the old £itch that put the banner up in the first place isn't poor. She owns a good chunk of the town. What's sadly ironic is that she owns businesses there, and wants to start a hotel. Both of which require people with disposable income.
                        How celebrating the klan helps her cause is a bit of a riddle. It'll run the people off that have the $$.
                        Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

                        Comment

                        • David G
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2003
                          • 89687

                          #13
                          Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

                          Dave,

                          Yes, it appears you have misread my overall stance on such matters.

                          For me... the Forsetti piece was a piece of sociology, with some analysis I regard as accurate. I qualified it from the very beginning as being a bit over the top - which I mentally put down to his likely having suffered some emotional trauma in that setting, which he hadn't gotten over. I wasn't endorsing his angst, hyperbole, and negativity, just the facts behind it - while making allowances for his trauma.

                          As for this one - my only point was: it's complicated. As in - not susceptible to easy answers and facile commentary. But that this was one more example of that racist faction (however small they may be) feeling emboldened.

                          Perhaps what you are interpreting as pessimism is my contention that we have - in the U.S. and beyond - failed to do the regulation of capitalists that capitalism requires to function in a productive way. I have been making that argument for many years. Including writing it here since 2008. And arguing that we needed a correction. A re-assertion of regulation, if we wanted to avoid trouble. The longer we waited, the worst the trouble. And so it has come to pass. We have waited far too long, and show few signs of doing what is necessary. Most of what I imagine you perceive as negativity is me posting examples of the consequences of that failure.



                          But I remain, overall, optimistic. I think that the institutions in place will - eventually, grindingly, creakily - wheel into position, and stop the demagogues. Until they do, though, I shall continue to point out the fallout, and call out for a correction. It really IS threatening to be an existential issue here. If people would rather not be reminded of that... if they'd prefer to keep up a happy front and ignore the increasing examples of dysfunction... maybe they should steer clear of my posts.
                          David G
                          Harbor Woodworks
                          https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

                          "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

                          Comment

                          • webishop14
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2015
                            • 3534

                            #14
                            Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

                            Poor isn't the driving factor. Hateful is. One can be poor without being hateful. But, to be fair, being poor makes one more susceptible to a variety of maladies.
                            Yeah, well those poor people put Trump in office so......
                            Just because you are poor doesn't mean you have to be stupid or gullible. Instead many of them chose to blame somebody (usually that doesn't look like them) for their lot in life.
                            As I've noted elsewhere on the forum, I've come to believe that long-term poverty is not just a matter of not having enough money. It's a cultural phenomenon in our country. Compare the folks in this country whom we think of as "poor" with the "poor" of, say, Brazil, who live in the favelas with only a cardboard carton to call a home.

                            As Reynard38 points out, a significant subset of our "poor" will vote against their best interests if they believe that those they consider inferior to themselves will suffer more than they. In Ukraine, they tell the joke (on themselves) that given a bushel of apples, a Pole would set up alongside the road to sell them, where a Ukrainian would take a bite from each apple in the bushel, that no one else might benefit from them.

                            I think what we're looking at here is a cultural divide in this country that is only now coming to light. I voted for Obama in 2008 in part because I thought that he might stimulate the race riot that was simmering in this country. Obama was the catalyst for this, and Trump merely represents the lid of the pressure cooker passing through the kitchen ceiling. It's coming along nicely, now.
                            “Aren’t you supposed to be the gentlemen who lie for the good of their country?”
                            “That’s diplomats. We’re not gentlemen.”
                            “So you lie to save your hides.”
                            That’s politicians. Different game entirely.”

                            Comment

                            • Reynard38
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 12533

                              #15
                              Re: Georgia KKK sign: it's complicated

                              Originally posted by webishop14
                              I think what we're looking at here is a cultural divide in this country that is only now coming to light. I voted for Obama in 2008 in part because I thought that he might stimulate the race riot that was simmering in this country. Obama was the catalyst for this, and Trump merely represents the lid of the pressure cooker passing through the kitchen ceiling. It's coming along nicely, now.
                              Channeling that great philosopher George Carlin. I love it!
                              Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

                              Comment

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