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Thread: Hawaii micro cruiser?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    Dave Wright brings up a very good point....and that is, "what's to leeward"?

    On the leeward side of the islands you can get some decent breeze and the swell is relatively small. That's fun sailing and if something breaks you have many hours before you get out of the wind/wave shadow of the island, so as long as you have a radio or something, you can get rescued.
    On the windward side you get a LOT of breeze and bluidy enormous swells, which often break, and that's seriously challenging. However, if something breaks, you'll wind up onshore...somewhere. Hopefully there will be sand and not 100 foot tall lava cliffs, hopefully it won't be on some ginormous surf break but at least there's a chance of fetching up on sand.

    However, when you go between the islands, if something goes wrong, it's 2,000 miles to the next land. That's a bluidy long way. Our man is going to be awfully hungry and thirsty...read "dead" before he finds the next hard stuff. ANY 16 footer has a significant chance of a *big* knockdown or worse out there. Bust the mast and you're screwed. Screwed could pretty easily mean dead.

    Sail Scamp or a CS 17 around the leeward side of the islands all day long, you bet. Take Scamp or a CS 17 outside Kaneohe Bay and poop around in the ocean swells...well, I wouldn't do it, but it's not completelyh beyond the realm of sanity. Take Scamp or a CS 17 from Honolulu to Maui on anything but a flat calm day? No. Just No.

    Need more information.
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    I have a suggestion to the OP. Find a friend with a small sailboat...Say, something in the 20-25 foot range. Sail it from Honolulu to Maui on a reasonably windy day. Maybe head down to Molokai, too. Then sail home. After you've done that, THEN think about a "micro-cruiser".
    CLC Skerry = "Vingilothiel"

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    The only perfect micro cruiser is one that covers the needs of one persons individuals requirements, but you knew that. Is the lack of a backstay on the Fisher micro your main concern to the rig staying onboard? Given how many dinghy classes have a similar rig and probably capsize on a more regular basis, i would have thought it was good enough, maybe add some dyneema running backstays for tough conditions as an option?
    And to make the point about every need being different within a micro size, i would need an inside steering position to keep out of the icy wind, snow and sleet, as not enough room in a micro to hang up and dry a 3 layer oilskin system, but i suppose a good drysuit is an option. Horses for courses.
    Look forward to seeing what you come up with.
    The lack of back-staying as shown on Paul fisher’s 4M ‘miniyacht’ design, could probably be made good by following your suggestions – that is if I could see myself happily spending a week down below in that boat. But changes to the rig or deck would not achieve anything but compromise the design’s purpose, unless it was a case of to some measure mimmicking Acrohc Australis (the 12 footer built and sailed by Serge Testa.
    Spending time in a drysuit might just be the better way to face the elements and rather live in the cockpit most of the time. This requires a certain state of mind and fortitude, rather than any clever design………as you say, there are dinghy classes that capsize on a regular basis and are righted, to carry on sailing.

    When limited boat size uses mobile body weight as ballast, then anything from a big sailboard with lockers, to a dinghy, might be fine for island hopping in the tropics.

    I did get to speak briefly with my friend yesterday, and was reminded that ability is invariably the decider on success or not.

    He did predictably suggest that I think of building a Bolger 16ft Micro………..which is the same as Woxbox says.
    For me though, the Bolger Micro would just be slower boat than a Selway Fisher 4M mini yacht with a daggerboard type keel, and would be a fair bit heavier to handle when trailering and launching. This advice did help to bolster my thoughts on going ahead with finishing the 1/10 scale model, then doing drawings and keeping the marine ply to use on a Pahi that I could build in the 6x3M space of my garage.

    Hindsight being what it is, I now realize that I could have saved on twenty years of effort getting set up in a bigger workshop, and built a plywood Pahi inside a shipping container back in the 1980’s. But of course the knowledge to do so was not available back then.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    Good post, and that's why Etng needs to tell us more about himself. If he's a skilled waterman with lot's of experience, or a 35 year old, healthy ex-coast guard rescue swimmer, then there's more chance of success. We don't know if the 16 foot limit applies only to the building situation, or to storage considerations too.

    I suggested one of Gary Dierkings outriggers as a first step / trial balloon for this adventure - day use only. The 8 foot long hull sections of the Wa'apa could be built in the 16 foot space. The final boat could be 16 feet long or even 24 feet long, yet still be built or stored in 16 feet. Plus an easy building experience to see whether building is really that much fun.

    Using such a boat on Oahu could be logistically easy. For example, there's a free black top launch ramp on the south end of Kailua beach, at the entrance to Lani Kai. You wouldn't need the blacktop, but you can drive right down to the water's edge on the sand and drop the hulls off on the beach there. On week days there's ample free parking in the lot just a couple of hundred yards up from there. More parking in front of the beach bathrooms/showers early any day, including weekends. Once assembled and launched, you can reach back and forth for over two miles, inside the reef, in a beatiful bay, and with strong onshore winds. Mess up and you'll be blown ashore in comparative safety. There's even a lifeguard at Kailua Beach Park.

    Feeling more adventurous, you can venture outside the reef and reach back and forth between the Mokes and Mokumanu off Kaneohe, with all the wind and waves you could ever want. You can venture further north or south, all the while evaluating how much boat you need and whether this is your cup of tea.
    I could see how Kailua could be a good place to train for island hopping. As you say, all the wind you could ever want right up to the beach, and waves too not far from shore.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    I could see how Kailua could be a good place to train for island hopping. As you say, all the wind you could ever want right up to the beach, and waves too not far from shore.

    We go there very often, Kailua and LaniKai are my favorite beaches, but I'm 70 now and no longer windsurf thanks to aging and general degeneration. I always feel like a grinch when I comment on threads about sailing / cruising in very small boats for days in tough conditions. I raced for many years as a youngster; races were never cancelled for bad weather. For me, it really didn't take long for reality to set in, other people have different realities I guess, and that's OK. At least you don't get wet and nothing breaks talking about it.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    We go there very often, Kailua and LaniKai are my favorite beaches, but I'm 70 now and no longer windsurf thanks to aging and general degeneration. I always feel like a grinch when I comment on threads about sailing / cruising in very small boats for days in tough conditions. I raced for many years as a youngster; races were never cancelled for bad weather. For me, it really didn't take long for reality to set in, other people have different realities I guess, and that's OK. At least you don't get wet and nothing breaks talking about it.
    Personally, I have never, nor will ever, sail a small boat in rough conditions, that is rough enough to make me seriously worry about the outcome, even for hours, let alone days. I would likely die of exhaustion and/or sickness if the coast guard didn't get to me fairly quickly and save my sorry neck, assuming I hadn't already died of fright. Over the years I have noticed there are usually people who are happy to see someone else try these things in (unsuitable) small boats, as long as it's not themselves doing it, no offence to some of the posters here. Especially, I am not keen on the idea of being ten or twenty or more miles from land clinging to the keel of an upside down boat, trying desperately to get it upright while thrashing about in conditions bad enough to cause a capsize in the first place. But like you say, for others it may be different. We did kayak over to Moku Nui once
    Last edited by JimD; 03-13-2017 at 05:20 PM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    Quote Originally Posted by Train View Post
    Pretty boat. Large dory? Folkboat?
    from John Gardners book Traditional Boats to Build and Use, sailing Banks Dory, Centennial.



    I have actually built this hull once before but to 18' rather than 20, and left it open for rowing and sailing with a simple sprit rig...

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    I believe that's height above the settee so its sitting headroom, which will acommodate a tall person well.
    Oh, I thought it might be headroom from cabin sole to cabin top. If that's the case, the settee being 12" off the floor, with a 3" cushion, 3'10" headroom would be tight, but I would fit. A taller person would have to duck while sitting. I should find out for sure whether it's cabin sole to cabin top, or whether it's settee to cabin top. Makes a pretty big difference when looking at plans. Thanks.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    Quote Originally Posted by Etng View Post
    My plan is to sail from Oahu to Molokai, Molokai to Maui, Maui to the Big Island and if all goes well try Oahu to Kauai
    We used to do those windward legs at night for a tad less wild wind and waves. But then you get more rain and it is hard to figure out all the towed barge traffic with their seemingly penlight nav beacons. The channels between islands funnels the wind and sometimes you can see that on Molokai doppler radar views where the tormented spray appears like rain. Here is a forecast of interisland funnel speeds http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/MET/Faculty/wrf/arw/arw_6km_loop_10mw.html

    Oahu to SW Lanai is a good run with surprising cliffs on that leeward side and amazing uncrowded snorkeling a bit further. If you instead point higher between Lanai and Molokai, there can be a funnel there and north shore of Lanai is called shipwreck beach for a reason. I have always wanted to see highest sea cliffs of Molokai north shore, but I think better done on a downwind leg. Build a strong rudder; my handle comes from breaking one on one of those legs when I had a ripe hernia.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    The Alenuihaha is not a laughing matter.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    Quote Originally Posted by Train View Post
    Oh, I thought it might be headroom from cabin sole to cabin top. If that's the case, the settee being 12" off the floor, with a 3" cushion, 3'10" headroom would be tight, but I would fit. A taller person would have to duck while sitting. I should find out for sure whether it's cabin sole to cabin top, or whether it's settee to cabin top. Makes a pretty big difference when looking at plans. Thanks.
    You may be right about the headroom. I can't remember and haven't looked at the study plans in years. I'm not tall either but it seems to me I decided I would just fit. This would be nice, but of course if it went over you'd be done.

    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    Not that I'm trying to give you any ideas http://www.digitalmarketingusa.com/tinkerbelle2.html

    Last edited by JimD; 03-15-2017 at 05:03 PM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    Personally, I have never, nor will ever, sail a small boat in rough conditions, that is rough enough to make me seriously worry about the outcome, even for hours, let alone days. I would likely die of exhaustion and/or sickness if the coast guard didn't get to me fairly quickly and save my sorry neck, assuming I hadn't already died of fright. Over the years I have noticed there are usually people who are happy to see someone else try these things in (unsuitable) small boats, as long as it's not themselves doing it, no offence to some of the posters here. Especially, I am not keen on the idea of being ten or twenty or more miles from land clinging to the keel of an upside down boat, trying desperately to get it upright while thrashing about in conditions bad enough to cause a capsize in the first place. But like you say, for others it may be different. We did kayak over to Moku Nui once

    I feel that way too, mainly because it's so uncomfortable to be soaking wet, bouncing and pitching in every direction, and knowing that no matter how strong the wind is, it can always get stronger.

    But, in the interest of fairness to the original poster (he / she hasn't returned), and to recognise that one can do almost anything that they want, if they want to, here's a blog. This person sailed from Hilo to Kauai in a home built 13' - 10" Paradox sailboat. A lot of time in a very small space, but he seems happy, competent, and has sailed the same boat all over in other areas too:

    https://daveskaife.wordpress.com/2014/06/



  14. #49
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    Default Re: Hawaii micro cruiser?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    ...This person sailed from Hilo to Kauai in a home built 13' - 10" Paradox sailboat. A lot of time in a very small space, but he seems happy, competent, and has sailed the same boat all over in other areas too:

    https://daveskaife.wordpress.com/2014/06/

    Those Matt Layden designs have always fascinated me. So small, simple, and yet apparently very capable.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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