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Thread: Marine Paint vs House Paint

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by johngsandusky View Post
    I've used the same on solid wood with good results.
    Nothing wrong with the upper end of the Benj. Moore line. I'd consider them if I didn't already have a decades-old relationship with a couple other suppliers: Sherwin-Williams Industrial, and a regional outfit called Miller Paint.
    David G
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    I note that most if not all of the respondents to this thread are located in the Upper Midwest, NE ot NW where the sun is not as intense as in the South. Has anybody tried this (house paint vs marine paint) in the South Carolina or Florida sun? The sun eats everything!

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    I find BM Aura, for instance, so damn expensive, I'm actually painting my house with Kirby's this summer. So, I'm going the other way -> boat paint for the house!

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Not as far south as South Carolina, but I've had good luck with latex porch and deck paint on several boats.

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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    I wonder if latex paint has improved a lot in the last, oh, I don't know, ten years or so? I use it almost exclusively now in the house, cabinets, etc (other than urethane, which I spend big $$ on from Fine Paints of Europe) and in the olden days it used to sand like a rubber innertube. The newer stuff SEEMS to prep a lot like oil--like, you can feather out the edges. Am I hallucinating? It also seems to level out really nicely, like the original Ben. Moore Satin Impervo, even when brushed on. And damned if I can notice a whole lot of difference between California Paints and Benjamin Moore or Behr. It's all very cofusing, since I used to own a painting and restoration company and we used exclusively Benjamin Moore oils (except on walls) and sometimes Pratt and Lambert for floors in a pinch (oil) and there was a very noticeable difference between brands.

    I have some latex Behr Porch and Floor stuff that's, I don't know, what's the word--excellent? Super high pigment, levels out, works well.

    Been spraying a fair bit of B. Moore Kitchen and Bath and it's actually not as nice as the California Paints stuff sprayed, which is supposedly cheaper paint.

    Cant make a bit of sense of any of it!

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    It's worth noting that the marine environment is a lot harder on paint than the environment is on houses. Houses have primarily vertical surfaces which get less direct UV exposure and are less susceptible to chafe and nicks and dings. Most significantly, houses aren't exposed to reflected UV, as are boats, and especially their topsides, when the sunlight reflects up from the water and down from the sky simultaneously all day long. "Marine enamel" isn't really all that different than any other paint, it's just made better and, consequently, costs more. You do get what you pay for.
    Wisdom's a cool thing. Thanks.

    If your boat will be in a slip or on a mooring on saltwater, the best quality specialised marine paint is a good investment.

    My skiff rests on a trailer, under cover, and is sailed in freshwater at most two days each week. I bought high-quality porch and deck paint at the local shop and ten years on, it hasn't checked or worn a bit.

    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Aric...I'm interested to see how Latex works out down here myself as I'm in Mt Pleasant. I painted my LYS with Valspar Porch and Deck. But prob not the best test since she sits on a trailer in my garage when not in use.

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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    You get what you pay for, theres a reason that marine coatings exist. If you have a cheapish boat, then who cares what you put on it. But once you start getting up in value, length etc then there is a false economy in slap dash jobs that require seasonal work. Latex paints have a place but you cannot beat LPU's for longevity, durability, colour retention, abrasion resistance. latex=1 LPU=10 and there's everything in between. Some people love latex paints, personally I would never use them on a boat.
    whatever rocks your boat

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    I spoke to a paint guy about paint for my interior, i'd picked out an oil based gloss enamel. (Oil based primer already applied).
    He looked at it and said the word 'Enamel?'. Said I should put it back and get a waterbased equivalent. I bought the oil based.

    The next day i was talking to another paint guy in his shop.
    I'm hoping to use a single brand, primer/topcoat (Norglass) marine paint. They have a 2 pack topcoat and a single pack. I asked about the single pack and the guy said 'Enamel?', and then gave me the number for the rep.

    Whats wrong with enamel?
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    I painted my 14' stitch and glue fishing boat with latex exterior house paint twenty years ago and it's held up fine. Just repainted it with the same stuff last year. But, it's just a fishing boat not meant to be a beauty queen. All my other boats, I used oil based. My last boat, fiberglass over cedar, I painted with Rustoleum marine paint purchased on Amazon.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Latex paint does need a good long time to dry--like, two weeks or so--in my experience. But it's great for a trailer-sailed small boat stored indoors for the winter. Not sure why enamel paint would be a problem; I've used latex porch & floor enamel on my boats.

    Tom
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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Latex paint does need a good long time to dry--like, two weeks or so--in my experience.

    Tom
    I don’t get that. Not my purpose here to convince anyone to use latex, but I’ve used Behr Ultra-White latex house paint from Home Depot on Snoose’s hull topsides for 15 years and it always dries hard in a couple of hours.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    outdoors on a dry day, especially with sun, the stuff dries in a few minutes. I recently restored a door in my house, in the shop, and it took a week or more for each side of the door to properly dry, and even then it was still sort of soft and fragile. Satin Impervo latex on the inside, Behr porch and floor on the outside, and neither of them wanted to dry. It was a VERY high humidity summer around here. So I was disabused of the notion of "instant drying" of latex. Learn somethin' new every day. Also sprayed a whole bunch of wooden shutters with Ben Moor Moorglo and same thing--took many days before I could handle them without paint damage.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    There are two conversations going on. One discusses what a durable small boat finish might be while the other is a point of view regarding best practices as bears on yacht maintenance. I have more experience with the later. The applications and aspirations will drive the decisions. I like marine paint because it helps achieve the results I'm looking for.

    The cost in labor of painting a bigger boat to a certain standard makes the price of the materials somewhat irrelevant, the more so if a fine finish is desired. Once you cross a certain line painting a boat can enter another dimension. Good painters can put a near flawless coat of paint on a 50 foot boat in four hours of actual painting time. Getting to the point where that coat can be applied can take a week of long days and intense labor...or more. even on a boat in good condition. It's true that if you haul for paint you're also going to tend to a few other things while she's out of the water but you'd better plan on a week, and that's with a willing and able friend or wife to help out once in a while. Generally, the friend is more useful.

    For Rita I liked Easypoxy or Brightside with a mild preference for Easypoxy. Paint for two coats is six quarts, gallon and a half or $140. Primer and solvents can add another $140 to that, so all the paint might be $300. Of course, there's sandpaper, tack cloths, thinner for cleaning brushes, masking tape, disposable brushes and rollers for the bottom, pails, rags, fillers, rollers, filters and what all have I missed?

    So if you're out for paint, you might as well use the best products and techniques you can because you want to go as long as possible between jobs. Even a year makes a difference. If you're not too fussy, it's certainly easier but there is some cost and craft in the fussiness that some people want or admire.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    What Lew just said. It's really very simple. If you took your boat to the best "gold plater" yard around and asked them to give it their best paint job, they wouldn't use water-based paint from Home Depot and six months or a year later, it wouldn't look like it was painted with water-based paint from Home Depot. If you had a car that you cared about as much as you care about your boat, you wouldn't think of painting it with latex paint from the Big Box store. Would you?

    It really boils down to an owner's personal standards of quality and craftsmanship. A lot of products out there, especially paints, are specifically formulated and advertised for the "DIY" market. Like everything else, they "dumb it down" so that it is as close to "idiot proof" as they can make it. There's a cost to that in quality, longevity, and price. If you are satisfied with whatever you use, that's good enough for you. However, if you are disappointed with it down the road, you will know why. Not every boat needs to be finished like a Steinway, but if you ask professional boat painters how they get the results you desire, I think you'll find very few are going to advise you use latex paint. On the other hand, if you ask the guy at the hardware or even the paint store, and you don't look like a professional painter (who wouldn't be asking the question in the first place,) he'll likely advise water-based paint because he doesn't want customers who don't know what they are doing coming back and complaining after they've mucked up the job using expensive oil-based paint that takes more skill to condition and apply.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterduncan View Post
    I recently read that regular exterior house paint works just as well as the specialized marine hull paints even though it can be a quarter of the price. Will someone please compare and contrast the differences between the two lines. Can I use house paint on a boat that will only be used in fresh water?
    It's been a year and a half since this post - what paint did you choose and how satisfied have you been?

    Jamie

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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    I hesitated to post on this, just wanted to comment on the drying time. I agree with Lew and Bob on the quality issues. As I’ve stated several times on other threads, Snoose was ALL latex paint when I bought her. But I’ve been gradually converting it all to oil based enamel mainly because of the lack of gloss achievable with latex. However, the hull topsides are still latex and it is very durable and easy to maintain. Someday when I want more gloss, I may wood it and start over with oil based. Just haven’t seen the need for that yet.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by George Ray View Post
    a very effective cheap version of life extension is painting with anti-freeze (ethylene glycol) as a pre-prime preservative, it is very helpful. Plywood endgrain is a particularly good place to use it. (see: Dave Carnell a forumite who transitioned to the non-physical, http://www.simplicityboats.com/chemorot.html, tom Colvin was also a big fan of antifreeze as a prepaint wood preservative )
    Also interesting was the boric acid treatment of raw plywood endgrain mentioned in that link, because I have that roach killer on hand. But is rot-killing needed as much as firmly sealing the delam threat of water intrusion?

    I have been delaying cutting a plywood mast step for relocation until I have to mix up my batch of epoxy for a shower tile recoat anyway. But this thread has inspired me to stop waiting years to cure excess weather helm, and try throwing lots of leftover latex or enamel on sawed open endgrain of that step!

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    What Lew just said. It's really very simple. If you took your boat to the best "gold plater" yard around and asked them to give it their best paint job, they wouldn't use water-based paint from Home Depot and six months or a year later, it wouldn't look like it was painted with water-based paint from Home Depot. If you had a car that you cared about as much as you care about your boat, you wouldn't think of painting it with latex paint from the Big Box store. Would you?

    It really boils down to an owner's personal standards of quality and craftsmanship. A lot of products out there, especially paints, are specifically formulated and advertised for the "DIY" market. Like everything else, they "dumb it down" so that it is as close to "idiot proof" as they can make it. There's a cost to that in quality, longevity, and price. If you are satisfied with whatever you use, that's good enough for you. However, if you are disappointed with it down the road, you will know why. Not every boat needs to be finished like a Steinway, but if you ask professional boat painters how they get the results you desire, I think you'll find very few are going to advise you use latex paint. On the other hand, if you ask the guy at the hardware or even the paint store, and you don't look like a professional painter (who wouldn't be asking the question in the first place,) he'll likely advise water-based paint because he doesn't want customers who don't know what they are doing coming back and complaining after they've mucked up the job using expensive oil-based paint that takes more skill to condition and apply.
    Eh, that's not what Lew just said. He said expensive paints make sense for big boats where cost of materials is low compared to cost of labor, and you want to go as long as possible between repainting sessions.

    For small boats that get used--and don't intend to win "Best of Show" awards anywhere--and aren't aiming for a high-gloss finish (which I personally think is far too "yachty" for a cruising small boat anyway)--well, then latex porch and floor enamel can be extremely successful. AND cheap. And low-fuss.

    Your implication that anyone who doesn't use the most expensive oil-based paints for their boat is an "idiot" and needs things "dumbed down" is pretty ignorant. This boat:

    DSCN3256.jpg

    was painted with latex porch and floor enamel in 2011 before launching. It has since sailed over 2,000 miles on the Great Lakes, the Texas coast, the Florida coast and Keys, and elsewhere and has not needed to be repainted. At all. That's a 2017 photo above. It's certainly "good enough" for me. At a fraction of the cost and labor that expensive "gold plater" paint would have demanded.

    If you want to use the best, then go ahead. For big boats, as Lew says, it probably makes good sense. But for small boats that live on a trailer, it's overkill--unless you really want that high-gloss, "Best in Show" look.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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  20. #55
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    This might be useful for a reference.
    It's about painting a boot stripe but gives a review of some paint products.

    https://www.bottompaintstore.com/blo...a-boot-stripe/
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Eh, that's not what Lew just said. He said expensive paints make sense for big boats where cost of materials is low compared to cost of labor, and you want to go as long as possible between repainting sessions.

    For small boats that get used--and don't intend to win "Best of Show" awards anywhere--and aren't aiming for a high-gloss finish (which I personally think is far too "yachty" for a cruising small boat anyway)--well, then latex porch and floor enamel can be extremely successful. AND cheap. And low-fuss.

    Your implication that anyone who doesn't use the most expensive oil-based paints for their boat is an "idiot" and needs things "dumbed down" is pretty ignorant. Tom
    Nope, I never said that. Neither did I even imply that "anyone who doesn't use the most expensive oil-based paints for their boat is an "idiot" and needs things "dumbed down""

    I said the paint manufacturers "dumb down" their products aimed at the DIY market because they realize that people who don't know what they are doing are likely to complain about the consequent poor results when they use oil-based paints that require knowledge and experience to apply correctly and successfully. They "dumb down" water-based paints in the sense that they are easier to apply (which they advertise widely) by inexperienced DIYers, but that comes at a cost in quality and results.

    All that might be implied by somebody's using anything less than the "most expensive oil-based paints for their boat" is that for whatever reason they believed that was good enough for the circumstances, which may well be entirely justified, depending upon the circumstances. I believe an answer to a question about painting boats is properly answered by a response based upon "best practices in the industry." If somebody wants to know how to do something as cheaply and quickly and with the least work possible, that makes "what paint should I use" a question that only they themselves alone can answer because it depends solely upon the standards they have set for themselves, as your post amply illustrates. Nobody really cares if a job is "good enough" for somebody else unless you're paying them to do it for you.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Most of the boats I see in this thread are skiffs and dinghys. You guys are talking about a pint of paint. So by using a latex or acrylic you save 15 bucks. I repaint my 33 footer every year with Petit Easypoxy. The paint costs $35 or so. I spend more than that on masking tape and sand paper. Sure I could save $20 if I went with acrylic, but I would not get the yacht finish I want. Basically you guys who are talking about saving money for these small boats are really talking about saving the cost of a six pack or bottle of cheap wine.

    classic_yacht_islesford.jpg

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd D View Post
    Most of the boats I see in this thread are skiffs and dinghys. You guys are talking about a pint of paint. So by using a latex or acrylic you save 15 bucks. I repaint my 33 footer every year with Petit Easypoxy. The paint costs $35 or so. I spend more than that on masking tape and sand paper. Sure I could save $20 if I went with acrylic, but I would not get the yacht finish I want. Basically you guys who are talking about saving money for these small boats are really talking about saving the cost of a six pack or bottle of cheap wine.
    Really good point. The boys here think they are wise to avoid marine paint because "that's like what "yachtsmen" use." If the can says "house paint" on the can it is formulated for use on houses. Using it on a boat will save only a tiny amount of money. Also, good point about sandpaper, masking tape and the rest. Would not be surprised if these typically cost more than paint. Yet nobody wants to buy cheap sandpaper.

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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    when i did my 2 Mini MouseBoat builds one of my hidden agendas was to see if i could produce a viable product w/o any of the typical HAZ MAT issues normally associated w/ modern boat building

    using the water based ( ¿ latex ? ) paint was part of what was going thru my mind

    and you're correct when stating there is little $$ difference when building small boats

    one major difference/benefit is when the unfriendly fumes are eliminated :-)

    and when there is no skin exposure potential :-))

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by swoody126 View Post
    when i did my 2 Mini MouseBoat builds one of my hidden agendas was to see if i could produce a viable product w/o any of the typical HAZ MAT issues normally associated w/ modern boat building

    using the water based ( ¿ latex ? ) paint was part of what was going thru my mind

    and you're correct when stating there is little $$ difference when building small boats

    one major difference/benefit is when the unfriendly fumes are eliminated :-)

    and when there is no skin exposure potential :-))

    sw
    Well, bless your heart! Fact is, though, that if you have problems with the "unfriendly fumes" and "skin exposure potential" encountered in traditional wooden boat building, you should seriously consider another hobby. Knitting is one which comes to mind, if you can handle the risks posed by knitting needles. Seriously, though, the odds of one getting sick, seriously injured, or dead are probably higher by several orders of magnitude sailing a boat than working on one.

    I'll also add that it is entirely possible to build an excellent traditionally built wooden boat without any risk of "unfriendly fumes" or "skin exposure potential" if you stick to tried and true materials like linseed oil, mineral spirits, gum turpentine, axle grease, wood, copper, bronze, iron, and lead. We never had to worry much about petrochemicals until they started building plastic boats... and wooden boats soaked in plastic resins.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    ToddD's post is what I was thinking. We've top coated our boat with easypoxy, and compared to the labour it's not a big cost. We also found it covered well and was easy to use. The risk of using an inferior product to save a few bucks isn't worth the risk.

    Has anybody used some solvent free linseed oil paint yet ? We've been using their raw / boiled linseed oil mixed with pinetar for some finishing and it is super easy to apply and looks great (to me). I've also become a fan of Le Tonk varnish compared to some of the more modern polyurethane ones.

    Mark

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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    Really good point. The boys here think they are wise to avoid marine paint because "that's like what "yachtsmen" use."
    Which "boys" are those? Not me.

    I think it's wise to avoid marine paint for my boat because it costs more and offers nothing that I need. And because I can't walk 4 blocks to my local hardware store and buy it off the shelf like I can with latex porch & floor enamel. Nor can I easily clean up after a painting job with water and soap if I use it. It ain't the money alone, it's the fuss that goes with it in so many ways.

    Meanwhile, some other "boys" here think it's wise to buy the best most expensive marine paints because that's what professional painters use. Even if a good latex enamel would protect their boat well enough that it can go 7+ years without so much as touching up a spot.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Which "boys" are those? Not me.

    I think it's wise to avoid marine paint for my boat because it costs more and offers nothing that I need. And because I can't walk 4 blocks to my local hardware store and buy it off the shelf like I can with latex porch & floor enamel. Nor can I easily clean up after a painting job with water and soap if I use it. It ain't the money alone, it's the fuss that goes with it in so many ways.

    Meanwhile, some other "boys" here think it's wise to buy the best most expensive marine paints because that's what professional painters use. Even if a good latex enamel would protect their boat well enough that it can go 7+ years without so much as touching up a spot.

    Tom
    In the late 70s our host magazine started featuring cold molded boats. At the time there was bit of discussion as to whether these boats where actually wooden boats. Now the same thing is happening with inexpensive boats. People want very cheap and quick to build boats. The needs and "philosophy" is quite different; it seems to me that all work be better served if there were separate reserved spaces for the respective adherents.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    I use Petit Easypoxy and Interlux Brightsides and I pretend that there is simply no paint available for under $100 per gallon so I don't have to cry myself to sleep.

    My sea uncle painted his troller with housepaint once as an experiment but it didn't last a season. The weather on the coast here is hard on paint, even in the summer. We haul and paint the bottom every year, the tuna much prefer fresh paint.

    For a skiff I have an old Walker Bay 8 footer. It's looking a bit ratty and I've often thought of painting it to clean it up. Any recommendations on a paint that will actually stick to a walker bay plastic skiff for any length of time?
    F/V No Quarter
    1973 Grand Banks 42 Troller

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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    In the late 70s our host magazine started featuring cold molded boats. At the time there was bit of discussion as to whether these boats where actually wooden boats. Now the same thing is happening with inexpensive boats. People want very cheap and quick to build boats. The needs and "philosophy" is quite different; it seems to me that all work be better served if there were separate reserved spaces for the respective adherents.
    I can understand that perspective. I can also understand the inherent irony in such a purist stance, as if wanting boats that were inexpensive and quick to build is some kind of recent trend.

    It also seems like a simplistic view to me to say that the only "real" wooden boats are carvel or (non-plywood) lapstrake. Yes, there are quick and dirty designs out there, like many of Bolger's, Jim Michalak's, etc. I've enjoyed some of them. They can be built cheaply and quickly, and don't demand a high degree of skill.

    Then there are more sophisticated boats that happen to use plywood and modern glues rather than traditional joinery: Iain Oughtred, my own Alaska beach cruiser, Paul Gartside, etc. This category demands more skill from the builder, and I see them as continuing the tradition of craftsmanship with other materials and techniques.

    As for separate spaces for "real" wooden boats--by which I'm guessing you mean carvel or lapstrake--with no modern techniques or materials allowed, we already have those spaces. They're called "museums."

    Tom
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    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris-on-the-Boat View Post
    I use Petit Easypoxy and Interlux Brightsides and I pretend that there is simply no paint available for under $100 per gallon so I don't have to cry myself to sleep.

    My sea uncle painted his troller with housepaint once as an experiment but it didn't last a season. The weather on the coast here is hard on paint, even in the summer. We haul and paint the bottom every year, the tuna much prefer fresh paint.

    For a skiff I have an old Walker Bay 8 footer. It's looking a bit ratty and I've often thought of painting it to clean it up. Any recommendations on a paint that will actually stick to a walker bay plastic skiff for any length of time?
    IIRC,I've used bleach,water and sunshine to clean a Walker Bay.
    It may have been a spray cleaner like Fantastik,but either way,the boat looked much better with the black crap gone.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

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    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    3,427

    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I can understand that perspective. I can also understand the inherent irony in such a purist stance, as if wanting boats that were inexpensive and quick to build is some kind of recent trend.

    It also seems like a simplistic view to me to say that the only "real" wooden boats are carvel or (non-plywood) lapstrake. Yes, there are quick and dirty designs out there, like many of Bolger's, Jim Michalak's, etc. I've enjoyed some of them. They can be built cheaply and quickly, and don't demand a high degree of skill.

    Then there are more sophisticated boats that happen to use plywood and modern glues rather than traditional joinery: Iain Oughtred, my own Alaska beach cruiser, Paul Gartside, etc. This category demands more skill from the builder, and I see them as continuing the tradition of craftsmanship with other materials and techniques.

    As for separate spaces for "real" wooden boats--by which I'm guessing you mean carvel or lapstrake--with no modern techniques or materials allowed, we already have those spaces. They're called "museums."

    Tom
    When I was working with John Gardner at Mystic Seaport, we used to discuss this a lot. We agreed that the fundamental problem with amateur traditional boatbuilding was access to materials and it still is. Many of his own designs like the modified LFH rowboat aka Green Machine were set up for plywood and indeed the one he built has planking of outdoor plywood and laminated frames. Indeed the frames were an experiment to see how few patterns needed to be made to frame the boat guide boat style.The seams were glued. It's deceptive because John used a solid piece for the sheerstrake, something that was pretty easy and that I've not seen in today's builds. I was never able to get John to do a materials list for his tradional plans that speced the raw material needed, the kind of thing you'd need to go to a lumber yard. This is really where the experience comes, as few amateur builders have a stack of cedar drying out.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  33. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Jaboticabal, São Paulo, Brazil
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterduncan View Post
    I recently read that regular exterior house paint works just as well as the specialized marine hull paints even though it can be a quarter of the price. Will someone please compare and contrast the differences between the two lines. Can I use house paint on a boat that will only be used in fresh water?
    Peterduncan, good morning. I am not a experienced sailor nor painter but recently made some research about the topic because of the Argie 15 sailboat I am building. This article was decisive for me to choose the latex paint, it starts with the statement "Warning this article contains material that may be offensive if you think painting is more fun than boating":

    http://simplicityboats.com/latexcarnel.html

    Hope it helps you.
    Best regards, gbellodi


    Building an Argie 15 in Brazil

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Grosse Pointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    13,952

    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Problem with this thread is that it muddles up latex vs. oil; alkyd enamel vs. polyurethanes, house vs. marine. The chemistry is far more important than the "house paint" label. The marine market is so limited that marine paints are sold and used as house paint. All the chemistries vary in quality, so the "marine" vs. "house" label is more or less meaningless. We use a lot of traditional enamel, rather than polyurethane, due to the problems we have had with the latter. The company that makes the enamel sells most of its "marine" enamel to house painters, since enamel is pretty scarce these days to begin with. As a boat finish, all chemistries have some advantages and some disadvantages. Quality can also be a bit difficult to determine, although the popular marine brands generally are superior, but you don't always get what you pay for.

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    San Francisco Bay
    Posts
    11,687

    Default Re: Marine Paint vs House Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I can understand that perspective. I can also understand the inherent irony in such a purist stance, as if wanting boats that were inexpensive and quick to build is some kind of recent trend.

    It also seems like a simplistic view to me to say that the only "real" wooden boats are carvel or (non-plywood) lapstrake. Yes, there are quick and dirty designs out there, like many of Bolger's, Jim Michalak's, etc. I've enjoyed some of them. They can be built cheaply and quickly, and don't demand a high degree of skill.

    Then there are more sophisticated boats that happen to use plywood and modern glues rather than traditional joinery: Iain Oughtred, my own Alaska beach cruiser, Paul Gartside, etc. This category demands more skill from the builder, and I see them as continuing the tradition of craftsmanship with other materials and techniques.

    As for separate spaces for "real" wooden boats--by which I'm guessing you mean carvel or lapstrake--with no modern techniques or materials allowed, we already have those spaces. They're called "museums."

    Tom
    I'm afraid you're missing the point, Tom. Imagine if this used to be a small, relatively esoteric forum for classical musicians, luthiers, and composers, and, over time, more than three quarters of the posts came to be by people playing jug band music in their garages who were interested in making washtub and broom handle basses and cigar box ukuleles, thought the Stradivarii belonged in museums, and got all defensive about the inferiority of their instruments. It's all music, but it's interesting how it's always the those at the bottom of the food chain who complain about value judgments.

    That said, I doubt WoodenBoat Magazine would exist today if it had not "dumbed down" its content to appeal to a wider audience, but it's like watching Fine Woodworking evolving into Popular Woodworking.
    Last edited by Bob Cleek; 12-07-2018 at 12:59 PM.

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